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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system. (Destiny)

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:18 (2932 days ago)

Bungie has gone through a lot of iterations regarding special ammo since Destiny launched, and even more regarding how "special weapons" function, in terms of their lethality in the Crucible.

And I can't help but feel like it's because Bungie is trying to fit these weapons into a roll that they weren't designed for in the first place.

With the exception of sidearms (which are an anomaly), Special weapons serve as 1-Hit-Kill tools in the correct situations. The chief issue is, at one point or another throughout Destiny's lifespan, players have figured out how to abuse the power of these weapons by broadening the 1HK situations to cover engagements which were outside what was intended by the designers.

And it makes for a very frustrating game.

I'm not sure how Bungie drew the line between "Heavy" weapons and "special" weapons. They're all power weapons with varying strengths and weaknesses. And they all have situations where they can out-gun their counterparts.

Perhaps this is nostalgia speaking, but I feel like the sandbox designers for Halo understood this. The only gametypes that had you starting with "power" weapons were novelty weapon-specific gametypes where everyone used 1-2 specific weapons and ONLY those weapons.

The argument could be made that these weapons are more suited to Destiny because the Time-to-kill with "primary" weapons is lower, but time-to-kill is it's own beast that I'm not trying to cover here.

So my question is for you all is this: which of the following systems would you most like to see used in Des2ny?

  • Stay the course- Keep Destiny's 3-gun system, and keep tweaking "specials" as needed.
  • Same as above, but limit special ammo to feel as rare and valuable as heavy.
  • Merge "Heavies" and "Specials" into a single weapon category, and adjust ammo drops to compensate. (eg. Auto-rifle & Sniper, scout-rifle & shotgun, pulse-rifle & Rocket launcher, etc.)
  • Same as above, but give players another equip-able primary slot, allowing them to adapt to different situations without needing a complimentary "special weapon". (eg. Hand-cannon, scout-rifle, & LMG)
  • Something else not listed here?

After thinking about it a little, I'd really like to see how options 2 or 4 would play out.

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Controversial Alternative

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:48 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN

I'm going to suggest a controversial alternative to all the ones you suggested, though it combines parts of what you said.

I think a potentially fair, yet game changing load out is this:

Primary weapons stay exactly the same.

No Secondary slot, everyone has a sidearm equipped, acts as sidearms do now (including spawn with ammo).

Special and Heavy Weapons are combined. If a traditionally heavy weapon is equipped, ammo should drop as max 2 rockets, and one clip of an HMG. If a special weapon is equipped, 1.5x the normal ammo is dropped (Should be between 6-10 rounds ideally, perhaps 8-12 would be better). Heavy weapon ammo disappears on death, special cut in half. (We could certainly tweak this, just an idea).

Several things occur in this scenario:

1) Primary weapon choice is VERY important as this will be your primary engagement weapon. Probably why they named it such.

2) Personally, I love sidearms, I'm a bit biased here (I enjoy running a Scout Rifle, Sidearm loadout from time to time). That being said, sidearms are NOT one hit kills, but are intended for close quarters combat. They still require skill to kill your opponent. It's a pretty fair game when two people are sidearming each other. This gives you a weapon to use in CQB.

3) Heavy and Secondary become more precious (a goal of Bungie) and force the player to make a choice between what kind of weapon they want in this slot.

That's my suggestion. What say ye?

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Controversial Alternative

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:56 (2932 days ago) @ BeardFade

I'm going to suggest a controversial alternative to all the ones you suggested, though it combines parts of what you said.

I think a potentially fair, yet game changing load out is this:

Primary weapons stay exactly the same.

No Secondary slot, everyone has a sidearm equipped, acts as sidearms do now (including spawn with ammo).

Special and Heavy Weapons are combined. If a traditionally heavy weapon is equipped, ammo should drop as max 2 rockets, and one clip of an HMG. If a special weapon is equipped, 1.5x the normal ammo is dropped (Should be between 6-10 rounds ideally, perhaps 8-12 would be better). Heavy weapon ammo disappears on death, special cut in half. (We could certainly tweak this, just an idea).

Several things occur in this scenario:

1) Primary weapon choice is VERY important as this will be your primary engagement weapon. Probably why they named it such.

2) Personally, I love sidearms, I'm a bit biased here (I enjoy running a Scout Rifle, Sidearm loadout from time to time). That being said, sidearms are NOT one hit kills, but are intended for close quarters combat. They still require skill to kill your opponent. It's a pretty fair game when two people are sidearming each other. This gives you a weapon to use in CQB.

3) Heavy and Secondary become more precious (a goal of Bungie) and force the player to make a choice between what kind of weapon they want in this slot.

That's my suggestion. What say ye?

I really like this, and it seems possible to implement within the current framework of the game. My thoughts about it are more complicated and would fundamentally change how we play.

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Controversial Alternative

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:57 (2932 days ago) @ BeardFade

Primary weapons stay exactly the same.
No Secondary slot, everyone has a sidearm equipped, acts as sidearms do now (including spawn with ammo).
Special and Heavy Weapons are combined. If a traditionally heavy weapon is equipped, ammo should drop as max 2 rockets, and one clip of an HMG. If a special weapon is equipped, 1.5x the normal ammo is dropped (Should be between 6-10 rounds ideally, perhaps 8-12 would be better). Heavy weapon ammo disappears on death, special cut in half. (We could certainly tweak this, just an idea).

I think this would seriously diminish any desire to use short-range primaries. Why would I choose a Hand Cannon or Auto Rifle when everyone, including me, has a side arm?

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Controversial Alternative

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 16:00 (2932 days ago) @ dogcow

Sidearms are still weaker and have a shorter range than both ARs and HCs. Perhaps a small boost to ARs and HCs range would rebalance in this scenario.

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Controversial Alternative

by slycrel ⌂, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 17:30 (2932 days ago) @ BeardFade

This sounds reasonable for PvP. I think it's a horrible idea for PvE.

Snipers are often the go-to weapon for PvE boss fights. This would destroy ammo balance for PvE raiding and more difficult PvE content -- you'd essentially be bringing back the heavy weapon synth problem we saw during Crota hard mode. Not fun.

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I agree, my suggestion was PvP biased

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 17:44 (2932 days ago) @ slycrel

I mostly play PvP (I end up running solo a lot, and PvP is a bit more fun than running other things solo). I think you're right that it would be a horrible idea for PvE. That being said, if this was the standard loadout, I'm pretty sure the bosses would have been different regarding their bullet-sponge-iness.

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Controversial Alternative

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 21:21 (2931 days ago) @ slycrel

This sounds reasonable for PvP. I think it's a horrible idea for PvE.

Snipers are often the go-to weapon for PvE boss fights. This would destroy ammo balance for PvE raiding and more difficult PvE content -- you'd essentially be bringing back the heavy weapon synth problem we saw during Crota hard mode. Not fun.

I think it would work great for PvE too if PvE were tweaked. The idea that building your fireteam for Raids requires certain roles of teammates based on their weapon loadouts seems interesting. You'd have to make special/heavy weapon more available, and you'd have to adjust which weapons do more damage to bosses to compensate for not everyone having certain weapons equipped.

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Controversial Alternative

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 21:28 (2931 days ago) @ red robber

I think it would work great for PvE too if PvE were tweaked. The idea that building your fireteam for Raids requires certain roles of teammates based on their weapon loadouts seems interesting. You'd have to make special/heavy weapon more available, and you'd have to adjust which weapons do more damage to bosses to compensate for not everyone having certain weapons equipped.

This idea would be fantastic if Destiny were an RPG where guns are not randomly acquired. Random loot means you can't design encounters to require certain things. I mean, you COULD, but it would be stupid.

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Controversial Alternative

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 21:40 (2931 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I think it would work great for PvE too if PvE were tweaked. The idea that building your fireteam for Raids requires certain roles of teammates based on their weapon loadouts seems interesting. You'd have to make special/heavy weapon more available, and you'd have to adjust which weapons do more damage to bosses to compensate for not everyone having certain weapons equipped.


This idea would be fantastic if Destiny were an RPG where guns are not randomly acquired. Random loot means you can't design encounters to require certain things. I mean, you COULD, but it would be stupid.

Not necessarily. Just because one weapon is the best (g-horn, black spindle), doesn't mean you can't kill bosses with other weapons. A good example is Golgoroth. When we first played through, I used black spindle, but later I used 4th horseman or invective. So maybe you don't have the best weapon, but usually a weapon of a specific type would fit the bill. Also since you have six folks for a raid, you tailor your teams to who has the best weapons for the needed situation.

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Huh? You're supporting his point with that...

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 22:03 (2931 days ago) @ red robber

It basically means Golgoroth isn't designed to be fought with a Black Spindle, just that it's quite nice to use one.

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Best Idea in 19 months.

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 21:35 (2931 days ago) @ BeardFade


Special and Heavy Weapons are combined. If a traditionally heavy weapon is equipped, ammo should drop as max 2 rockets, and one clip of an HMG. If a special weapon is equipped, 1.5x the normal ammo is dropped (Should be between 6-10 rounds ideally, perhaps 8-12 would be better). Heavy weapon ammo disappears on death, special cut in half. (We could certainly tweak this, just an idea).


That's my suggestion. What say ye?

Love it completely. As they stand, sidearms don't really have much of a role. This method really creates room for them to be used more often. I've always felt that the OHK weapons should be bundled together. Snipers, shotties, rockets were all power weapons in Halo. I'm thinking 2 power weapons drops per match, maybe 3 depending on how much ammo is dropped.

I'm not sure what to do with ammo upon death. Your idea is a great start. What about bringing ammo drops from dead players again? If they had rockets only a purple brick would drop that would feed only current heavies, vs the other specials dropping traditional green bricks?

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Best Idea in 19 months.

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 14:07 (2931 days ago) @ red robber

As they stand, sidearms don't really have much of a role. This method really creates room for them to be used more often.

That's 100% true but I'm not sure the game needs to be redesigned to create a role for them. Maybe they just never needed to exist? When they first came out I found the idea interesting, but in practice I just never use them.

I'm not sure what to do with ammo upon death.

Nothing. Nothing at all. Losing ammo on death sucks. I mean it's ok for PvP but it should stay there.

If they had rockets only a purple brick would drop that would feed only current heavies, vs the other specials dropping traditional green bricks?

Eh, if all the OHK weapons are truly being put in the same category then they should have the same ammo bricks, I think.

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Best Idea in 19 months.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 14:11 (2931 days ago) @ stabbim

As they stand, sidearms don't really have much of a role. This method really creates room for them to be used more often.


That's 100% true but I'm not sure the game needs to be redesigned to create a role for them. Maybe they just never needed to exist? When they first came out I found the idea interesting, but in practice I just never use them.

You should see Wildthing use his sidearm. He has been running No Land Beyond with a sidearm. He normally does better than me with a standard build. I'm sure he would be happy to post some videos :P

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Best Idea in 19 months.

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 14:22 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I run this build on occasion. It's quite fun.

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Sounds interesting. I'll try it out once I level them up.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 15:06 (2931 days ago) @ BeardFade

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Sidearms are beastly in PvP

by WildthingVII, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:31 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
edited by WildthingVII, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:47

Yeah, I've been using them more and more in PvP, coupled with a long-range primary like Mida or NLB and I really love them. I originally tried it to mitigate the whole don't-spawn-with-special-ammo thing, but even now that that's no longer the case, it's still my go-to build. Couple them with the stupid long range Warlock melee and you own mid-close range.

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That was dirty

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 18:04 (2931 days ago) @ WildthingVII

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Also, that second guy can't hit jack

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 18:26 (2931 days ago) @ unoudid

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Yes, I should have died...

by WildthingVII, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 20:01 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

...but that's a sidearm feature in my mind. It's happened enough that I really think people have a harder time shooting me back when I'm raining sidearm on them that anything else.

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That melee range is ridiculous. Gotta be 15-20 feet there.

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 19:21 (2931 days ago) @ WildthingVII

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Yes they are

by bluerunner @, Music City, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 19:32 (2931 days ago) @ WildthingVII

In the right range, they're awesome, as you have shown.

They also get 20 rounds in every respawn, even if you're out of ammo. That's been nice for getting the special kills for the IB bounty.

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Yes they are

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Friday, April 29, 2016, 13:14 (2929 days ago) @ bluerunner

In the right range, they're awesome, as you have shown.

They also get 20 rounds in every respawn, even if you're out of ammo. That's been nice for getting the special kills for the IB bounty.

And since it's not been mentioned, they are perfect for those times when you get someone down to one shot and have to reload your primary. Switching to your sidearm is quicker than switching to any other special and you don't have to aim as carefully as a sniper or be in close range as a shotgun so finishing someone off is usually a quick shot.

Sidearms are beastly in PvP

by Argent_17, Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:52 (2929 days ago) @ WildthingVII

What perks are on your iron wreath?

Sidearms are beastly in PvP

by WildthingVII, Friday, April 29, 2016, 13:50 (2929 days ago) @ Argent_17

It's just the vendor roll from the first time they were ever sold. Hot swap, zen moment, quick draw. I really like the accuracy and stability perks though, I also have the Conviction from New Monarchy with more range perks and I find I miss more with it.

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Best Idea in 19 months.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 14:26 (2931 days ago) @ red robber
edited by Cody Miller, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 14:33

I'm not sure what to do with ammo upon death. Your idea is a great start. What about bringing ammo drops from dead players again?

To me, this was a GOOD thing. If one team monopolizes the heavy, the other team at least had a shot if they co-ordinated to kill a heavy wielder on the other team. If they could pull it off, then they can get some heavy and have a chance at a stopping a rampage. It also provided an incentive to not use heavy weapons all the time. If you died, you'd give the other team heavy!

Removing heavy drops actually created more imbalance in my opinion.The ultimate system would be what I suggested before: heavy only drops if you kill them with a primary or secondary. Preserves comeback chances, but tones down heavy domination sprees.

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Nah. Just let it drop.

by Funkmon @, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 14:40 (2931 days ago) @ Cody Miller

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:49 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN

Your post is obviously PvP related, but we need to talk about PvE as well.

I liked special weapons. They shouldn't go anywhere.

In terms of PvP, I think simply staying the course plus more conscientious map design would help a lot. I never saw specials as a huge problem until recently when snipers got more popular. Part of the problem is that scope flinch is actually fake. You always still aim at the middle of your screen. I think a great change would be to make the shot always go to your reticle.

PvE is a bit different. What if special weapons were the only weapons with elemental? What if all heavy and primaries were kinetic? Suddenly fusions rifles and shotguns would get a lot more useful.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:53 (2932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Your post is obviously PvP related, but we need to talk about PvE as well.

I liked special weapons. They shouldn't go anywhere.

In terms of PvP, I think simply staying the course plus more conscientious map design would help a lot. I never saw specials as a huge problem until recently when snipers got more popular. Part of the problem is that scope flinch is actually fake. You always still aim at the middle of your screen. I think a great change would be to make the shot always go to your reticle.

PvE is a bit different. What if special weapons were the only weapons with elemental? What if all heavy and primaries were kinetic? Suddenly fusions rifles and shotguns would get a lot more useful.

Yeah, It was a very Crucible-centric post. The current system feels far better suited to PvE than PvP.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 16:01 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN

Yeah, It was a very Crucible-centric post. The current system feels far better suited to PvE than PvP.

Why not have crucible game modes behave differently than PvE? I don't see the problem with treating them differently. Bungie could just have Shax specify some rules, like "you can either equip a secondary or a heavy"...

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 16:24 (2932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Part of the problem is that scope flinch is actually fake. You always still aim at the middle of your screen. I think a great change would be to make the shot always go to your reticle.

If changing the shot to go to where your reticle points is too hard to implement, maybe Bungie could add reticle bloom to snipers that expands after a shot/when getting shot? Personally I think snipers should be a lot harder to use when you are getting shot at. Instead shipers should be best used when the enemy doesn't know they are about to die.

Unfortunately I can't think of a good solution for the shotgun. The real problem with shotguns isn't their range, though it certainly feels that way. The real problem is lag. I'm convinced that when I see someone shotgun me from auto-rifle range, they aren't really at that range but simply appear that way due to lag. There isn't really a good way to fix that without completely changing how the networking of Destiny works.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by squidnh3, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:51 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN

I want to go back to Year 1. Plentiful ammo for everything. Lowering the use of powerful weapons has only made the most powerful ones stick out more.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:52 (2932 days ago) @ squidnh3

I want to go back to Year 1. Plentiful ammo for everything. Lowering the use of powerful weapons has only made the most powerful ones stick out more.

I kind of feel the same way. Obviously shotguns needed fixing, but House of Wolves was the best spot for PvP I think overall.

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Auto-rifles would like a word with you.

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:53 (2932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 15:53 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN

I'm not sure how Bungie drew the line between "Heavy" weapons and "special" weapons. They're all power weapons with varying strengths and weaknesses. And they all have situations where they can out-gun their counterparts.

I'm pretty sure that the biggest difference between 'Special' and 'Heavy' weapons is the need to aim in order to maximize the killing power.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 16:07 (2932 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I'm not sure how Bungie drew the line between "Heavy" weapons and "special" weapons. They're all power weapons with varying strengths and weaknesses. And they all have situations where they can out-gun their counterparts.


I'm pretty sure that the biggest difference between 'Special' and 'Heavy' weapons is the need to aim in order to maximize the killing power.

I always found it strange that snipers had the highest DPS in the game. The fact that people use their specials to rapidly damage bosses seems a bit weird…

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 16:50 (2932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I always found it strange that snipers had the highest DPS in the game. The fact that people use their specials to rapidly damage bosses seems a bit weird…

Yeah, Heavies are pretty underwhelming these days.

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Random ammo drops

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 17:03 (2932 days ago) @ ZackDark

In Halo, Bungie could design encounters with foreknowledge of what weapons and how much ammo the player could have picked up. Destiny's RNG ammo drops make this impossible, so they have to temper power weapons to prevent players from getting lucky and blowing through encounters.

That's my theory, anyway.

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But now Specials are powerhouse power-weapons

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 17:30 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN

Which still kind of defeats the purpose.

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But now Specials are powerhouse power-weapons

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 17:46 (2932 days ago) @ ZackDark

Which still kind of defeats the purpose.

I get where specials are supposed to be. One hit kills when they are where they are supposed to be.

Shotguns are one hit kills at close range.
Snipers are one hit precision kills.

Rockets are one hit kills when aimed decently well
Heavy machines guns are easy body shot kills

The problem is. Due to circumstances, Shotguns and snipers are getting to close to the heavy weapon side. This is due to Snipers being easy to hit even under fire and being about to snipe close range. Shotguns I mostly attribute to lag and ease of use abilities like blink and shadow step. When they fix the specials then heavies will seem more powerful. Also so will primaries.

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I think we were discussing PvE there, but I agree

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 19:12 (2932 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

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Divorce PvP and PvE

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 16:40 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN
edited by unoudid, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 17:33

I think we were at a good point for PvE before the last update. It's still not bad now. But I dislike the fact that we lose capacity for more RNG based ammo drops. What's the point now of having double sniper ammo armor if we only gain a few rounds? For the majority of the PvE side, I think we still need the 3-gun setup.

I think we could go to a primary only style setup for PvP. Just disable secondaries and heavies. Or eliminate ammo drops for them all together (you'd have to disable hot swap and other such perks from secondaries). I'm fine with Beard's idea of going primary + sidearm only setup.

Since there are so many OHK weapon options and the ammo is available nearly all the time (ice breaker & invective are still problems IMHO) I think these will always be the dominate weapons for the majority of players. If they lower the special ammo drop rates even more then Invective will just continue to grow in popularity until they nerf the ammo regen rate on it.

I'm still surprised they haven't made an MLG style playlist. Just give everyone a balanced setup with a base gun to equal out the TTK on various weapons. You'd have your choice of HC, Auto, Scout, Pulse.

In the end I think trying to balance PvE and PvP is a no-win situation.

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This.

by ProbablyLast, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 03:16 (2931 days ago) @ unoudid

Stop destroying guns because of PvP, please.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Mid7night ⌂ @, Rocket BSCHSHCSHSHCCHGGH!!!!!!, Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 18:47 (2932 days ago) @ CyberKN

I like the idea of a more true Primary/Secondary/Heavy arrangement. Where Primary & Secondary are all "primaries" as we know them today, but can be equipped and switched between on the fly, and the "Heavy" slot would include SR's, rockets, shotguns and fusions. Sidearms can go home.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 15:24 (2931 days ago) @ CyberKN

I actually like the 3 weapon system a lot, and think that the latest update did a great job of balancing special weapons in PvP to where I think they should be: a limited resource. I pick up every special ammo box in PvP that I can now, not because I'm running low, but because it actually limits the amount the enemy can pick up. Now sniping the whole match rarely works out unless the other team ignores you standing by a special ammo spawn the whole time, and even then you have to take your shots more carefully.

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 15:27 (2931 days ago) @ Xenos

I actually like the 3 weapon system a lot, and think that the latest update did a great job of balancing special weapons in PvP to where I think they should be: a limited resource. I pick up every special ammo box in PvP that I can now, not because I'm running low, but because it actually limits the amount the enemy can pick up. Now sniping the whole match rarely works out unless the other team ignores you standing by a special ammo spawn the whole time, and even then you have to take your shots more carefully.

I agree completely. But only beef is that I still don't think Snipers fit into their archetype. They are still used way more for mid-short range combat than they should. I feel like if snipers were put into their long range place then people would actually use fusion rifles.

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I agree that Sniper Rifles still aren't adjusted correctly.

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 15:53 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

They still need to zoom in farther. I argue that the Custom Optics perk on a sniper should be the lowest zoom available. If you use Patience & Time's Custom Optics, you are still MUCH further zoomed in than Ambush or Shortgaze (there might me others, but these two I know for sure).

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I agree that Sniper Rifles still aren't adjusted correctly.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:10 (2931 days ago) @ BeardFade

They still need to zoom in farther. I argue that the Custom Optics perk on a sniper should be the lowest zoom available. If you use Patience & Time's Custom Optics, you are still MUCH further zoomed in than Ambush or Shortgaze (there might me others, but these two I know for sure).

I'm perfectly okay with people scoped in sniping down a lane. Hold down a lane of approach is what snipers are meant for. I'm not okay with this. That should never happen with a sniper. I don't care how good a shot you are.

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I agree that Sniper Rifles still aren't adjusted correctly.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:21 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I think there should be a distance shorter of which precision shots do regular body damage (say, optimal Fusion Rifle range) and stronger zoom scopes to reflect that.

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I agree that Sniper Rifles still aren't adjusted correctly.

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:56 (2931 days ago) @ ZackDark

I think there should be a distance shorter of which precision shots do regular body damage (say, optimal Fusion Rifle range) and stronger zoom scopes to reflect that.

Negative-Friction Smart-matter rounds: The bullet's speed and lethality increase the farther it travels.

Ship it. Throw it into the Grimiore afterwards :P

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A deeply held belief of mine...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:26 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

They still need to zoom in farther. I argue that the Custom Optics perk on a sniper should be the lowest zoom available. If you use Patience & Time's Custom Optics, you are still MUCH further zoomed in than Ambush or Shortgaze (there might me others, but these two I know for sure).


I'm perfectly okay with people scoped in sniping down a lane. Hold down a lane of approach is what snipers are meant for. I'm not okay with this. That should never happen with a sniper. I don't care how good a shot you are.

No sniper rifle should have any form of aim-assist on it. 1000 Yard Stare is a borderline-broken weapon because of its ridiculous magnetism and aim assist, and it's on the list of weapons that I don't use out of principle.

Should you be able to snipe somebody a second after seeing them? Sure, if your aim and reflexes are true, and luck is on your side. Should you be able to hit the Aim button and pull the trigger for a nearly-guaranteed headshot just because the enemy is in front of you? Never. You shouldn't be able to just sit and zero in on a spot in front of you for a permanently head-level shot, either. This is why most games have a sway to the sniper scope.

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Nah, we're still playing on console, we need aim assist

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 17:31 (2931 days ago) @ Korny

Tweak it, sure, but don't downright nullify it.

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Plenty of console games have no aim assist.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 17:43 (2931 days ago) @ ZackDark

Tweak it, sure, but don't downright nullify it.

Heck, Treyarch's Call of Duty games have Aim Assist, but give players the option to disable it altogether (and Sammy and I do).

Still, my issue is with Sniper Rifles having it. Want to keep it on Primaries? That's fine. Just disable it for Specials, or at least get rid of the magnetism.

I agree that Sniper Rifles still aren't adjusted correctly.

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:43 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

They still need to zoom in farther. I argue that the Custom Optics perk on a sniper should be the lowest zoom available. If you use Patience & Time's Custom Optics, you are still MUCH further zoomed in than Ambush or Shortgaze (there might me others, but these two I know for sure).


I'm perfectly okay with people scoped in sniping down a lane. Hold down a lane of approach is what snipers are meant for. I'm not okay with this. That should never happen with a sniper. I don't care how good a shot you are.

Heh - I've done that out of panic a few times, and it's been awesome. :)

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Don't make me disown you Claude

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 16:55 (2931 days ago) @ Claude Errera

- No text -

:D

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 17:13 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

- No text -

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19 months in, I'm still skeptical of Destiny's 3-gun system.

by Funkmon @, Wednesday, April 27, 2016, 17:24 (2931 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I think snipers are fine, maybe a bit too nerfed, objectively. Dump the aim assist, get less zoom, add field scout back in, all that jazz. Just make fusion rifles good. I don't like nerfing this stuff, it ruins the normal game.

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