Not Marathon Infinity... (Gaming)

by cheapLEY , Monday, June 11, 2018, 17:15 (2157 days ago) @ Avateur

I think there may be a third option (probably combined with both of your options, if we're being honest): They didn't just do it because they wanted to and/or because of the internet. We've heard "we're listening to the fans!" plenty of times from them, and plenty of times it's just been talk. BUT THIS TIME, I think they actually legitimately have listened to a lot of feedback (good and bad). I also view this art direction as a decision based on trying to use nostalgia to bring people back. This will be combined along with whatever their plan is to make their story work. I like the new art style, but they still have designs that I hate like that Warthog. There's a compromise going on in what they showed, if you ask me.

But to the meat of your post, when you say that will always be the narrative NOW? What? Now, as in because of this art change? Again, what I'm about to say is NOT me hating on 343. H4 happened. It lost 80% of its population in its first 3 months. That includes casuals and people who never ever post or bitch online. MCC happened. It was literally unplayable online for months, and now after nearly 4 years might FINALLY get fixed. H5's sales and population have not been a thing. They DID fuck up, and it wasn't now. I'm actually stating facts here. 343 HAD to change something for H6, because what they did was not working with the vast majority of gamers, not just the loud minority of haters on the internet. The vast majority of people DID move on when they didn't like something. You might hate the constant hate toward 343 online, but the actual reality of 343's raw data of population numbers and sales is the true driving force here.

My problem isn't that 343i changed their art, or that they're responding to what fans want. I'm glad they did, and I think it's great that they are willing to do so. My problem is maybe just one of semantics. Even that paragraph there is something I take some issue with. The narrative is that they fucked up. I just think that's a shitty way to put it. They didn't fuck up--they just made something some people didn't like (excluding the MCC at this point, because even I'll acknowledge they fucked that up). The narrative is now "343 fucked up, and we made them fix it" rather than "343 made changes we didn't like, and they listened to us to make it better." Is that effectively the same thing? I dunno, maybe.

To some of your other points, how is it happening to Destiny? You talking about grind and power and all that? Destiny still barely has any story, and Bungie's been getting piled on since D1 for it. And the grind/not-grind battle has been an issue back to D1. Also, Bungie has done and said some pretty shady things in D2, so let's not wash over that. Destiny's complications don't really compare to Halo's. I think Destiny's issues with people are less "direction-based" and more execution of mechanics/features. I feel like all of D1's issues and battles are being relitigated in D2, and that's not good.

Destiny's story, for example, has been a pretty complete failure. Its lore, on the other hand, has been fantastic. And it sucks that they couldn't figure out how to reconcile all of that backstory into something great and meaningful within the world we're in right now while playing.

I won't debate any of that. It's the same thing as Halo, where the narrative is "This thing is bad," rather than "I didn't like this thing." Folks just can't accept that they didn't like something, and instead have to say it sucks. I guess that's really the heart of my issue, and maybe that doesn't matter. I guess my problem is the internet outrage machine, and that will probably still be my problem the day I die.

So to tie this back to the top of this post, just think, what if H6 ends up being amazing after bowing to fuckwits and/or population charts and/or nostalgia-dollar-hunts, and what if it leads to a grand revival of Halo going into the future? Even if they have to take a few steps back while moving forward to truly move into a new great era, this could be amazing for them, for Halo, and for you! Right this very second, I'm daring to dream about MCC being fixed and 343 actually proving that they've listened and do care about something. A month or two ago, I quite rudely laughed at the thought of it when Kermit mentioned it. If they can turn their harshest critic around at all, what other critics and fuckwits and whoever else might come back around, too? Halo could have a good future on the way if Infinite works out (and it's going to take more than an art style change to pull it off, like tightening up that writing and testing and honesty).

I hope all that happens. I fully realize that all the folks complaining about Halo will probably have been the ones to bring about the change that makes it truly great again. Just like all the folks complaining about Destiny might be responsible for Forsaken, which looks incredible. I think healthy criticism is great and necessary. I just don't like the way all too many folks express that criticism, and think not liking something makes it automatically bad. I'm always willing to listen to people with actual criticism and points of discussion, but so much of what I see is just "That thing sucks! It used to be better!"