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Here we go again? (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, May 20, 2016, 14:16 (2906 days ago)

Destiny 2 has been rebooted

I know many of us have mixed feelings about Kotaku, but it's worth keeping in mind that every Destiny leak they've reported has been proven accurate (I'm talking about expansions and dates, not the nitty gritty "what happened to Destiny?" article).

Kotaku has reported that Destiny 2 has been rebooted as part of internal shuffling at Bungie, with Luke Smith taking lead control of the game. If this proves to be correct, I have mixed feelings. Smith did a great job leading the team on TTK. On the flip side, yet another late reboot makes me nervous. As always, we'll have to wait and see if this is true.

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Here we go again?

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Friday, May 20, 2016, 14:19 (2906 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

On the flip side, yet another late reboot makes me nervous.

Ditto.

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Nintendo?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, May 20, 2016, 14:31 (2906 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I say clickbait.

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Nintendo?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, May 20, 2016, 14:41 (2906 days ago) @ Kermit

I say clickbait.

I'm not so sure. Nintendo is fully aware that lack of 3rd party support hurts them. When the Wii-U launched, they made a big push to acquire top-tier AAA 3rd party titles like Mass Effect 3, Arkham City, and CoD. I would totally expect Nintendo to come out swinging with an NX announcement by having a long list of 3rd-party titles and publishers lined up and "on board".

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Nintendo?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, May 20, 2016, 14:48 (2906 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I'm not so sure. Nintendo is fully aware that lack of 3rd party support hurts them.

Does it, though?

I feel like it's too little, too late for Nintendo. I don't see many people jumping ship from PS4 or Xbox One just because Nintendo finally pulled its head out of its ass and decided to make a console that has some sort of parity with the other two after more than a decade. But we still don't even actually know what the NX is, so maybe that's not even true.

I still wish they'd just go the Sega route and stop making consoles and become a publisher. I want to play the new Zelda, but not enough that I'm going to drop hundreds of dollars on a console.

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Nintendo?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, May 20, 2016, 14:53 (2906 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I'm not so sure. Nintendo is fully aware that lack of 3rd party support hurts them.


Does it, though?

I feel like it's too little, too late for Nintendo. I don't see many people jumping ship from PS4 or Xbox One just because Nintendo finally pulled its head out of its ass and decided to make a console that has some sort of parity with the other two after more than a decade. But we still don't even actually know what the NX is, so maybe that's not even true.

I still wish they'd just go the Sega route and stop making consoles and become a publisher. I want to play the new Zelda, but not enough that I'm going to drop hundreds of dollars on a console.

In the long run, yes it does IMO. The complete lack of 3rd party support on Nintendo consoles turns them into a great choice for someone's 2nd console, but rarely do they win the "if I can only pick 1 console" battle. Back in the N64 days, they had just enough 3rd party support to bolster their phenomenal 1st and 2nd party lineups and do quite well overall. The Wii was lightning in a bottle for a couple years, but the floor fell out from under them quite quickly there. And the Wii-U has been a pretty clear failure. Their 1st party lineup isn't as stellar as it once was, and they don't have in-their-prime Rare to back them up anymore. They need strong 3rd party support if they ever want to convince the larger gamer market to buy an NX instead of a PS4 or Xbox.

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Nintendo?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, May 20, 2016, 15:25 (2906 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I'm not so sure. Nintendo is fully aware that lack of 3rd party support hurts them.


Does it, though?

I feel like it's too little, too late for Nintendo. I don't see many people jumping ship from PS4 or Xbox One just because Nintendo finally pulled its head out of its ass and decided to make a console that has some sort of parity with the other two after more than a decade. But we still don't even actually know what the NX is, so maybe that's not even true.

I still wish they'd just go the Sega route and stop making consoles and become a publisher. I want to play the new Zelda, but not enough that I'm going to drop hundreds of dollars on a console.


In the long run, yes it does IMO. The complete lack of 3rd party support on Nintendo consoles turns them into a great choice for someone's 2nd console, but rarely do they win the "if I can only pick 1 console" battle. Back in the N64 days, they had just enough 3rd party support to bolster their phenomenal 1st and 2nd party lineups and do quite well overall. The Wii was lightning in a bottle for a couple years, but the floor fell out from under them quite quickly there. And the Wii-U has been a pretty clear failure. Their 1st party lineup isn't as stellar as it once was, and they don't have in-their-prime Rare to back them up anymore. They need strong 3rd party support if they ever want to convince the larger gamer market to buy an NX instead of a PS4 or Xbox.

I guess that's sort of my point. I think it's too late for them to do that. 40 million people already own PS4s, and nearly half as many own Xbox Ones. I don't see many making the jump to NX over a PS4 Neo at this point, because Nintendo has such a terrible track record at this point. The N64 was the last console they had that was even close to having parity with the other consoles. The Gamecube was okay--it at least had 3rd party games, even if they were sub-par ports compared to their PS2 and Xbox versions.

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Nintendo?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, May 20, 2016, 15:43 (2906 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I want to play the new Zelda, but not enough that I'm going to drop hundreds of dollars on a console.

Having been an old school Zelda fan myself, the new Zeldas are pretty shit. It's like they are trying to copy the elements of Zelda without understanding why they were there and why they worked. It's been that way for a long time so I've heard.

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Nintendo?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, May 20, 2016, 15:50 (2906 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I want to play the new Zelda, but not enough that I'm going to drop hundreds of dollars on a console.


Having been an old school Zelda fan myself, the new Zeldas are pretty shit. It's like they are trying to copy the elements of Zelda without understanding why they were there and why they worked. It's been that way for a long time so I've heard.

Wind Waker was the last truly good 3D Zelda, in my opinion, which is a shame since it was only the third one. Twilight Princess was mediocre at best, and Skyward Sword was so bad I didn't even finish it.

I think the handheld Zelda's are better than the console Zeldas at this point. A Link Between Worlds was fantastic.

Reboot or Reimagining?

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Friday, May 20, 2016, 15:08 (2906 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I'm not totally skeptical of the idea that they are rethinking/reworking destiny 2. Bungie seems to have the philosophy of not being afraid of throwing something out or not going with something no matter how much time has already been thrown at it if they feel something is not working. I can think of the original halo 2 that showed at E3 but was completely different from the release version; they threw out almost everything except the core concepts and artwork and started over. plus there were all the stories of stuff that was cut from the original Destiny; either because it didn't work or it no longer fit with the story they were now telling or they just no longer thought they had the time to finish it with all the other things to do.

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Reboot or Reimagining?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, May 20, 2016, 15:13 (2906 days ago) @ CougRon

I'm not totally skeptical of the idea that they are rethinking/reworking destiny 2. Bungie seems to have the philosophy of not being afraid of throwing something out or not going with something no matter how much time has already been thrown at it if they feel something is not working. I can think of the original halo 2 that showed at E3 but was completely different from the release version; they threw out almost everything except the core concepts and artwork and started over. plus there were all the stories of stuff that was cut from the original Destiny; either because it didn't work or it no longer fit with the story they were now telling or they just no longer thought they had the time to finish it with all the other things to do.

The only thing that makes me concerned is time, or more specifically, the lack of it. I'm all for rebooting/re-imagining, except in cases where the team doesn't have enough time to backtrack, complete the product, and still meet their target. Obviously we know nothing about the extent of this supposed reboot, how much time and work is being lost, etc. It may be way more minor than what happened to Destiny 1.

Ditto

by yakaman, Friday, May 20, 2016, 15:22 (2906 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I'm not totally skeptical of the idea that they are rethinking/reworking destiny 2. Bungie seems to have the philosophy of not being afraid of throwing something out or not going with something no matter how much time has already been thrown at it if they feel something is not working. I can think of the original halo 2 that showed at E3 but was completely different from the release version; they threw out almost everything except the core concepts and artwork and started over. plus there were all the stories of stuff that was cut from the original Destiny; either because it didn't work or it no longer fit with the story they were now telling or they just no longer thought they had the time to finish it with all the other things to do.


The only thing that makes me concerned is time, or more specifically, the lack of it. I'm all for rebooting/re-imagining, except in cases where the team doesn't have enough time to backtrack, complete the product, and still meet their target. Obviously we know nothing about the extent of this supposed reboot, how much time and work is being lost, etc. It may be way more minor than what happened to Destiny 1.

TTK was the best of Destiny and I think in general Luke would do a good job. Most speculation puts Des2iny around...Q4 of 2017? Is that right? If so, that's a lot to squeeze into roughly 6 quarters.

I liked Destiny. I feel like each expansion thereafter was a step in the right direction. The progression was continuous. Whatever their choices going forward, I hope they have enough time to implement.

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Ditto

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Saturday, May 21, 2016, 06:12 (2905 days ago) @ yakaman

If so, that's a lot to squeeze into roughly 6 quarters.

Just pointing out that the only thing which has less evidence supporting it than the "leak" itself, is this assumption that the supposed reboot/re-org/whatever is happening NOW. If it's a real thing at all, it probably happened sometime in the past. Presumably after TTK, though.

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Ditto

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Saturday, May 21, 2016, 09:54 (2905 days ago) @ stabbim

If so, that's a lot to squeeze into roughly 6 quarters.


Just pointing out that the only thing which has less evidence supporting it than the "leak" itself, is this assumption that the supposed reboot/re-org/whatever is happening NOW. If it's a real thing at all, it probably happened sometime in the past. Presumably after TTK, though.

If I had to guess, I'd say the most likely scenario would be that the reboot and internal shuffling happened after Harold Ryan's departure. New guy running the studio seems like the most likely time for things to get shaken up. But that's just a guess, of course, and who knows if any of this is even true.

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Here we go again?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, May 20, 2016, 15:25 (2906 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Kotaku has reported that Destiny 2 has been rebooted as part of internal shuffling at Bungie, with Luke Smith taking lead control of the game. If this proves to be correct, I have mixed feelings. Smith did a great job leading the team on TTK. On the flip side, yet another late reboot makes me nervous. As always, we'll have to wait and see if this is true.

I would think of it this way:

If something is working then there'd be no need to reboot anything. So to stay the course would probably be more disappointing. By delaying and rebooting, they can at least lay a better foundation moving forward.

The Doom reboot apparently worked out fantastically. The Uncharted 4 story alterations 8 months before release seem to have worked well.

My hope is that the reboot is a complete shift in the design of the game away from investment elements, and towards kick ass experiences.

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More like reimagining

by Durandal, Friday, May 20, 2016, 16:21 (2906 days ago) @ Cody Miller

For D2, I imagine they are not working so much on the engine, and it's more confined to tool and asset development. That they should be able to shuffle about more quickly then currently, and if it leads to a more coherent, integrated story I think we will all benefit from it.

As much as I would like to see some Skyrim style random quest lines amongst the hand polished main quest and cutscenes, if they just kept the current framework but added more game modes/content I think most people would be happy.

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More like reimagining

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Saturday, May 21, 2016, 06:17 (2905 days ago) @ Durandal

I'm not so sure. It's pretty widely assumed that Destiny was held back a bit by the last-gen consoles. With the sequel presumably being current-gen only, it might make sense to start over on the technical side. Unless the "engine" scales extremely well, and it's just a matter of turning the metaphorical dials up, I guess.

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More like reimagining

by Durandal, Saturday, May 21, 2016, 20:02 (2905 days ago) @ stabbim

The last ten consoles were the big limiter on draw distance and memory, both of which they should be able to scale in the current engine without recoding.

Given the leaps we saw in the Halo series, each game had progressively larger "arenas" and within engine enhancements, but they didn't scrap and redevelop the whole engine or the networking model. Destiny 2 more likely has changes to the presentation of missions, maps and game modes.

Look at the trends in the current game:

1. More story

This is something everyone is clamoring for. Destiny has a superb background, but most people only touch a fraction of it. We've been getting more story, in terms of missions, NPC dialog, and collectables in each expansion, and each expansion has upped the bar.

2. More variation on content:

POE is childs play vs. a raid, but it does represent a system of rotating in mission content. This along with the strike changes to somewhat random enemies and bosses, IB changing modes, and the court of Oryx, indicates an effort to make rerunning activities less repetitive. If we could extend that further, into patrols and public events in Destiny 2, and make the changes more significant each run, it vastly improves the experience.

3. New types of content:

SRL, Doubles, Bungie is starting to put more effort into unique, one off or rare events. We should see more of that in the future since people seem to pretty heavily play the unique modes while they are live.

None of that requires a complete engine overhaul. If anything, it's more of a back end deal with Bungie's support and content development groups.

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