Black Spindel bug?

After downloading the update yesterday, I noticed something strange in my character's inventory. My Black Spindel, which had previously been fully upgraded, was now showing as only partially upgraded. I inspected the perk tree to see if anything has changed, but it all looked normal. I started swapping perks just to see if any of the nodes were broken. When I changed my scope, something strange happened; 2 of my 3 scopes locked. I was using the scope at the bottom of the tree (for max stability) but now I can't go back to it. The middle and bottom scopes still show up on the tree, but the nodes can't be selected. They look like they're locked, like the nodes on a brand new weapon. I tried dumping some XP into my Spindle to see if I could unlock them again, but no luck.

Anyone else run into this?

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Just joking. I was wondering when the bugs would appear. Hopefully they fix it, because that stability is much needed for the Raid! Especially with this being golgoroth.

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If my Black Spindle had suddenly started apologizing to every enemy I shot, then I'd say you're on to something ;)

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If my Black Spindle had suddenly started apologizing to every enemy I shot, then I'd say you're on to something ;)

https://xkcd.com/873/

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After downloading the update yesterday, I noticed something strange in my character's inventory. My Black Spindel, which had previously been fully upgraded, was now showing as only partially upgraded. I inspected the perk tree to see if anything has changed, but it all looked normal. I started swapping perks just to see if any of the nodes were broken. When I changed my scope, something strange happened; 2 of my 3 scopes locked. I was using the scope at the bottom of the tree (for max stability) but now I can't go back to it. The middle and bottom scopes still show up on the tree, but the nodes can't be selected. They look like they're locked, like the nodes on a brand new weapon. I tried dumping some XP into my Spindle to see if I could unlock them again, but no luck.

Anyone else run into this?

No, but there shouldn't be any scope upgrades on the spindle anymore they should be barrel upgrades right?

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1787 views

After downloading the update yesterday, I noticed something strange in my character's inventory. My Black Spindel, which had previously been fully upgraded, was now showing as only partially upgraded. I inspected the perk tree to see if anything has changed, but it all looked normal. I started swapping perks just to see if any of the nodes were broken. When I changed my scope, something strange happened; 2 of my 3 scopes locked. I was using the scope at the bottom of the tree (for max stability) but now I can't go back to it. The middle and bottom scopes still show up on the tree, but the nodes can't be selected. They look like they're locked, like the nodes on a brand new weapon. I tried dumping some XP into my Spindle to see if I could unlock them again, but no luck.

Anyone else run into this?

No, but there shouldn't be any scope upgrades on the spindle anymore they should be barrel upgrades right?

I didn't pay close enough attention to see if they were scope or barrel upgrades... Whichever they are, I'm locked out of 2 of them :-/

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1745 views

After downloading the update yesterday, I noticed something strange in my character's inventory. My Black Spindel, which had previously been fully upgraded, was now showing as only partially upgraded. I inspected the perk tree to see if anything has changed, but it all looked normal. I started swapping perks just to see if any of the nodes were broken. When I changed my scope, something strange happened; 2 of my 3 scopes locked. I was using the scope at the bottom of the tree (for max stability) but now I can't go back to it. The middle and bottom scopes still show up on the tree, but the nodes can't be selected. They look like they're locked, like the nodes on a brand new weapon. I tried dumping some XP into my Spindle to see if I could unlock them again, but no luck.

Anyone else run into this?

No, but there shouldn't be any scope upgrades on the spindle anymore they should be barrel upgrades right?

I didn't pay close enough attention to see if they were scope or barrel upgrades... Whichever they are, I'm locked out of 2 of them :-/

I had the same issue (they were unfinished upgrades), but motes brought them up to full again. Maybe you just didn't put enough in?

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1758 views

After downloading the update yesterday, I noticed something strange in my character's inventory. My Black Spindel, which had previously been fully upgraded, was now showing as only partially upgraded. I inspected the perk tree to see if anything has changed, but it all looked normal. I started swapping perks just to see if any of the nodes were broken. When I changed my scope, something strange happened; 2 of my 3 scopes locked. I was using the scope at the bottom of the tree (for max stability) but now I can't go back to it. The middle and bottom scopes still show up on the tree, but the nodes can't be selected. They look like they're locked, like the nodes on a brand new weapon. I tried dumping some XP into my Spindle to see if I could unlock them again, but no luck.

Anyone else run into this?

No, but there shouldn't be any scope upgrades on the spindle anymore they should be barrel upgrades right?

I didn't pay close enough attention to see if they were scope or barrel upgrades... Whichever they are, I'm locked out of 2 of them :-/

I had the same issue (they were unfinished upgrades), but motes brought them up to full again. Maybe you just didn't put enough in?

I dropped 15 motes, and the nodes didn't budge. Do you're member roughly how many you used?

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1736 views

After downloading the update yesterday, I noticed something strange in my character's inventory. My Black Spindel, which had previously been fully upgraded, was now showing as only partially upgraded. I inspected the perk tree to see if anything has changed, but it all looked normal. I started swapping perks just to see if any of the nodes were broken. When I changed my scope, something strange happened; 2 of my 3 scopes locked. I was using the scope at the bottom of the tree (for max stability) but now I can't go back to it. The middle and bottom scopes still show up on the tree, but the nodes can't be selected. They look like they're locked, like the nodes on a brand new weapon. I tried dumping some XP into my Spindle to see if I could unlock them again, but no luck.

Anyone else run into this?

No, but there shouldn't be any scope upgrades on the spindle anymore they should be barrel upgrades right?

I didn't pay close enough attention to see if they were scope or barrel upgrades... Whichever they are, I'm locked out of 2 of them :-/

I had the same issue (they were unfinished upgrades), but motes brought them up to full again. Maybe you just didn't put enough in?

I dropped 15 motes, and the nodes didn't budge. Do you're member roughly how many you used?

I think it was about 15. :(

Another suggestion in this thread (that it's caused by you using a scope option that no longer exists) seems like it's more promising. (On the plus side, the top barrel choice is the best, so it's mostly a cosmetic option. ;) )

I say mostly because 'top barrel is the best' is my opinion. ;)

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there is only a defualt scope now. That upgrade tree should only be barrels. Not sure why you'd be locked out though. Mine was fine last night, but i had always used the first scope, so maybe if you had used one of the other scopes its buggy?

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Both armor and weapons across multiple characters did this to me.

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You can fix it by using a few motes. I'm looking at all the bugs that are popping up. Apparently auto rifles got no damage increase, pulse rifles got an absurdly huge decrease in some cases, fusion rifle ads stability was nerfed instead of buffed, raid bugs with the aura, disappearing exotic boots…

What is going on?!

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You can fix it by using a few motes. I'm looking at all the bugs that are popping up. Apparently auto rifles got no damage increase, pulse rifles got an absurdly huge decrease in some cases, fusion rifle ads stability was nerfed instead of buffed, raid bugs with the aura, disappearing exotic boots…

What is going on?!

I'm pretty sure it's called a live system. I'm a software engineer on a live system. It's a bitch to fix things. And I work on a very, very small system compared to what they have to work with.

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I am not trying to be snarky here and this is an honest question for you as a software engineer:

How does a patch, where weapon balancing was a major part, and was supposed to buff auto rifle damage, not actually buff auto rifle damage at all?

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If (false)
{
buffThings();
}

And yes, I am trying to be snarky :)

You noticed in the update how they only modify damage in multiplayer, right? It could be that there are certain game modes where that isn't true (such as PvE). If wires got crossed, or a change wasn't toggled on, this would happen.

*IF* something does happen, and even IF a developer thinks they know exactly what caused it, they can't just run in, fix it, and patch things immediately.

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If (false)
{

More like this:


boolean useNewWeaponUpdates = false;
...
400 lines of code
...
if (useNewWeaponUpdates) {

Yeah, and that's in 200 different files that take a day to compile.

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It's bad form on bungie's part a little, I'm a bit surprised if that is actually the case -- that's a pretty big one to slip through.

Chances are this is a "merge bug" somewhere.

When the features being released, worked on by multiple teams, get merged into a common codebase just before release, there is a possibility of just about anything breaking due to unforseen side effects of changes between the two teams.

So we have things like dragon's breath, which is completely different now. Chances are good that this isn't something that was done by the weapon balancing team. They added a bunch of Y1 exotics in this patch which also changed a bunch of code in this direction. So the likely scenario is that fork A of the codebase was made to do weapons balance changes. Fork B was made to change a bunch of weapons. Forks C, D, E and F were made for supposedly "unrelated to weapons" changes. When release time comes around, all these have to come back under the same roof. Inevitably, code gets changed in overlapping places. Based on how these "conflicts" get resolved is how the code actually behaves going forward.

Regardless of how well you've tested up to that point, there are any number of problems that can cause problems. Making a huge assumption that it was something like this, I'd bet that they had merge conflicts in the codebase that were heavily reviewed and signed off on. However, what looks good by eyeballing the new merged code doesn't take into account feature X, which hasn't changed, but totally relates and changes the behavior of all the merged code. But since it hasn't changed, nobody has tested for that, assuming it has all been tested previously, and a bug slips through.

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Regardless of how well you've tested up to that point, there are any number of problems that can cause problems. Making a huge assumption that it was something like this, I'd bet that they had merge conflicts in the codebase that were heavily reviewed and signed off on. However, what looks good by eyeballing the new merged code doesn't take into account feature X, which hasn't changed, but totally relates and changes the behavior of all the merged code. But since it hasn't changed, nobody has tested for that, assuming it has all been tested previously, and a bug slips through.

I always assumed testing was rigorous. I remember Bungie talking about how back in Halo 3 they had xboxes running all the time taking random inputs looking for ways to break things.

From my friends who ARE programmers (and maybe this is different because they work on software that operates drones to kill people, not games), they basically:

1. Have a list of changes they made or features they added.
2. In testing each one of those is tested and confirmed to be working, and tested in conjunction with other features / conditions.

It kind of baffles me they didn't actually confirm these changes when they released the patch. I understand random bugs popping up, but this is something you KNOW is supposed to be changed!

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I usually give Bungie the benefit of the doubt on these kinds of things. One unsaved change or funny code interaction and bizarre things crop up. But this? This has got to be the third or forth time major updates have come with changes or lack of changes have been wildly out of line with what we were told was supposed to change.

At this point I can't help but wonder if they have some problems with their versioning or deployment process...A good example is what happened recently with the No Backup Plan armor. In a weekly update before The Taken King (I think) they were said to activate Force Barrier on shotgun kills. Later that day the Weekly Update was edited to say they just boosted Force Barrier's duration like they always had. They shipped that way, without the new Shotgun related perk. But then, during the next bug fix, they gained the pervious Force Barrier on Shotgun ability.

Was all that caused by a last minute bug? Poor communication? Or a merging process that is somehow flawed or broken? It gets harder to overlook these type of errors when they keep happening :(

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I usually give Bungie the benefit of the doubt on these kinds of things. One unsaved change or funny code interaction and bizarre things crop up. But this? This has got to be the third or forth time major updates have come with changes or lack of changes have been wildly out of line with what we were told was supposed to change.

At this point I can't help but wonder if they have some problems with their versioning or deployment process...A good example is what happened recently with the No Backup Plan armor. In a weekly update before The Taken King (I think) they were said to activate Force Barrier on shotgun kills. Later that day the Weekly Update was edited to say they just boosted Force Barrier's duration like they always had. They shipped that way, without the new Shotgun related perk. But then, during the next bug fix, they gained the pervious Force Barrier on Shotgun ability.

Was all that caused by a last minute bug? Poor communication? Or a merging process that is somehow flawed or broken? It gets harder to overlook these type of errors when they keep happening :(

I agree. I originally mentioned that I can totally understand the complexity and how something like this could happen. But you are right in that they should at least be getting better at it.

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I read in one of the deep dive articles about how their build system takes many hours (basically overnight) to rebuild the entire game. Depending on scheduling it may not be reasonable to do a full suite of tests between merge and release.

My impression is that they don't have a super mature codebase yet in regards to stability and it's causing problems like this.

And I agree, this is about as bad as it gets for a "weapons update" patch. If true, I haven't seen any proof backing it up (I won't be using auto-rifles anyhow).

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At this point I'd think the priority, especially given the nature of releases planned for 2016, would be to have a team overhaul the game and toolset. There's 8.7 more years of this left… I'm hoping they start fixing the technical stuff really soon. It'll help out both us and the people making the content.

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I read in one of the deep dive articles about how their build system takes many hours (basically overnight) to rebuild the entire game. Depending on scheduling it may not be reasonable to do a full suite of tests between merge and release.

My impression is that they don't have a super mature codebase yet in regards to stability and it's causing problems like this.

And I agree, this is about as bad as it gets for a "weapons update" patch. If true, I haven't seen any proof backing it up (I won't be using auto-rifles anyhow).

This screams merge & deployment process problems to me (too). Possibly an XML file merge problem that wasn't caught.

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- No text -

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I'm looking at all the bugs that are popping up. Apparently auto rifles got no damage increase, pulse rifles got an absurdly huge decrease in some cases, fusion rifle ads stability was nerfed instead of buffed, raid bugs with the aura, disappearing exotic boots…

Given the normal complaint level of online communities, my very first thought when hearing that list is to wonder how many are actually happening because of the update, and how many of them are non-existent but perception causes people to blame the nearest scapegoat, like say a new update.

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I'm looking at all the bugs that are popping up. Apparently auto rifles got no damage increase, pulse rifles got an absurdly huge decrease in some cases, fusion rifle ads stability was nerfed instead of buffed, raid bugs with the aura, disappearing exotic boots…

Given the normal complaint level of online communities, my very first thought when hearing that list is to wonder how many are actually happening because of the update, and how many of them are non-existent but perception causes people to blame the nearest scapegoat, like say a new update.

For auto rifle / pulse damage, it is easy to see unless the displayed numbers are inaccurate. I agree that fusion rifle ADS stability can be more subjective.

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Played a game with it before I noticed, afterward I used motes and maxed it out again. Was annoying, reminded me of my black hammer that wouldn't max out until they patched it. Hope it works for you, that's annoying if not.

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