Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here (Destiny)

by petetheduck, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:24 (3769 days ago)
edited by petetheduck, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:54

I'm petetheduck and worst Bungie Day ever.

Bungie, this is garbage, and I'm tired of it. I would rather see Destiny be a Playstation exclusive than have this continual series of disappointments. At least then it would be done and over with. This is another kick in the balls every few weeks, and that's what I have to look forward to for the next decade?

4 Days of Beta?

PlayStation platforms will also include additional exclusive content for Expansion 1 and 2 and will remain exclusive until at least fall of 2015?

I never expected Bungie would be like this to a community that has supported them for a decade. Bungie should, honest to God, be ashamed of themselves.

This isn't beyond Bungie's control--if it's in a contract, they had to sign that contract to be bound by it.

I just don't know how to be a Bungie fan any more. Not when I'm treated like this by them.

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I own a PS4 but will be getting this on XBox

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:25 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I'm petetheduck and worst Bungie Day ever.

Bungie, this is garbage, and I'm tired of it. I would rather see Destiny be a Playstation exclusive than have this continual series of disappointments. At least then it would be done and over with. This is another kick in the balls every few weeks, and that's what I have to look forward to for the next decade?

3 Days of Beta?

PlayStation platforms will also include additional exclusive content for Expansion 1 and 2 and will remain exclusive until at least fall of 2015?

I never expected Bungie would be like this to a community that has supported them for a decade. Bungie should, honest to God, be ashamed of themselves.

This isn't beyond Bungie's control--if it's in a contract, they had to sign that contract to be bound by it.

I just don't know how to be a Bungie fan any more. Not when I'm treated like this by them.

But that doesn't make this any less dissapointing

Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by Phoenix_9286 @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:33 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I'm petetheduck and worst Bungie Day ever.

Here, here. I was excited for today. I was excited for the Beta. Now I'm not.

When I finally had money to afford a new console and Destiny, I wanted to go Xbox. My friends are there, I already have Gold paid for, I know the exclusives, I know the platform, I'd pick up a PS4 eventually for exclusives there.

Is there even a point to me doing that now? Is Destiny on an Xbox even worth thinking about? Because it certainly seems like if I want to have any fun with Destiny beyond the game itself, I need to be on PS4. This is not appealing to me. I'm buying into a platform I'm otherwise not terribly interested in for one game. I'm investing in another yearly subscription to play that game. I'm leaving most of the friends I'd otherwise be playing with behind. I have zero wish to have to maintain two platforms.

These are questions I've been thinking about since we first saw the Xbox One and PS4. The answer has not become any clearer, and if anything, seems even farther away.

I'm upset, disappointed, and depressed about how things are going.

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Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by bluerunner @, Music City, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:34 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

The expansions include story stuff. Surely they wouldn't make that timed exclusive. It would suck to have to avoid the forum because of Playstation players wanting to discuss it. If it's just armor and skins it won't be so bad. Hopefully they clarify this before the Xbox riots start. Better do it quick because I'm in the street and about to flip a car.

hold x to riot

by electricpirate @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:00 (3769 days ago) @ bluerunner

- No text -

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More like: Hold X to Flip Table

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:03 (3769 days ago) @ electricpirate

- No text -

More like: Hold X to generate meaningless internet rage.

by yakaman, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:48 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- No text -

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My logic

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:35 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

On one hand - Destiny is HUGE... no wait... HUGE... no no no Bigger... BIGGER!

HUGE.

So what good is the minuscule DLC.

On the other - The anger is about the principle of this thing. Worse still - Silence. Cold. Dead. Silence. Speaking but saying nothing has only alienated the fanbase you have had 10 years to build (Ie Xbox).

It seems Bungie has chosen to cutting off the nose to spite the face, to grow the PS4 fanbase.

Its always the simple things.

No Ghost Ed. for XB1? "I'm heartbroken" is an understatement

by spidersVise ⌂, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:36 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

Sucks when your favorite game company shafts you. And for what? Money? Guess I know how Mac users felt when Bungie went to Microsoft.

No Ghost Ed. for XB1? "I'm heartbroken" is an understatement

by Phoenix_9286 @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:40 (3769 days ago) @ spidersVise

Sucks when your favorite game company shafts you. And for what? Money? Guess I know how Mac users felt when Bungie went to Microsoft.

http://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Ghost-Xbox-One/dp/B00LH6C6VW/ref=sr_tr_3?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1404754734&am...

You can stop being heartbroken.

No Ghost Ed. for XB1? "I'm heartbroken" is statement

by spidersVise ⌂, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:43 (3769 days ago) @ Phoenix_9286

Thank The Lord it was just an Amazon error. I'm relieved. Still sucks about the beta, though. And the exclusives.

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A roller coaster ride

by breitzen @, Kansas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:38 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I'm feeling torn and conflicted... not what I was expecting on Bungie Day.

• I think they made all the right moves with the 3 limited editions.
• The messaging like "we're treating the beta like a full release launch" doesn't make sense to me for a 6/3 day beta.
• Everyone seems confused about DLC exclusivity... Just tell what's exclusive and for how long. Don't beat aroud the bush, that's bad fan service and bad PR.

The day isn't over yet, so I'm hoping for some more news!

Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by yakaman, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:41 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I just don't know how to be a Bungie fan any more. Not when I'm treated like this by them.

I am so butthurt. Tremendously. This is quickly turning into an issue of principle to me. Even if Destiny is fabulous (and it certainly looks good), I may not be able to buy it. It's been a pretty bad treatment so far, and takes a turn for the worse every couple of weeks.

What in the hell? I'm honestly baffled. And, I'm stupidly hurt. I feel liked a kicked dog.

I am not trying to be melodramatic. I am this close to writing Bungie off. The question is: do they care?

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Oh snap. Shots fired DeeJ

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:44 (3769 days ago) @ yakaman

I am not trying to be melodramatic. I am this close to writing Bungie off. The question is: do they care?

Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by CaneCutter @, Alabama, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:44 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I'm petetheduck and worst Bungie Day ever.

Bungie, this is garbage, and I'm tired of it. I would rather see Destiny be a Playstation exclusive than have this continual series of disappointments. At least then it would be done and over with. This is another kick in the balls every few weeks, and that's what I have to look forward to for the next decade?

3 Days of Beta?

PlayStation platforms will also include additional exclusive content for Expansion 1 and 2 and will remain exclusive until at least fall of 2015?

I never expected Bungie would be like this to a community that has supported them for a decade. Bungie should, honest to God, be ashamed of themselves.

This isn't beyond Bungie's control--if it's in a contract, they had to sign that contract to be bound by it.

I just don't know how to be a Bungie fan any more. Not when I'm treated like this by them.

I'm right there with you, Pete. It really sucks for us Xbox users.

I hate throwing around negativity on a day that should be super awesome for all the fans, but I have to say something about it. First, I want to say how grateful I am to have the opportunity to play the Beta. That truly is an awesome privilege that I don't take for granted. However, the catering to the PS fanbase is getting old. There are probably very good, technical reasons the PS community gets more time, but from the consumer side of this coin, it's hard to see past those extra days and find a reason beyond "You don't love us!". I feel like an afterthought in the community these days because I chose to stay with the Xbox platform.

And I know that in the grand scale of Destiny's life cylce that these few days won't matter. But man does it feel bad right now. The few days of Alpha and extra days of Beta that the PS folks are getting feel like such a [insert something bad].

- CC The deepest hurts in life come from those we love the most. ;_;

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Here's a crazy notion.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, July 07, 2014, 10:59 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

What if the people taking all of these things as a personal affront simply stopped being so entitled?

Bungie entered a contract with Activision. That will entail many wheels and deals that ultimately end up with Bungie owning their IP.

How this affects all the bells and whistles of release is irrelevant. In the end, you'll get the same game. You'll get the same great experience, even if you're missing some stuff for months or a year or whatever. The fact that people are so appalled that *gasp* a company made a deal for money is the kind of ignorance that sets them back into the fields of fanboyism and entitlement. Bungie owns Destiny. If they gave the Xbox the deal of an extra few days instead of Playstation, nobody would be decrying them. Nobody would complain that they were "shafting the other guys". Simply because it's not on the console you preferred doesn't make Bungie evil.

Get over yourselves, it's pretty embarrassing.

The Alpha was four days long. We played the crap out of it. This is only one day less, but its bigger scale means that you won't have time to see all there is, and isn't that a good thing? The sense of wonder and discovery will remain throughout, and the full game will have hundreds of times the content.

Bungie loves their community, even if it needs its diapers changed every once in a while... But you're not inviting conversation with all of this negativity.

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Here's a crazy notion.

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:02 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

The issue for me is that I'm not going to be available during those 3 days. If I had the same opening the PlayStation players have, I'd be fine.

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This is by far the strangest Bungie Day of all time...

by MrPadraig08 ⌂ @, Steel City, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:10 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

People losing their minds, the optimists are jumping ship, martial law is soon to follow, and Korny is the voice of reason and understanding?

What universe have I steeped into?

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This is by far the strangest Bungie Day of all time...

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:12 (3769 days ago) @ MrPadraig08

[image]

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This is by far the strangest Bungie Day of all time...

by bluerunner @, Music City, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:49 (3769 days ago) @ MrPadraig08

It's ok, he made up for it on Facebook.

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he's come a long way.

by MrPadraig08 ⌂ @, Steel City, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:50 (3769 days ago) @ bluerunner

you can only expect so much change from one with a heart so dark and aching to troll

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Huehuehue

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:07 (3769 days ago) @ bluerunner

- No text -

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This is by far the strangest Bungie Day of all time...

by DaDerga, Baile Átha Cliath, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:26 (3769 days ago) @ MrPadraig08

People losing their minds, the optimists are jumping ship, martial law is soon to follow, and Korny is the voice of reason and understanding?

What universe have I steeped into?

The bolded being the signifier here.

Here's a crazy notion.

by petetheduck, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:14 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

Bungie loves their community, even if it needs its diapers changed every once in a while... But you're not inviting conversation with all of this negativity.

Oh, and you're inviting conversation by telling us to get over ourselves? You own a Playstation 4, you played the Alpha, you're getting the full Destiny experience on time, and here you're telling me get over myself?

Expecting equal treatment by a company that you financially supported for a decade isn't entitlement. This isn't about a few days, this is about the ridiculous amount and nature of Playstation timed exclusives. Playstation timed exclusives incorporated into paid DLC? That's a whole new level of insult to Xbox players--I pay for DLC, but don't even get access to all of it?

That should be alarming to the entire freaking industry.

Oh, and writing off the fact that some content could be Playstation exclusive for over a year is laughable. That's an unheard of duration for timed exclusivity.

Bungie is doing all kinds of awful here and you think they love Xbox players. Wow.

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Here's a crazy notion.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:25 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

Yeah. Paying the same amount and getting less, even if that less is only for a while, is not good. Worse for me is how none of this is said up front. You want me to pay for a game but I don't even know how much I am or am not buying for the Xbox versions now. The surprise Alpha was also pretty bad because all the marketing was emphasizing the Beta. Then I get to learn the day of that I, a very loyal fan, who's going to pay the same money as anyone else get to sit around and watch streams because I made the wrong choice because nobody told me there was a wrong choice. I can't make major purchasing decisions based on vague hints or half delivered exclusivity announcements where I'm told that there is exclusivity but not told what it is. :/

What I want is equality. We all pay the same price we all get the same thing at the same time.
What I'd settle for is clear, up front communications. Something we are very much not getting right now.

Here's a crazy notion.

by petetheduck, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:36 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Yeah. Paying the same amount and getting less, even if that less is only for a while, is not good. Worse for me is how none of this is said up front. You want me to pay for a game but I don't even know how much I am or am not buying for the Xbox versions now. The surprise Alpha was also pretty bad because all the marketing was emphasizing the Beta. Then I get to learn the day of that I, a very loyal fan, who's going to pay the same money as anyone else get to sit around and watch streams because I made the wrong choice because nobody told me there was a wrong choice. I can't make major purchasing decisions based on vague hints or half delivered exclusivity announcements where I'm told that there is exclusivity but not told what it is. :/

What I want is equality. We all pay the same price we all get the same thing at the same time.
What I'd settle for is clear, up front communications. Something we are very much not getting right now.

Very well put, I completely agree. This feels like Bungie has been deliberately misleading to its community this entire time.

Jason Jones telling me the Playstation 4 is a great piece of gear was not sufficient indication of what has come to be.

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Here's a crazy notion.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 22:03 (3767 days ago) @ petetheduck

Very well put, I completely agree. This feels like Bungie has been deliberately misleading to its community this entire time.

Dude. A year ago Bungie flat out said that the PS4 was the best platform for Destiny, AND they said that the PS4 would get exclusive playable game content. It was as true then as it is now. They were very clear, because this did not surprise me one bit.

News of the extra beta time for PS4 owners is months old.

It may be shitty, but Bungie hasn't been deceptive at all. You all need to be mad at the shittiness of it, not mad over being deceived, or betrayed or whatever.

Here's a crazy notion.

by petetheduck, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 06:01 (3766 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Very well put, I completely agree. This feels like Bungie has been deliberately misleading to its community this entire time.


Dude. A year ago Bungie flat out said that the PS4 was the best platform for Destiny, AND they said that the PS4 would get exclusive playable game content. It was as true then as it is now. They were very clear, because this did not surprise me one bit.

News of the extra beta time for PS4 owners is months old.

It may be shitty, but Bungie hasn't been deceptive at all. You all need to be mad at the shittiness of it, not mad over being deceived, or betrayed or whatever.

It's not the existence of it, it's the extent of it, and that wasn't revealed. You can say you're going to have some exclusive content, but man, it turns out that Bungie has really gone all out, and even planned exclusive content beyond launch.

A question I posed in the thread DeeJ started--will we get a date on when the exclusive content expires before September 9th?

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Entitlement.

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Monday, July 07, 2014, 18:51 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

Bungie loves their community, even if it needs its diapers changed every once in a while... But you're not inviting conversation with all of this negativity.


Oh, and you're inviting conversation by telling us to get over ourselves? You own a Playstation 4, you played the Alpha, you're getting the full Destiny experience on time, and here you're telling me get over myself?

Expecting equal treatment by a company that you financially supported for a decade isn't entitlement.

Yes, it is. It is the very definition of entitlement.

Those financial transactions were quid pro quo-- you gave them money, they gave you games. If you were smart, you bought those games for platforms you owned so you could play them.

No past financial transaction for any game made then for a platform you owned then has any bearing whatsoever on whatever games Bungie chooses to make now and sell now for platforms you may or may not own.

To expect otherwise is entitlement. We are not Bungie shareholders. We are not Bungie investors. We are not Bungie employees.

Those transactions were not loans. They were not charitable donations. They were not purchases of shares. They were purchases of games.

We are Bungie fans. If you're having your metal bent by the idea of Bungie making a game for a platform you don't own and don't intend to own-- and that is NOT the case here since Destiny is not an exclusive-- then what you're really saying is that your fandom was-- is-- contingent on what platform Bungie offers its games on.

Can't afford or justify the purchase of a PS4? Too bad. I can't either, I'll be playing Destiny on my Xbox 360 like a lot of people, but I don't expect special treatment because of other games I used to play, or even treatment equal to those who are buying a new console-- since when does anybody get that?

Too expensive? Perhaps. It's an expensive hobby.

Do you remember a time when to get the best experience out of a Bungie game you had to buy a new $2000 computer? Because I do.

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Entitlement.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:05 (3769 days ago) @ narcogen


Do you remember a time when to get the best experience out of a Bungie game you had to buy a new $2000 computer? Because I do.

Heh. That's precisely why I bought my Power Mac 7100.

Great post.

Entitlement.

by Avateur @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:13 (3769 days ago) @ narcogen
edited by Avateur, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:27

While I agree with the economics logic of your post, I almost wonder if you read pete's post. I'm taking his anger to be strictly about the Beta and DLC. First of all, he's spot on with the DLC. If he paid for the game, the DLC is either on the disc or an included feature for download, but he's not allowed to access or play the content he paid for for nearly a year (if that turns out to be true), that's obnoxious as all hell. It's obnoxious when EA does it or anyone does it. He paid for it. It's his. Let him play it.

Second, the Beta. Entitlement? He's not demanding special treatment. He's not demanding Bungie give him something that others don't have. He's not demanding some special perks for Xbox owners that Playstation owners don't get. The Beta is free, give or take a pre-order. He's mad because there's no equal footing. It could easily be open just as long for both consoles, and it costs Bungie nothing. Yes, contracts, I know. They could even shut down the Sony Beta on the 27th and let the Xbox Beta run a bit longer to create an even time period. Sony gets it first, Microsoft gets to end with it. Probably a contract loophole that allows that (or not, I don't work there lol). But nah.

This isn't about what console he can or cannot buy. If he wanted to, he could. He's not talking price. He's talking time. He's allowed to be upset. He's allowed to express his anger without being told to get over himself (you haven't done that, and I really liked your post as a whole). This thread is a lovely poster child of, yet again, people who feel entitled to belittle, disregard, and shame people who get upset at something, but it's A-okay to go irrationally berzerk in praise or something else (so long as it's "positive" and "agreed with").

Note: I have not provided a single opinion of where I personally stand on any of this Bungie Day stuff (aside from DLC). Just trying to state what I think pete is getting at, and how I don't necessarily view that as "entitlement" in this case.

Here's a crazy notion.

by yakaman, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:33 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

What if the people taking all of these things as a personal affront simply stopped being so entitled?

Get over yourselves, it's pretty embarrassing.

Bungie loves their community, even if it needs its diapers changed every once in a while... But you're not inviting conversation with all of this negativity.

Ah, well. 'Entitled' kinda assumes that one is expecting to get more than what others normally get. I'm simply confused by getting less - significantly less - even though I'd like to purchase the same product that a PS owner is purchasing.

I honest-to-god want to be super excited for this awesome new sci-fi IP, but at every turn Bungie's telling me that I'm not as valued as, say, you are.

Korny (PS) > Yakaman (XB)

Yes - it hurts.

Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by CrazedOne, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:03 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I gotta say, and maybe its just the first time Im noticing a game do it, but I've never seen a cross platform game give so much attention to just one system. Usually if theres exclusive content across platforms its pretty even. But this is just ridiculous.

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I know of one

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:21 (3769 days ago) @ CrazedOne

I gotta say, and maybe its just the first time Im noticing a game do it, but I've never seen a cross platform game give so much attention to just one system. Usually if theres exclusive content across platforms its pretty even. But this is just ridiculous.

Call of Duty (also published by Activision I have to point out) has VERY similar exclusivity deals with Xbox.

I know of one

by petetheduck, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:24 (3769 days ago) @ Xenos

Nevin Douglas is over on Twitter thinking out loud about how this could be the future of exclusive games.

As in, instead of black and white, yes or no exclusivity, there will be substantial favoritism towards one console instead of the other, but the basic experience will be available on multiple platforms in order for the developer and publisher to get more profit than they could by limiting themselves to one platform.

That seems like an accurate description of what is happening here.

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Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:06 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

This isn't beyond Bungie's control--if it's in a contract, they had to sign that contract to be bound by it.

But if those were the circumstances, could they have found a publisher who would have been willing to fund Destiny but not pull shenanigans?

I agree that this is incredibly stupid, but people are acting like Jason Jones shot their dog. We know little about the circumstances.

//=================

That having been said, I also don't mind the existence of some kind of outcry; it should happen. In a perfect world, the protesting internet communities would get together and organize an actual massive-scale cancelling of preorders, but as that's unlikely to happen, we can all sit tight and deal with more dumb shit. Yay.

Vote with your dollars

by Kalamari @, Waiting for Ghorn, FB, and BH, Monday, July 07, 2014, 11:54 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

If you don't like these trends, spend your hard earned money elsewhere. The mentality of AAA games production is becoming less and less consumer friendly over time, when are you going to do something about it? Now? Or later on when these practices are so ubiquitous that any protestation would have no effect whatsoever?

Frankly, all this DLC nonsense makes me want to skip Destiny altogether, the competitive multiplayer doesn't seem competitive at all, the dlc garbage, the loot grind, player investment, etc. It seems like a really good, fool-around-with-your-friends-type game, but there are far better games for that sort of thing.

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Vote with your dollars

by breitzen @, Kansas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:15 (3769 days ago) @ Kalamari

If it comes down to it, sure I will. But I'm trying to avoid that. Imagine if it worked, Destiny sold poorly, Acivision dropped out of the 10 year contract and Destiny 2 never gets made. Bungie has to lay off 1/2 of its employees or just dissolves altogether. Is that a success for anyone!? Who wins in that senario?

I'll fight tooth and nail to try and get Destiny to a place where I can buy it and feel good about it. I don't participate in threads that I don't care about. I freakin love Bungie, and you fight for the things you love. I want Destiny to be great anyplace I can play it, so as the consumer I'll push as hard as I can to see it get there.

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Vote with your dollars

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:28 (3769 days ago) @ breitzen

Future gamers win.

Even Apple which is secretive as hell tells me what I'm buying when they ask for my money. With Xbox Destiny I honestly don't know what I'm paying for at this point. So far preordering on Xbox has bought me something around a week less prerelease playtime and will prevent me from playing an unknown amount of content across a game and two DLCs for an unknow amount of time. I don't even know for sure that all the exclusives are timed because all I have to go on are hidden astricks buried in promotional ads!

Solid, upfront, complete information. That's all I really want.

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Me too bro. Me too.

by breitzen @, Kansas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:44 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- No text -

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Vote with your dollars

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 14:25 (3769 days ago) @ breitzen

If it comes down to it, sure I will. But I'm trying to avoid that. Imagine if it worked, Destiny sold poorly, Acivision dropped out of the 10 year contract and Destiny 2 never gets made. Bungie has to lay off 1/2 of its employees or just dissolves altogether. Is that a success for anyone!? Who wins in that senario?

the consumer wins, b/c it sends a message to all the other studios that people won't put up with that crap.

Buying a product b/c you are scared of not getting future products is a win for the studio, not the consumer.

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Vote with your dollars

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 17:48 (3767 days ago) @ Kalamari

Frankly, all this DLC nonsense makes me want to skip Destiny altogether, the competitive multiplayer doesn't seem competitive at all, the dlc garbage, the loot grind, player investment, etc. It seems like a really good, fool-around-with-your-friends-type game, but there are far better games for that sort of thing.

I'm with you man, I have a lot of questions, which I'm sure the beta will speak to.

The Alpha was a blast, however it was a tiny slice.

How will the MMO elements and investment system fare? Hoping the beta reveals this. If it turns out to really suck the life out of the game, you can do what I'll do and just play until you stop enjoying it, not buy the DLC, and move on. However if it turns out to be awesome, well then even better.

I could have paid 60 bucks for the alpha and gotten my money's worth, so the final game is a no brainer even if a lot of the content doesn't appeal to me.

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Worst Bungie day ever.

by car15, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:16 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I am very disappointed. My worst fears about the direction Bungie has chosen to go have been confirmed. Strictly speaking, I can no longer call myself a Bungie supporter. This is one troubling development too many.

I'm still intrigued by Destiny, of course, but the game will no longer be an automatic pre-order for me. In my mind, Bungie's product must now compete on the same playing field as everyone else's.

Bungie, if you want me back, you're going to have to do some work. Ball's in your court. Take it or leave it.

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Worst Bungie day ever.

by Schooly D, TSD Gaming Condo, TX, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:17 (3769 days ago) @ car15

Bungie, if you want me back, you're going to have to do some work. Ball's in your court. Take it or leave it.

Meanwhile, at Bungie

Worst Bungie day ever.

by yakaman, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:46 (3769 days ago) @ Schooly D

Bungie, if you want me back, you're going to have to do some work. Ball's in your court. Take it or leave it.


Meanwhile, at Bungie

Goddammit. Like I said, they'll laugh until they cry, and wipe their tears with $100 bills.

My $60 boycott, a mote in God's eye. Or in this case, Bungie's.

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Worst Bungie day ever.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 19:12 (3768 days ago) @ Schooly D

Bungie, if you want me back, you're going to have to do some work. Ball's in your court. Take it or leave it.


Meanwhile, at Bungie

The correct gif would have been Woody Harrelson crying, and wiping his tears away with a stack of bills.

[image]

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I think this is ALWAYS the correct gif, isn't it?

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 22:53 (3768 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Worst Bungie day ever.

by Grizzlei ⌂ @, Pacific Cloud Zone, Earth, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:32 (3769 days ago) @ car15

I am very disappointed. My worst fears about the direction Bungie has chosen to go have been confirmed. Strictly speaking, I can no longer call myself a Bungie supporter. This is one troubling development too many.

While I can understand your frustrations, I don't really think Bungie is all that responsible for this beyond advertising their own game. If anyone was to blame, it would be Activision, Destiny's publisher and main advertiser.

Worst Bungie day ever.

by yakaman, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:42 (3769 days ago) @ Grizzlei

While I can understand your frustrations, I don't really think Bungie is all that responsible for this beyond advertising their own game. If anyone was to blame, it would be Activision, Destiny's publisher and main advertiser.

Except, Bungie chose Activision. They freed themselves of Microsoft's yolk, and then immediately submitted to Activision's.

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Worst Bungie day ever.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:29 (3769 days ago) @ yakaman

While I can understand your frustrations, I don't really think Bungie is all that responsible for this beyond advertising their own game. If anyone was to blame, it would be Activision, Destiny's publisher and main advertiser.


Except, Bungie chose Activision. They freed themselves of Microsoft's yolk, and then immediately submitted to Activision's.


Because this thing we're excited for, because it's bigger and more ambitious than anything ever had to be paid for by somebody, and that somebody is putting an effort into expanding a previously untapped market. Knock me over with a feather.

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Best option at the time

by RC ⌂, UK, Monday, July 07, 2014, 16:03 (3769 days ago) @ yakaman

While I can understand your frustrations, I don't really think Bungie is all that responsible for this beyond advertising their own game. If anyone was to blame, it would be Activision, Destiny's publisher and main advertiser.


Except, Bungie chose Activision. They freed themselves of Microsoft's yolk, and then immediately submitted to Activision's.

MS wouldn't have allowed it on any platform but Xbox. Not a win for Bungie or players.

Activision's money comes with fewer restrictions (biggest one being ownership of the IP) and I'm pretty damn sure Bungie shopped around but there aren't that many options at the kind of scale Bungie wanted/needed.

You think EA would have been better? Don't make me... cry.

/poor DICE

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Best option at the time

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 17:51 (3767 days ago) @ RC

Except, Bungie chose Activision. They freed themselves of Microsoft's yolk, and then immediately submitted to Activision's.


MS wouldn't have allowed it on any platform but Xbox. Not a win for Bungie or players.

Activision's money comes with fewer restrictions (biggest one being ownership of the IP) and I'm pretty damn sure Bungie shopped around but there aren't that many options at the kind of scale Bungie wanted/needed.

You think EA would have been better? Don't make me... cry.

/poor DICE

Why not go to Valve?

Worst Bungie day ever.

by Phoenix_9286 @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:45 (3769 days ago) @ Grizzlei

While I can understand your frustrations, I don't really think Bungie is all that responsible for this beyond advertising their own game. If anyone was to blame, it would be Activision, Destiny's publisher and main advertiser.

Admittedly I have to keep reminding myself of that fact. I think the problem is Activision is neigh invisible when all of this is presented. It comes from Bungie's mouth, on Bungie's website, with no sign anyone else was involved. It makes it all too easy to point the finger at Bungie and not Activision. Assuming this is the case of course. It'd be nice to have a better idea wtf is going on behind the scenes.

That doesn't make any of this suck any less, however.

Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by DEEP_NNN, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:32 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

Sounds disappointing. I too feel kind of jilted. I guess when Jason Jones waxed poetic about Publishers staying out of his face and just let him make a game, he didn't know what he was in for.

That being said, I have to give a nod to Bungie and tryout the game. I have no intention of pre-investing or over-investing in the game. I'm not taking any chances beyond the initial basic retail download.

Everything I buy after that will be more my responsibility than theirs.

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How does this keep getting worse?

by katancik ⌂ @, Portland, OR/ University of Texas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:32 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck
edited by katancik, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:41

All of this exclusive content really matters to the hardcore fans that have been watching this game since 2010. It's completely ridiculous to me that a hardcore fan of something physically cannot get the full version of a game anymore simply because of what console they own and what retailer they buy it from.

I simply want to have the downloadable game on xbox one. As a consumer, in order to get this "limited" and "going quickly" beta code I had to preorder and cancel on Amazon. Get a code. Type it in on Bungie's website and wait until some ambiguous time in the future to play for an ambiguous about of time. Hardly a customer-friendly experience.

And now since I have an xbox, I have less access, less content, and now even the DLC I pay for is worth less? All because I like the features and have long-time friends on one system and not the other. It's not even rewarding Playstation players for owning a playstation. It's punishing xbox owners for not owning a playstation.

It's become impossible for a hardcore fan to play the game how they want to without having to give something up in the process.

"...we walked uphill in the snow both ways..."

by Jabberwok, Monday, July 07, 2014, 12:50 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I don't mean to be this kind of person, but imagine how some of us felt back around 2000 when Bungie, the Mac developer (who also ported to PC), was bought by Microsoft and announced Halo would ONLY appear on Xbox. I bought a brand new Xbox when it was released by borrowing the money from a friend, something I never would have done otherwise. Now Bungie is able to branch out for the first time in over a decade, and I have to say that I don't have much sympathy for upset Xbox owners, even though I own two of them myself.

Bungie is not Xbox, the two things are not parts of the same whole. If you feel betrayed for some reason, you're certainly entitled to voice it, but things could be worse, and things WERE worse, so I don't see what the big deal is. I assume you have a 360, so you can play this game without buying any new hardware if you don't want to, whether it's an Xbox, a Playstation, or even just a better graphics card for your computer. Stand back and ask how much you really have to complain about.

So what I really mean to say is: "Why, back in MY day...."

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"...we walked uphill in the snow both ways..."

by breitzen @, Kansas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:01 (3769 days ago) @ Jabberwok

But by that reasoning Bungie is not Playstation either, yet it kinda feels like they're in bed together. I'm grateful that Destiny is releasing on the xbox platform. The big difference is that Playstation doesn't own Bungie like Microsoft did when they made Halo.

"...we walked uphill in the snow both ways..."

by Jabberwok, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:15 (3769 days ago) @ breitzen

But by that reasoning Bungie is not Playstation either, yet it kinda feels like they're in bed together. I'm grateful that Destiny is releasing on the xbox platform. The big difference is that Playstation doesn't own Bungie like Microsoft did when they made Halo.

And if Sony owned them, Destiny would be a Playstation exclusive, which is not what is happening. I don't doubt there are always deals at work, and exclusive content is the way both console companies are remaining competitive when it comes to cross-platform games. I guess I'm just not that worried about it. It seems pretty cool that a nextgen title like this one is still going to be available for the system I already own. Beyond that it's just bells and whistles that aren't that important in the scheme of things. Frankly, it makes sense for Bungie to court the side of the market that has probably never even played a Bungie game. Seems like Sony got the jump on it anyway, so maybe there will be other options for Xbox later on.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:22 (3769 days ago) @ Jabberwok

I find this thread extremely disappointing.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by car15, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:35 (3769 days ago) @ Kermit
edited by car15, Monday, July 07, 2014, 14:06

The exclusives don't bother me. It's the lackadaisical way Bungie has gone about announcing them that does.

If Bungie wants to fellate Sony, that's fine with me, but they should have been up front with their fan base from the beginning instead of saving these exclusivity announcements for big reveals months away from launch. I already bought an Xbox One thinking that I would be able to play the same content as PS4 owners. I'm only now finding out that won't actually be the case. That's not fair to me as a customer when I've already made an investment in Microsoft's system.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Jabberwok, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 01:32 (3769 days ago) @ car15

The exclusives don't bother me. It's the lackadaisical way Bungie has gone about announcing them that does.

If Bungie wants to fellate Sony, that's fine with me, but they should have been up front with their fan base from the beginning instead of saving these exclusivity announcements for big reveals months away from launch. I already bought an Xbox One thinking that I would be able to play the same content as PS4 owners. I'm only now finding out that won't actually be the case. That's not fair to me as a customer when I've already made an investment in Microsoft's system.

First off, I think your fellatio metaphor waayy overstates what is actually happening here.

Second, I agree about transparency. That's the one thing that I miss from Bungie, but it seems that a part of their current deal, and maybe just their position near the top of the industry, is that they have less control than ever over what information they can release to us and when. It seems to be a sad reality of the way most or all AAA developers have to do things. When you have two consoles made by unbelievably massive corporations whose products may sink or float depending on what information is released about a certain video game, I don't think there is much to be done about it.

You can't make a deal that involves this much cash without dealing with some variety of devil, IMO.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:40 (3769 days ago) @ Kermit

I find this thread extremely disappointing.

I agree. Two weeks ago, it was "Xbox has to wait a year for exclusive content, and PS4 gets more days for Beta? No big deal, the game is huge, and there'll be tons to do until then."

Now it's "ONLY FIVE DAYS OF BETA? BUNGIE YOU JUDAS WHY I HATE YOU"...

Like I said elsewhere, all of this blind ranting and raving is not conducive to any positive development. In the end, most, if not all of the people raging here will buy Destiny anyway, and they'll love it, without complaining about the politics of exclusive content or lamenting whatever skins or armor they don't have while they play. Why not appreciate that you even get any days with the Beta, since they didn't have to make it available for all platforms, but they're doing it anyway. Like I said, this is a fan base built up on Xbox, and Bungie remains supportive of Xbox. Exclusive content is only a big deal because you want what others have. "I want equality" people say, but if the Xbox was getting the exclusive content, you wouldn't hear anyone say a word about equality. It would be all "yeah Xbox is better!"

So there's that. Let's all take a breath and calm down... Until Cody gets here.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:51 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

I find this thread extremely disappointing.


I agree. Two weeks ago, it was "Xbox has to wait a year for exclusive content, and PS4 gets more days for Beta? No big deal, the game is huge, and there'll be tons to do until then."

Now it's "ONLY FIVE DAYS OF BETA? BUNGIE YOU JUDAS WHY I HATE YOU"...

Like I said elsewhere, all of this blind ranting and raving is not conducive to any positive development. In the end, most, if not all of the people raging here will buy Destiny anyway, and they'll love it, without complaining about the politics of exclusive content or lamenting whatever skins or armor they don't have while they play. Why not appreciate that you even get any days with the Beta, since they didn't have to make it available for all platforms, but they're doing it anyway. Like I said, this is a fan base built up on Xbox, and Bungie remains supportive of Xbox. Exclusive content is only a big deal because you want what others have. "I want equality" people say, but if the Xbox was getting the exclusive content, you wouldn't hear anyone say a word about equality. It would be all "yeah Xbox is better!"

So there's that. Let's all take a breath and calm down... Until Cody gets here.

Or it makes it so when I, someone who owns a PS4, has to explain to my XBox friends why we are going to get a lesser experience

I have both and think this is BS

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Also, as a longtime Mac gamer.

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:52 (3769 days ago) @ kidtsunami

I find this thread extremely disappointing.


I agree. Two weeks ago, it was "Xbox has to wait a year for exclusive content, and PS4 gets more days for Beta? No big deal, the game is huge, and there'll be tons to do until then."

Now it's "ONLY FIVE DAYS OF BETA? BUNGIE YOU JUDAS WHY I HATE YOU"...

Like I said elsewhere, all of this blind ranting and raving is not conducive to any positive development. In the end, most, if not all of the people raging here will buy Destiny anyway, and they'll love it, without complaining about the politics of exclusive content or lamenting whatever skins or armor they don't have while they play. Why not appreciate that you even get any days with the Beta, since they didn't have to make it available for all platforms, but they're doing it anyway. Like I said, this is a fan base built up on Xbox, and Bungie remains supportive of Xbox. Exclusive content is only a big deal because you want what others have. "I want equality" people say, but if the Xbox was getting the exclusive content, you wouldn't hear anyone say a word about equality. It would be all "yeah Xbox is better!"

So there's that. Let's all take a breath and calm down... Until Cody gets here.


Or it makes it so when I, someone who owns a PS4, has to explain to my XBox friends why we are going to get a lesser experience

I have both and think this is BS

NOT THE SAME

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Also, as a longtime Mac gamer.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Monday, July 07, 2014, 17:56 (3769 days ago) @ kidtsunami

Yeah it's actually better. We weren't even sure we were GETTING Halo after we were promised it, not to mention we were pretty sure (correctly) we wouldn't get any sequels. And when we DID get Halo we got a mediocre port by a third part developer with limited support. In this situation Xbox users get the full game with all the DLC for our console by Bungie that I am 99.9% positive will play just as well (minor graphical differences excepted) as the PS4 version. The worst part is we don't get the same experience immediately, but this game looks to be so huge it is a drop in the bucket. As far as the beta and alpha? That is disappointing, but doesn't have an impact on the final game. PS4/PS3 users get a total of 6-8 extra days over the lifetime of the game which you can literally play as long as they have servers for the game.

Not saying we can't be upset about the situation, but let's call it what it is.

Of course it's not the same, that is the whole point...

by Jabberwok, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 07:16 (3768 days ago) @ kidtsunami

This is much, much, much less bad.

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Of course it's not the same, that is the whole point...

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 10:26 (3768 days ago) @ Jabberwok

This is much, much, much less bad.

I think it's just... different.

In the end I will not care that much, however when Halo came to XBox, I knew the one place to get the best Halo experience and play with my friends, XBox.

Now I'm sitting here with a PS4 and thinking, yeah the best Destiny experience will be on this console, however my friends and I will play on the XB1, so I'll settle for that, because playing with friends will always trump whatever "exclusives" PS4 will get. We'll just all have a slightly bitter taste in our mouth as we play.

Frankly, this all probably would have gone over a lot smoother if it didn't drop on Bungie Day of all days.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:53 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

I find this thread extremely disappointing.


I agree. Two weeks ago, it was "Xbox has to wait a year for exclusive content, and PS4 gets more days for Beta? No big deal, the game is huge, and there'll be tons to do until then."

Now it's "ONLY FIVE DAYS OF BETA? BUNGIE YOU JUDAS WHY I HATE YOU"...

Like I said elsewhere, all of this blind ranting and raving is not conducive to any positive development. In the end, most, if not all of the people raging here will buy Destiny anyway, and they'll love it, without complaining about the politics of exclusive content or lamenting whatever skins or armor they don't have while they play. Why not appreciate that you even get any days with the Beta, since they didn't have to make it available for all platforms, but they're doing it anyway. Like I said, this is a fan base built up on Xbox, and Bungie remains supportive of Xbox. Exclusive content is only a big deal because you want what others have. "I want equality" people say, but if the Xbox was getting the exclusive content, you wouldn't hear anyone say a word about equality. It would be all "yeah Xbox is better!"

So there's that. Let's all take a breath and calm down... Until Cody gets here.

So wanting equality is wrong? Wanting the same content at the same time for the same amount of money is wrong? Yes, there's a lot of impotent internet rage here, but there are also legitimate complaints. Increasingly complicated versions of exclusivity is a real and growing problem. A lack of good communication from the industry to its customers is a real problem. Ignoring these problems is in no way " being reasonable."

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:10 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I find this thread extremely disappointing.


I agree. Two weeks ago, it was "Xbox has to wait a year for exclusive content, and PS4 gets more days for Beta? No big deal, the game is huge, and there'll be tons to do until then."

Now it's "ONLY FIVE DAYS OF BETA? BUNGIE YOU JUDAS WHY I HATE YOU"...

Like I said elsewhere, all of this blind ranting and raving is not conducive to any positive development. In the end, most, if not all of the people raging here will buy Destiny anyway, and they'll love it, without complaining about the politics of exclusive content or lamenting whatever skins or armor they don't have while they play. Why not appreciate that you even get any days with the Beta, since they didn't have to make it available for all platforms, but they're doing it anyway. Like I said, this is a fan base built up on Xbox, and Bungie remains supportive of Xbox. Exclusive content is only a big deal because you want what others have. "I want equality" people say, but if the Xbox was getting the exclusive content, you wouldn't hear anyone say a word about equality. It would be all "yeah Xbox is better!"

So there's that. Let's all take a breath and calm down... Until Cody gets here.


So wanting equality is wrong? Wanting the same content at the same time for the same amount of money is wrong? Yes, there's a lot of impotent internet rage here, but there are also legitimate complaints. Increasingly complicated versions of exclusivity is a real and growing problem. A lack of good communication from the industry to its customers is a real problem. Ignoring these problems is in no way " being reasonable."

I say we stop waving that equality word around like it's some sort of constitutional right for everybody to have something like a red stripe on our scooter in the video game. Is the game or DLC or whatever still worth the price you're paying? If not, don't buy it. New customer discounts and perks have existed since forever.

Timed-exclusive content has existed for a while now, while the price of games on each platform have remained about the same. Caveat emptor. If this content weren't effective in influencing buying decisions, it wouldn't exist. Bungie is the business of making games. Those games have to sell for them to continue to do this. This is one way games are sold. Wail on Bungie all you want, but this is the business they're in.

What else bugs me is that we know next to nothing about the nature of the content in question, which could be shoulder pads, insignias, or guns that are no better than any gun included in every version sold and yet so many are screaming like somebody took their blankie. They don't even know what the blankie looks like.

Bah.

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And for the first time in a long time...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:17 (3769 days ago) @ Kermit

I say we stop waving that equality word around like it's some sort of constitutional right for everybody to have something like a red stripe on our scooter in the video game. Is the game or DLC or whatever still worth the price you're paying? If not, don't buy it. New customer discounts and perks have existed since forever.

Timed-exclusive content has existed for a while now, while the price of games on each platform have remained about the same. Caveat emptor. If this content weren't effective in influencing buying decisions, it wouldn't exist. Bungie is the business of making games. Those games have to sell for them to continue to do this. This is one way games are sold. Wail on Bungie all you want, but this is the business they're in.

What else bugs me is that we know next to nothing about the nature of the content in question, which could be shoulder pads, insignias, or guns that are no better than any gun included in every version sold and yet so many are screaming like somebody took their blankie. They don't even know what the blankie looks like.

Bah.

Kermit and Korny's two old souls were in perfect harmony...

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:25 (3769 days ago) @ Kermit

I say we stop waving that equality word around like it's some sort of constitutional right for everybody to have something like a red stripe on our scooter in the video game. Is the game or DLC or whatever still worth the price you're paying? If not, don't buy it. New customer discounts and perks have existed since forever.

I was waving it around as in: "the state of being equal." Making it more than that is just silly. If you want to pick a battle, quibbling over my use of the word equality isn't really a good choice.


Timed-exclusive content has existed for a while now, while the price of games on each platform have remained about the same. Caveat emptor. If this content weren't effective in influencing buying decisions, it wouldn't exist. Bungie is the business of making games. Those games have to sell for them to continue to do this. This is one way games are sold. Wail on Bungie all you want, but this is the business they're in.

But the game would sell either way, wouldn't it? Is anybody actually buying Destiny because of a red stripped scooter? Certainly nobody bought a PS4 for the Alpha, because they didn't know to do so. I love the neat collector's content coming with Destiny. It looks awesome. To me, that's a worthy thing for developers to make to try to attract sales. Someone pays more, they get more. That's cool. What I don't like is paying the same and getting less.

Yeah, it's just a video game. Sure, it might just be an ugly pain scheme (I've had that happen to me before... ugly DLC content that I kinda wished I DIDN'T get) but being left out does matter to people. I don't think that should just be dismissed.


What else bugs me is that we know next to nothing about the nature of the content in question, which could be shoulder pads, insignias, or guns that are no better than any gun included in every version sold and yet so many are screaming like somebody took their blankie. They don't even know what the blankie looks like.

But isn't that a problem in itself? We're being asked to decide where to spend money without even being given details on what we are or aren't buying. Just simple things like how long the timed exclusives last is still in question.


Bah.

Indeed. That we can agree on! :)

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Actually...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:33 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Certainly nobody bought a PS4 for the Alpha...

Umm... I know one DBOer who would disagree with that statement...

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Actually...

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:36 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

Heh. :)

Ok, maybe someone rushed out and did... but I'd find it very hard to believe that the Alpha caused some kind of massive PS4 sales gain or a noticeable rise in preorders. Most of us, I bet, sat there and said, "Oh... which I known that sooner..."

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Actually...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:57 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Heh. :)

Ok, maybe someone rushed out and did... but I'd find it very hard to believe that the Alpha caused some kind of massive PS4 sales gain or a noticeable rise in preorders. Most of us, I bet, sat there and said, "Oh... which I known that sooner..."

Personally, I was very hesitant and cynical towards Destiny, especially in the days before the Alpha. But after one day with it, I slapped down for the full digital download, and once the Alpha ended, I began to count the days until the Beta.

So I think the Alpha did sway a number of people towards a purchase. As you can see from around here, watching the Alpha may have been tedious, but Stephen Laughlin and I spent almost an hour in one single spot trying to get out of the map, and I wasn't bored at all. It felt like the good ol' days.

I think that's the point of the multiplat Beta: It's not to test anything significant, it's to get the word out that this game is actually really darn fun to play, and we're just going to get a small taste of what's in store.

Exclusive content aside, if there was no Beta at all, what would you have done just for one day with the Alpha build? Word of mouth will be strong, and it won't need more than a few days to do it.

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Actually...

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 16:39 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

Heh. :)

Ok, maybe someone rushed out and did... but I'd find it very hard to believe that the Alpha caused some kind of massive PS4 sales gain or a noticeable rise in preorders. Most of us, I bet, sat there and said, "Oh... which I known that sooner..."


Personally, I was very hesitant and cynical towards Destiny, especially in the days before the Alpha. But after one day with it, I slapped down for the full digital download, and once the Alpha ended, I began to count the days until the Beta.

So I think the Alpha did sway a number of people towards a purchase. As you can see from around here, watching the Alpha may have been tedious, but Stephen Laughlin and I spent almost an hour in one single spot trying to get out of the map, and I wasn't bored at all. It felt like the good ol' days.

I think that's the point of the multiplat Beta: It's not to test anything significant, it's to get the word out that this game is actually really darn fun to play, and we're just going to get a small taste of what's in store.

Exclusive content aside, if there was no Beta at all, what would you have done just for one day with the Alpha build? Word of mouth will be strong, and it won't need more than a few days to do it.

I totally agree that letting people play the game was hugely important. The beta will be too. As much credit as I give Bungie for something like two decades of great gaming I was still a little unsure about Destiny. Even just getting to see it played by normal gamers for a couple of days was enough to make me feel better. At the same time I didn't watch a lot mainly because watching is kinda tedious when you can't play something yourself.

And yeah, the Beta isn't probably so much to find bugs, but to test load balancing and stuff. But then again, we've seen multiple major games fall on their face on day one because they underestimated load. If all the Beta accomplishes is letting them get a good estimate then it's worth it.

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Actually...

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Monday, July 07, 2014, 23:16 (3769 days ago) @ Korny

He was talking about people going out and buying a PS4 just to play the Alpha. He wasn't talking about the Alpha convincing people to buy Destiny (which it certainly did in many cases).

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Blue_Blazer_NZ, Wellington, New Zealand, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:48 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Timed-exclusive content has existed for a while now, while the price of games on each platform have remained about the same. Caveat emptor. If this content weren't effective in influencing buying decisions, it wouldn't exist. Bungie is the business of making games. Those games have to sell for them to continue to do this. This is one way games are sold. Wail on Bungie all you want, but this is the business they're in.


But the game would sell either way, wouldn't it? Is anybody actually buying Destiny because of a red stripped scooter? Certainly nobody bought a PS4 for the Alpha, because they didn't know to do so. I love the neat collector's content coming with Destiny. It looks awesome. To me, that's a worthy thing for developers to make to try to attract sales. Someone pays more, they get more. That's cool. What I don't like is paying the same and getting less.

Yeah, it's just a video game. Sure, it might just be an ugly pain scheme (I've had that happen to me before... ugly DLC content that I kinda wished I DIDN'T get) but being left out does matter to people. I don't think that should just be dismissed.

Agree here too - I'm all for limited editions etc, but missing out on content simply because you happened to invested into the "wrong" platform several months ago is pretty frustrating. I'm on the PS4, yet I feel pretty crappy that my Xbox brethren won't be able to experience the same content as me for a certain amount of time. It makes it awkward and lame if I jump on community forums to discuss war stories that some players simply cannot relate to yet because the logo on the box next to their TV is different to mine.


What else bugs me is that we know next to nothing about the nature of the content in question, which could be shoulder pads, insignias, or guns that are no better than any gun included in every version sold and yet so many are screaming like somebody took their blankie. They don't even know what the blankie looks like.


But isn't that a problem in itself? We're being asked to decide where to spend money without even being given details on what we are or aren't buying. Just simple things like how long the timed exclusives last is still in question.

As I said; I'm a PS4 guy, but I have to agree with you on this. It sucks that the Xbox guys are not only missing out on some exclusive gear, but they are left not know what it is or even exactly how long the exclusivity lasts. Hell, even as a PS4 guy, I don't even know what the DLC bonus gear is. Some up-front info would be useful when we're deciding to invest into this franchise on a specific platform.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Claude Errera @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:15 (3769 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Certainly nobody bought a PS4 for the Alpha, because they didn't know to do so.

True story:

Duncan, mastrbiggy, Cody Miller, a friend of biggy's and I were sitting around biggy's back yard on Sunday, before E3. Biggy found out that the Alpha would be available during the show - and got up from the table (I'm not sure we'd even finished eating our burgers yet) and went out and bought a PS4.

Literally bought a PS4 for the Alpha, within minutes of finding out it was coming.

So while that's probably not the most COMMON reaction, it certainly happened. In fact, it happened to people you know. (Well, have communicated with on a forum on the internet.)

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:17 (3769 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Certainly nobody bought a PS4 for the Alpha, because they didn't know to do so.


True story:

Duncan, mastrbiggy, Cody Miller, a friend of biggy's and I were sitting around biggy's back yard on Sunday, before E3. Biggy found out that the Alpha would be available during the show - and got up from the table (I'm not sure we'd even finished eating our burgers yet) and went out and bought a PS4.

Literally bought a PS4 for the Alpha, within minutes of finding out it was coming.

So while that's probably not the most COMMON reaction, it certainly happened. In fact, it happened to people you know. (Well, have communicated with on a forum on the internet.)

And I actually heard of a handful of people that did the same thing. Heck go check the post on Reddit and there are quite a few that mentioned they did it on there.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:21 (3769 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Yeah... I had to back track on that one. :)

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Yapok @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:42 (3769 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I probably would have if I had the extra cash right at that moment ;)

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 22:57 (3768 days ago) @ Claude Errera
edited by Stephen Laughlin, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 23:03

Certainly nobody bought a PS4 for the Alpha, because they didn't know to do so.


True story:

Duncan, mastrbiggy, Cody Miller, a friend of biggy's and I were sitting around biggy's back yard on Sunday, before E3. Biggy found out that the Alpha would be available during the show - and got up from the table (I'm not sure we'd even finished eating our burgers yet) and went out and bought a PS4.

Literally bought a PS4 for the Alpha, within minutes of finding out it was coming.

So while that's probably not the most COMMON reaction, it certainly happened. In fact, it happened to people you know. (Well, have communicated with on a forum on the internet.)

This is precisely what I did as well...just went straight out to Best Buy and brought home a PS4 as soon as I was positive I'd be able to get a code for the Alpha, the day before it went public.

Honestly, Bungie is the only reason I'm still buying new consoles. I would never have purchased an Xbox or 360 were it not for Halo. The purchase was simple once it was obvious Bungie was leaning more toward the PS4.

Still, I don't think I'd be dissatisfied if I was an Xbox One owner. It's just some extra timed bullshit. I could see being upset if I went out and specifically bought an Xbox One for Destiny. But why would anyone do that? Bungie's been conspicuously leaning toward the PS4 in all the marketing from day one.

Look how far we've come. If you were a Bungie fan on a PS2 or PS3 at any point in the last decade, you were fucked [unless you REALLY loved Oni]. You could not play Halo, period. They've been releasing games on Microsoft consoles for over ten years. Now, Destiny is being simultaneously released on every major console with a few tiny caveats and people are in a goddamn uproar! Really?

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 05:41 (3767 days ago) @ Stephen Laughlin

Well said. I've said enough about this elsewhere, but I wanted to acknowledge that this is on point.

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Hey Pete!

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 08:17 (3767 days ago) @ Kermit

You want to borrow my PS4? I can bring it to you this weekend. I can plan to be up your way. You can keep it until the end of the month, when the Last of Us comes out. I'll miss playing with certain folks during the Beta, but I can live with that.

I extend the offer to the exclusives, too, by the way. I can loan you a Playstation for a weekend or so now and then.

I offer sincerely. I don't share your anger at Bungie and I don't think it's justified, and I felt the same way before I decided to buy a PS4. That said, I want to make things better.

Hey Pete!

by petetheduck, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 08:24 (3767 days ago) @ Kermit

You want to borrow my PS4? I can bring it to you this weekend. I can plan to be up your way. You can keep it until the end of the month, when the Last of Us comes out. I'll miss playing with certain folks during the Beta, but I can live with that.

I extend the offer to the exclusives, too, by the way. I can loan you a Playstation for a weekend or so now and then.

I offer sincerely. I don't share your anger at Bungie and I don't think it's justified, and I felt the same way before I decided to buy a PS4. That said, I want to make things better.

No, thank you, but I appreciate the offer.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 05:43 (3767 days ago) @ Stephen Laughlin

The purchase was simple once it was obvious Bungie was leaning more toward the PS4.

But the controller feels terrible.

:P

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Yapok @, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 06:07 (3767 days ago) @ Malagate

I personally like the feel of it :P

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 06:20 (3767 days ago) @ Yapok

I personally like the feel of it :P

Yeah, to each their own. I'm not usually so particular about that kind of thing, but the Playstation controllers have always felt terrible to me, and the 4 was no different. Very marginal improvement over the original. Maybe there will be a passable frankenmod or Xbone imitator at some point.

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]

~m

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Yapok @, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 06:44 (3767 days ago) @ Malagate

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]

Couldn't agree more. Its high time for this to happen.

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Agreed.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 06:57 (3767 days ago) @ Malagate

About the controller, though, I felt precisely the same way. After playing a few long games with it, I grew to like the old dual shock, and my favorite, the 360 controller, felt bulky when I switched back. The 360 remains my favorite, but now the ranking is 360 > Dual Shock 4 = Xbone > Dual Shock 3.

The Xbone would be great except there's this weird thing where, because the thumbsticks aren't symmetrical, there's pressure on your right forefinger because of the angle of your hands. The 360 controller avoided this somehow. It's really solid otherwise.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 09:09 (3767 days ago) @ Malagate

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]

Nothing less than a PC / Mac only release could have solved this, and since Destiny needs to sell 16 million units to break even, and since only ONE PC game has ever done numbers like that (Minecraft), I can see WHY they did what they did.

Doesn't make it right though.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 09:16 (3767 days ago) @ Cody Miller

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]


Nothing less than a PC / Mac only release could have solved this, and since Destiny needs to sell 16 million units to break even, and since only ONE PC game has ever done numbers like that (Minecraft), I can see WHY they did what they did.

You saw how that 500 million dollar figure was debunked, right?

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 09:32 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]


Nothing less than a PC / Mac only release could have solved this, and since Destiny needs to sell 16 million units to break even, and since only ONE PC game has ever done numbers like that (Minecraft), I can see WHY they did what they did.


You saw how that 500 million dollar figure was debunked, right?

I'd always read that number as development, marketing, and shoring up the backend infrastructure to support it. I figured that's where the whole investing-in-the-IP kind of language came from. Easy for some to misinterpret.

Or am I off on that?

~m

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 17:39 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]


Nothing less than a PC / Mac only release could have solved this, and since Destiny needs to sell 16 million units to break even, and since only ONE PC game has ever done numbers like that (Minecraft), I can see WHY they did what they did.


You saw how that 500 million dollar figure was debunked, right?

I wish I could source this, and maybe this was calculated using the 500 mil figure, but there was an article in Forbes? that said Destiny would need to sell 16 million to break even.

Even if it only costs 200 million, that's still 6.4 million to break even, which is still a really small list of PC games (Minecraft, Diablo 3, WoW, Starcraft, Battlefield 2, Sims 1/2/3, Guild Wars 1/2, Myst, and Starcraft 2.)

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 18:08 (3767 days ago) @ Cody Miller

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]


Nothing less than a PC / Mac only release could have solved this, and since Destiny needs to sell 16 million units to break even, and since only ONE PC game has ever done numbers like that (Minecraft), I can see WHY they did what they did.


You saw how that 500 million dollar figure was debunked, right?


I wish I could source this, and maybe this was calculated using the 500 mil figure, but there was an article in Forbes? that said Destiny would need to sell 16 million to break even.

Even if it only costs 200 million, that's still 6.4 million to break even, which is still a really small list of PC games (Minecraft, Diablo 3, WoW, Starcraft, Battlefield 2, Sims 1/2/3, Guild Wars 1/2, Myst, and Starcraft 2.)

Do PC games not sell as well as console games?

Halo 4 sold 9.05 million
Reach sold 9.75 million
ODST sold 6.24 million
Halo 3 sold 14.5 million
Halo 2 sold 8.49 million
Gears of war sold 5.93 million

And those were each on a single platform. Destiny selling about the same as ODST seems like a ridiculously low bar to hurdle.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 22:07 (3767 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Do PC games not sell as well as console games?

On the whole, no they do not.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, July 12, 2014, 20:06 (3764 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I wish I could source this, and maybe this was calculated using the 500 mil figure, but there was an article in Forbes? that said Destiny would need to sell 16 million to break even.

Even if it only costs 200 million, that's still 6.4 million to break even, which is still a really small list of PC games (Minecraft, Diablo 3, WoW, Starcraft, Battlefield 2, Sims 1/2/3, Guild Wars 1/2, Myst, and Starcraft 2.)

I think you first brought it up here http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?mode=thread&id=22691#p22692

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 10:27 (3767 days ago) @ Cody Miller

But really, the only thing I am and will truly stay upset about is a community segmented by platform; when what is best for the medium, the art, and the players is:

[image]


Nothing less than a PC / Mac only release could have solved this, and since Destiny needs to sell 16 million units to break even, and since only ONE PC game has ever done numbers like that (Minecraft), I can see WHY they did what they did.

Doesn't make it right though.

16 million? Where'd that number come from? Keep in mind that everyone from Activision to Bungie has now stated that the five hundred million dollar budget quote is in no way accurate.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Avateur @, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 18:33 (3767 days ago) @ Stephen Laughlin

lol. I get what you're saying, but this is how it almost appears to translate:

"I'm special, Xbox One owners did this to themselves, and the have nots should be like the haves and have an open mind about it all, or just go buy the console and be quiet. How dare anyone feel strongly about things!"

The perfect addition to a thread with diapers and blankies.

Note: Still not a single opinion of my own provided on this mess, beyond DLC and the dismissiveness directed at the "butthurt" folk.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 21:25 (3767 days ago) @ Avateur

Note: Still not a single opinion of my own provided on this mess, beyond DLC and the dismissiveness directed at the "butthurt" folk.

Yeah... You keep telling yourself that your 'translation' doesn't involve any personal opinion or bias.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Avateur @, Wednesday, July 09, 2014, 21:28 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

It doesn't as far as Bungie or Activision's whatever with a Beta is going. I've provided no actual thoughts of my own on it. Just all the personal comments and belittlement others seem to be making that is being directed places. But go ahead and point out my thoughts on a Beta or its timeframe or anything actually pertaining to this topic beyond DLC, if you'd like. I'd love to be made aware of my own unstated thoughts.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 07:34 (3766 days ago) @ Avateur

It doesn't as far as Bungie or Activision's whatever with a Beta is going. I've provided no actual thoughts of my own on it. Just all the personal comments and belittlement others seem to be making that is being directed places. But go ahead and point out my thoughts on a Beta or its timeframe or anything actually pertaining to this topic beyond DLC, if you'd like. I'd love to be made aware of my own unstated thoughts.

You're claiming to be an impartial referee, but I think you're making some bad calls. And maybe since the rhetoric has died down it might be good to let it stay down and not spin people's words into something worse than they are.

I'm not one to belittle or take delight in other people's unhappiness. There may be some people like that here, but I'm not one of them. Based on my interactions with Stephen, I don't think he is either. I don't understand the level of anger, and I expressed that, and I've apologized twice now for doing so a bit too colorfully. I don't think a third apology is necessary, yet maybe you think so because you're still calling out my rhetoric from days ago. I ask you as someone who has enjoyed your company face to face, can you spare some grace here, and let some of this go?

Thank you for being reasonable.

by petetheduck, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 08:57 (3766 days ago) @ Kermit

It doesn't as far as Bungie or Activision's whatever with a Beta is going. I've provided no actual thoughts of my own on it. Just all the personal comments and belittlement others seem to be making that is being directed places. But go ahead and point out my thoughts on a Beta or its timeframe or anything actually pertaining to this topic beyond DLC, if you'd like. I'd love to be made aware of my own unstated thoughts.


You're claiming to be an impartial referee, but I think you're making some bad calls. And maybe since the rhetoric has died down it might be good to let it stay down and not spin people's words into something worse than they are.

I'm not one to belittle or take delight in other people's unhappiness. There may be some people like that here, but I'm not one of them. Based on my interactions with Stephen, I don't think he is either. I don't understand the level of anger, and I expressed that, and I've apologized twice now for doing so a bit too colorfully. I don't think a third apology is necessary, yet maybe you think so because you're still calling out my rhetoric from days ago. I ask you as someone who has enjoyed your company face to face, can you spare some grace here, and let some of this go?

I don't think a third apology is necessary either, but I think you said something and it's being used as an example. Just as anyone can use my original post as an example of overreacting, regardless of any subsequent calming down that both of us have done.

Stephen's comments can be interpreted exactly as Avateur said, although maybe that's not how he meant it. Or maybe it is. It just comes off, to me, like he's acting like he's above the whole situation and those involved in discussing it.

"Hey, everyone should have seen this coming, it's your fault for not being accommodating to Bungivision's garbage, I don't even know why you want all this stuff that I'm getting and you aren't."

Lack of content parity isn't something to ignore or justify on behalf of the publisher/developer--it's just bad. Whether it's platform exclusives or pre-order bonuses, it's just bad.

So far, all of the content seems to be timed, which is good--the situation could be much worse. But it could also be much better. It should be much better.

It might not bother some people here, especially those that are unaffected, but I just wish Avateur would stop pretending not to have a bias. It's so obvious, dude.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 09:42 (3766 days ago) @ petetheduck

The other thing is: Why would you even want to appear unbiased? I could see arguing that people should pick the best platform for the best rewards. I can see arguing the opposite, that the industry is broken by exclusives. But arguing: "Meh, whatevers." just seems kinda odd. It kinda feels like taking a neutral position is an attempt to criticize others without having to accept or respond to any criticism directed back at yourself. It's like saying "You're wrong, but I have no opinion on the matter so you can't say I'm wrong."

Well, I think having no opinion in all of this is wrong. As is having an opinion but refusing to share it just so you can remain above the fray. Personally, I think the fray is kinda fun even if we (myself very very much included here) sometimes make mistakes and have to take some flack for them.

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 10:23 (3766 days ago) @ Ragashingo

The other thing is: Why would you even want to appear unbiased? I could see arguing that people should pick the best platform for the best rewards. I can see arguing the opposite, that the industry is broken by exclusives. But arguing: "Meh, whatevers." just seems kinda odd. It kinda feels like taking a neutral position is an attempt to criticize others without having to accept or respond to any criticism directed back at yourself. It's like saying "You're wrong, but I have no opinion on the matter so you can't say I'm wrong."

Well, I think having no opinion in all of this is wrong. As is having an opinion but refusing to share it just so you can remain above the fray. Personally, I think the fray is kinda fun even if we (myself very very much included here) sometimes make mistakes and have to take some flack for them.

Let the record show that I had just returned from bungie.net and had read some ridiculous ALL CAPPED comments when I wrote about the screaming. I should have said that initially, but thank you for not taking it personally and even responding with a smiley.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by petetheduck, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 10:33 (3766 days ago) @ Ragashingo

The other thing is: Why would you even want to appear unbiased? I could see arguing that people should pick the best platform for the best rewards. I can see arguing the opposite, that the industry is broken by exclusives. But arguing: "Meh, whatevers." just seems kinda odd. It kinda feels like taking a neutral position is an attempt to criticize others without having to accept or respond to any criticism directed back at yourself. It's like saying "You're wrong, but I have no opinion on the matter so you can't say I'm wrong."

Well, I think having no opinion in all of this is wrong. As is having an opinion but refusing to share it just so you can remain above the fray. Personally, I think the fray is kinda fun even if we (myself very very much included here) sometimes make mistakes and have to take some flack for them.

I was being sarcastic about the Avateur bit. Guess the quick transition didn't convey that sufficiently, sorry.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Avateur @, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 17:37 (3766 days ago) @ Ragashingo

The other thing is: Why would you even want to appear unbiased? I could see arguing that people should pick the best platform for the best rewards. I can see arguing the opposite, that the industry is broken by exclusives. But arguing: "Meh, whatevers." just seems kinda odd. It kinda feels like taking a neutral position is an attempt to criticize others without having to accept or respond to any criticism directed back at yourself. It's like saying "You're wrong, but I have no opinion on the matter so you can't say I'm wrong."

Not a matter of appearances, honestly. I like the arguing for one or the other. I like seeing that play out in this thread without belittlement, brushing aside, condescending, name calling, or disregarding how people are feeling on the subject. That's all I've been calling out.

Well, I think having no opinion in all of this is wrong. As is having an opinion but refusing to share it just so you can remain above the fray. Personally, I think the fray is kinda fun even if we (myself very very much included here) sometimes make mistakes and have to take some flack for them.

As for where I stand, believe it or not I really am in a "whatevers" grouping. I really don't have an opinion. If you think that's wrong, well that's totally cool with me. For the first time since 2000, nothing Bungie does will decide my console purchase. This Beta thing, the DLC or time-restricted content (which I've readily said is total trash) will not impact whether I go for Xbox One or PS4. Both sides have valid points. Both sides have expressed a ridiculous level of "love" or "hate" for whatever. One side has been far more rude and dismissive of it, which leads to conversations like this even occurring instead of constructive ones about what Activision or Bungie or someone should do or what people would like them to do, vs. "well gee Bungie has made it so totally obvious beyond forever that the Sony route is the route, and if you didn't realize that, well how dare you be upset, I mean gosh really oh em gee diaper." lol

I also haven't claimed that anyone is inherently wrong. I've actually said the opposite. People have a right to think that pete, yours, or others' reactions were totally ridiculous. They can then state why without being totally dismissive and without name calling or acting like the people upset are stupid for somehow lacking foresight in their purchasing decisions (see Narcogen's post for a really good example of a really good post in my opinion). That's all I'm getting at. Just because I may have some interesting translations for how I view what someone who bought a PS4 is saying doesn't mean I disagree with their premise.

That's all, in this case. I know you've read my HBO posts. I'm really, really good at biased opinion making and hyperbole. I'm definitely not always the cooler head, that's for sure. That's not the case here, and I really don't have an opinion of my own regarding this Beta stuff in general other than, "Some of you are mad, some of you aren't, how about the people who aren't don't attack the people who are. Just tell them why you disagree, passionately even and with hyperbole because fun, and then let's have an awesome discussion or debate. Thanks."

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Well said and fair enough. :)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 17:45 (3766 days ago) @ Avateur

- No text -

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Thank you for being reasonable.

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 15:48 (3766 days ago) @ petetheduck

Stephen's comments can be interpreted exactly as Avateur said, although maybe that's not how he meant it. Or maybe it is. It just comes off, to me, like he's acting like he's above the whole situation and those involved in discussing it.

"Hey, everyone should have seen this coming, it's your fault for not being accommodating to Bungivision's garbage, I don't even know why you want all this stuff that I'm getting and you aren't."

Lack of content parity isn't something to ignore or justify on behalf of the publisher/developer--it's just bad. Whether it's platform exclusives or pre-order bonuses, it's just bad.

So far, all of the content seems to be timed, which is good--the situation could be much worse. But it could also be much better. It should be much better.

I don't mean to belittle the significance of the timed exclusives. Just try to put this in perspective. The thing is, it HAS been much worse for almost fifteen years. Up to this point it's been impossible to be a Bungie fan if not through Microsoft's platform of choice. Now, every major console is getting a piece of the action. Yes, it should be better. Exclusives suck. Make some noise. As a Bungie fan, I would be disappointed to own an Xbox One. Still, it's hard for me to look back on the Microsoft era and say this isn't an improvement, but I suppose that just sounds like I'm being an apologist for the current state of the industry.

Thank you for being reasonable.

by Kalamari @, Waiting for Ghorn, FB, and BH, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 14:04 (3766 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I agree, being reasonable in this case seems to be synonymous with just going along with this bullshit rather than taking a stand and voicing your concerns. Effectively, it's just enabling publishers and developers to do more of this garbage, since they know everyone will just give in. If nothing is said now, these practices will just continue because there was no backlash against it.

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"...we walked uphill in the snow both ways..."

by breitzen @, Kansas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:42 (3769 days ago) @ Jabberwok

I guess in my perfect world the console companies would remain competitive by focusing only on exclusive 1st party games. I feel the whole exclusives from 3rd party game system is bad for gamers.

Honestly this is the first time I've really felt effected by it (hence why I'm finally vocal) and it hurts. I don't feel like it's entitlement, I want the Bungie community to grow onto the PS platform, it just feels unfair right now.

I don't see the bigger picture, I don't doubt that most if not all people at Bungie still love us, I just see my adopted brother getting to eat dessert first, and I don't understand why. I still have faith in Bungie and the people behind this game. I just want to understand, and while I accept that I might never fully understand, I still want to.

Sorry if I came off like I'm mad at Bungie, I'm not. I'm just trying to calmly voice my emotions and thoughts.

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"...we walked uphill in the snow both ways..."

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:47 (3769 days ago) @ breitzen

I guess in my perfect world the console companies would remain competitive by focusing only on exclusive 1st party games. I feel the whole exclusives from 3rd party game system is bad for gamers.

Honestly this is the first time I've really felt effected by it (hence why I'm finally vocal) and it hurts. I don't feel like it's entitlement, I want the Bungie community to grow onto the PS platform, it just feels unfair right now.

I don't see the bigger picture, I don't doubt that most if not all people at Bungie still love us, I just see my adopted brother getting to eat dessert first, and I don't understand why. I still have faith in Bungie and the people behind this game. I just want to understand, and while I accept that I might never fully understand, I still want to.

Sorry if I came off like I'm mad at Bungie, I'm not. I'm just trying to calmly voice my emotions and thoughts.

[image]

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"...we walked uphill in the snow both ways..."

by DaDerga, Baile Átha Cliath, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:42 (3769 days ago) @ Jabberwok

I don't mean to be this kind of person, but imagine how some of us felt back around 2000 when Bungie, the Mac developer (who also ported to PC), was bought by Microsoft and announced Halo would ONLY appear on Xbox. I bought a brand new Xbox when it was released by borrowing the money from a friend, something I never would have done otherwise. Now Bungie is able to branch out for the first time in over a decade, and I have to say that I don't have much sympathy for upset Xbox owners, even though I own two of them myself.

Bungie is not Xbox, the two things are not parts of the same whole. If you feel betrayed for some reason, you're certainly entitled to voice it, but things could be worse, and things WERE worse, so I don't see what the big deal is. I assume you have a 360, so you can play this game without buying any new hardware if you don't want to, whether it's an Xbox, a Playstation, or even just a better graphics card for your computer. Stand back and ask how much you really have to complain about.

So what I really mean to say is: "Why, back in MY day...."

Exactly this.
And since I'm going XBone initially, this is my second butthurt outing via Bungie, or rather would be, if I wasn't grizzled and prone to entertaining perspective. That said I do see where the upset comes from for some, and that can't be de-legitimised regardless of how it's framed.

DBO: welcome to your second butthurt outing

by yakaman, Monday, July 07, 2014, 14:01 (3769 days ago) @ DaDerga

- No text -

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DBO: welcome to your second butthurt outing

by DaDerga, Baile Átha Cliath, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 11:51 (3768 days ago) @ yakaman

HaHa, cheers. I'm in the south of France in glorious sunshine right now, surrounded by my beloved family, swilling cheap but delicious wine, and yes eating stinky cheese (the best kind), my butt couldn't be further from hurt if it was posteriorally possible. It's all about dat perspective. ;)

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Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Monday, July 07, 2014, 13:14 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

4 Days of Beta and only during the Largest Comic Con in the world. Great timing Bungie. Glad I've been waiting since the beta was first announced (preordered for 360 & One) and now I won't even get to participate. Happy Bungie Day.

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Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by katancik ⌂ @, Portland, OR/ University of Texas, Monday, July 07, 2014, 14:53 (3769 days ago) @ unoudid

I actually felt your disappointment here :/

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Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Monday, July 07, 2014, 22:51 (3769 days ago) @ katancik

I've had my beta codes active since October 9th, 2013. Now Bungie wants to give Microsoft the finger by putting their beta out during SDCC. It just happens that there will be a ton of Halo press going on. I doubt that is a coincidence.

Either way, 9 months of excitement waiting for the Beta just went down the tubes.

I hope that Bungie realizes that by giving the finger to Microsoft constantly it does a lot of harm to their older fan base as well.

Unbelievably disappointing...

by GrimBrotherIII, Monday, July 07, 2014, 14:53 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

4 days of Beta is just unacceptable and disturbing...

What's more disturbing?

Bungie's eery silence on the whole subject.

- III

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Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Monday, July 07, 2014, 15:56 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

I'm upset, but not at Bungie. That's about all I've got.

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I think this is an industry-wide problem with AAA games.

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Monday, July 07, 2014, 17:47 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

We have put Bungie on a mantle and expected them to act differently from every other big studio developer out there, so much that we forget the type of entity that they are. :)

And while I still believe they are bursting at the seams with creativity and craftsmanship, it is important to remember that they are still a well-funded, popular developer and also a business that keeps its employees alive and kicking, and have been one for a while. That comes at a cost. Those costs are especially apparent when you go cross-platform. (If 343i and Halo were not Microsoft-owned hypothetically, I would imagine similar issues arising as have occurred with Destiny and many other "AAA" games.)

I'm not attempting to excuse it. I think a lot of folks who were tired of these marketing ploys, myself included, were hoping Bungie, because we like them so much, might try to stand apart from it, or at least only dabble in it with some horse armor...but it's not looking so. If it was another developer and another game, I don't think some of us would have been surprised by any of this.

But I'm not upset with Bungie in particular - or upset at all (that was all used up on my Cintiq not turning on this morning). I've simply become exhausted with the AAA blockbuster industry as a whole the last few years. That's why I hardly buy any of them anymore, and usually never new. With all these DLCs, exclusives, and other gimmicks constantly bombarding me, how am I supposed to stay interested in the industry that at one time, not so long ago, I was trying to break into?

To fix this issue (if you think it is an issue in the first place), I think we have to not support it across the board, across the industry. It's not a personal or angry thing - it's simply communication through sales. If I have the money for a new copy of Destiny (which sounds impossible at the moment), I'll likely just buy a standard edition, and try to buy it from an outlet that does not offer an exclusive, like I'd currently do with any other game that piqued me interest. I still think Destiny looks great, and I'm a big supporter of Bungie, but we need to let the industry know how we want our games, and to do so we have to move beyond message board rants and act on it, even if that means sacrificing some of the cool nuggets we want. :)

That's my two cents at the moment, but my opinions fluctuate with every new piece of data. Perspective's got to always be on the move, y'know.

I think this is an industry-wide problem with AAA games.

by Avateur @, Monday, July 07, 2014, 19:54 (3769 days ago) @ Leviathan

I seriously need to start by letting you know how much I appreciate your post. I don't think I appreciate it in the context of what's happening right here right now, but more to how I feel on a general level as a consumer and as someone who, as "far back" as 2011 and 2012, was so devoted and excited for the industry as a whole, but not quite as much anymore. Thank you for your post.

But I'm not upset with Bungie in particular - or upset at all (that was all used up on my Cintiq not turning on this morning). I've simply become exhausted with the AAA blockbuster industry as a whole the last few years. That's why I hardly buy any of them anymore, and usually never new. With all these DLCs, exclusives, and other gimmicks constantly bombarding me, how am I supposed to stay interested in the industry that at one time, not so long ago, I was trying to break into?

I think this largely speaks to how I feel. I'm hardly buying games anymore. I have Bioshock Infinite, yet all I've done is stare at the box. Can't bring myself to play it. Not sure why. Was totally excited for Watch_Dogs and Titanfall. They were must-buys even a month from their launches. Haven't purchased. I also tried breaking into the game industry. I also really, really fell out of wanting to try or even care to. It's really disappointing how jaded I've become at the gaming industry at large.

To fix this issue (if you think it is an issue in the first place), I think we have to not support it across the board, across the industry. It's not a personal or angry thing - it's simply communication through sales. If I have the money for a new copy of Destiny (which sounds impossible at the moment), I'll likely just buy a standard edition, and try to buy it from an outlet that does not offer an exclusive, like I'd currently do with any other game that piqued me interest. I still think Destiny looks great, and I'm a big supporter of Bungie, but we need to let the industry know how we want our games, and to do so we have to move beyond message board rants and act on it, even if that means sacrificing some of the cool nuggets we want. :)

I like the idea of both message board rants and letting wallets do the talking. Just saying. :P

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Well said.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 07, 2014, 21:19 (3769 days ago) @ Leviathan

- No text -

I think this is an industry-wide problem with AAA games.

by Jabberwok, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 01:43 (3769 days ago) @ Leviathan

Absolutely agree on this. Bungie is one of very few high-budget studios that I will support, and even then, I have no plans to pre-order all of their stuff like I did in the Halo days. There are a ton of creative people in the industry, and a lot of them are small enough that they don't have to deal with the ridiculous crap that the big names like Bungie do. That's where most of my money for games goes these days, and even when I buy a major title, it's a question of what sort of people I want to support, and how much extra content I can just skip because it is marketing fluff.

Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by CrazedOne, Tuesday, July 08, 2014, 01:42 (3769 days ago) @ petetheduck

[image]

Xbox players butthurt thread, check in here

by ChanningC, Thursday, July 10, 2014, 21:47 (3766 days ago) @ petetheduck

Totally agreed. If I hadn't pre-ordered, I wouldn't have bought it. They talked about wanting this game to last TEN YEARS, and they're already screwing the XBOX users before it's even released. Ten years of getting the shaft? I would rather not. This game looks beautiful, the gameplay looks amazing, and the story (the released parts, anyhow) sound intriguing and not half-assed. I'm sure it will be amazing. The problem lies in the fact that a major game like this is giving any preferential treatment at all. This exclusive content, exclusive releases, etc. are going to ruin gaming as developers become more focused on how to draw in cash for a specific system for the kick-back. Gaming is a culture, a fairly new and still developing culture. It's brought people and nations together for friendly competition, allowed outlets for anger and frustration in a world where such acts are not acceptable, told stories and legends that will live forever, and changed the lives of anyone who can let themselves get lost in a story world. Gaming has brought people together, but if we're not careful, this can all get lost in a battle for money. If we're not careful, the XBOX vs PS tradition that developers are breeding will be the end of good games. Then we'll be stuck with WiiU and Mario Party.

It may not be much, but it's the best we can do Petition for Equality

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention, which in different ages & countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders & miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security & repose in the absolute power of an Individual: and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty." — George Washington, September 19, 1796

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