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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky (Gaming)

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 13:09 (2764 days ago)

This has the potential to be a significant development with regards to the entire gaming industry:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-09-28-ad-watchdog-looking-at-no-mans-sky

This line jumped out at me:

"The Reddit user who posted about the ASA's response, AzzerUK, told Eurogamer he was more interested in bringing games marketing in general back down to earth moreso than seeking retribution against No Man's Sky or Hello Games specifically."

I am all for this. We all know games change drastically over the course of development. I doubt any of us would give any developer a hard time for talking about features they are exploring or working on, and then seeing those features cut before release. The problem, as I see it, is when those features are used to sell a game, and then no mention is made of them being cut before release. I'd love to see the industry spend less time marketing games that are still 6-12 months away from release. Let devs get things into a more finalized state before releasing the big marketing campaign begins.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 13:31 (2764 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

This could go either way. If the watchdog finds them guilty of fraud, that's good for gaming to be sure, but if the watchdog lets it go that will essentially give a pass to all game devs to lie their way to sales.

As I always say: Do not pre-order.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 13:42 (2764 days ago) @ Kahzgul

This could go either way. If the watchdog finds them guilty of fraud, that's good for gaming to be sure, but if the watchdog lets it go that will essentially give a pass to all game devs to lie their way to sales.

Letting it go would honestly be better for us.

If they nailed Hello games, the result would be that developers would simply be more vague in their marketing. That way, if no specific promises are made, there's no way to lie or mislead everyone. You only get in trouble if you make specific claims that turn out not to be true.

So they'd be vague and not really commit to telling us anything substantial.

More vague than NMS? Is that even possible?

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 15:18 (2764 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Isn't that business as usual?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 16:15 (2764 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Game advertisements haven't been truthful or worth paying attention to for at least five years now.

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Do what I always say: pre order if you want.

by Funkmon @, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 15:17 (2764 days ago) @ Kahzgul

If you know you're going to buy a game in the first week regardless, just pre order the stupid thing if you want to.

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Do what I always say: pre order if you want.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 17:50 (2763 days ago) @ Funkmon

If you know you're going to buy a game in the first week regardless, just pre order the stupid thing if you want to.

Or just pre order the day before.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 13:37 (2764 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I don't know why marketing begins so early. Do you really sell more games if you advertise 18 months out vs 4? Marketing tie ins might have to be arranged sooner, but those can be done without announcing or explaining your game to the public.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 13:55 (2764 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I don't know why marketing begins so early. Do you really sell more games if you advertise 18 months out vs 4? Marketing tie ins might have to be arranged sooner, but those can be done without announcing or explaining your game to the public.

It's about securing the sale as early as possible. Game preorders have been around long enough now that publishers can get a sense of what their total sales are going to be based on the number of preorders. So it helps publishers and developers with financial forecasting and stuff like that. Plus, there's the fact that if a customer decides that they want to buy a game, they are less likely to cancel a preorder than they are to just change their mind about picking it up on launch day. There's a "the money has already been spent, so I may as well get it" mentality that comes into play here. It's the same reason that I get a deposit from any customer that wants me to special order something for them. When I take a deposit, the customer will come in and pick up their order when it arrives almost every single time, with the rare cancellation. But if I order something for a customer and I don't take a deposit, the odds are closer to 70/30 in favor of them not coming in to pick it up.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 14:12 (2764 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

This has the potential to be a significant development with regards to the entire gaming industry:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-09-28-ad-watchdog-looking-at-no-mans-sky

This line jumped out at me:

"The Reddit user who posted about the ASA's response, AzzerUK, told Eurogamer he was more interested in bringing games marketing in general back down to earth moreso than seeking retribution against No Man's Sky or Hello Games specifically."

I am all for this. We all know games change drastically over the course of development. I doubt any of us would give any developer a hard time for talking about features they are exploring or working on, and then seeing those features cut before release.

Yeah... that never happens...

The problem, as I see it, is when those features are used to sell a game, and then no mention is made of them being cut before release. I'd love to see the industry spend less time marketing games that are still 6-12 months away from release. Let devs get things into a more finalized state before releasing the big marketing campaign begins.

Absolutely agree! I was fairly shocked at Destiny's initial marketing launch. We got what? A few scene paintings, a nice video, and less than a minute of actual gameplay. And we also got a preorder button. For a game whose features were unknown. Whose gameplay was unknown. Whose size and scope was unknown. Whose story was unknown.

I would rather the marketing only start a few months out, when the game is close enough to being finished that specific features and scopes are unlikely to change. Less marketing ramp up and less development secrecy, I think and hope that's the way forward.

Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by petetheduck, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 14:51 (2764 days ago) @ Ragashingo

This has the potential to be a significant development with regards to the entire gaming industry:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-09-28-ad-watchdog-looking-at-no-mans-sky

This line jumped out at me:

"The Reddit user who posted about the ASA's response, AzzerUK, told Eurogamer he was more interested in bringing games marketing in general back down to earth moreso than seeking retribution against No Man's Sky or Hello Games specifically."

I am all for this. We all know games change drastically over the course of development. I doubt any of us would give any developer a hard time for talking about features they are exploring or working on, and then seeing those features cut before release.


Yeah... that never happens...

The problem, as I see it, is when those features are used to sell a game, and then no mention is made of them being cut before release. I'd love to see the industry spend less time marketing games that are still 6-12 months away from release. Let devs get things into a more finalized state before releasing the big marketing campaign begins.


Absolutely agree! I was fairly shocked at Destiny's initial marketing launch. We got what? A few scene paintings, a nice video, and less than a minute of actual gameplay. And we also got a preorder button. For a game whose features were unknown. Whose gameplay was unknown. Whose size and scope was unknown. Whose story was unknown.

I would rather the marketing only start a few months out, when the game is close enough to being finished that specific features and scopes are unlikely to change. Less marketing ramp up and less development secrecy, I think and hope that's the way forward.

I don't think you're considering how marketing works. Commercials on TV aren't trying to get you to pick up your keys and get in the car and go buy that toothpaste right then and there.

The other side of this is that Bungie didn't need to sell me on Destiny because Bungie had already sold me on Bungie. Fans want information on future releases sooner than later. They aren't using that information to make a purchase decision.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 16:24 (2764 days ago) @ petetheduck

This has the potential to be a significant development with regards to the entire gaming industry:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-09-28-ad-watchdog-looking-at-no-mans-sky

This line jumped out at me:

"The Reddit user who posted about the ASA's response, AzzerUK, told Eurogamer he was more interested in bringing games marketing in general back down to earth moreso than seeking retribution against No Man's Sky or Hello Games specifically."

I am all for this. We all know games change drastically over the course of development. I doubt any of us would give any developer a hard time for talking about features they are exploring or working on, and then seeing those features cut before release.


Yeah... that never happens...

The problem, as I see it, is when those features are used to sell a game, and then no mention is made of them being cut before release. I'd love to see the industry spend less time marketing games that are still 6-12 months away from release. Let devs get things into a more finalized state before releasing the big marketing campaign begins.


Absolutely agree! I was fairly shocked at Destiny's initial marketing launch. We got what? A few scene paintings, a nice video, and less than a minute of actual gameplay. And we also got a preorder button. For a game whose features were unknown. Whose gameplay was unknown. Whose size and scope was unknown. Whose story was unknown.

I would rather the marketing only start a few months out, when the game is close enough to being finished that specific features and scopes are unlikely to change. Less marketing ramp up and less development secrecy, I think and hope that's the way forward.


I don't think you're considering how marketing works. Commercials on TV aren't trying to get you to pick up your keys and get in the car and go buy that toothpaste right then and there.

The other side of this is that Bungie didn't need to sell me on Destiny because Bungie had already sold me on Bungie. Fans want information on future releases sooner than later. They aren't using that information to make a purchase decision.

For me, I needed to be sold on Destiny. If Destiny had been a straight up subscription MMO, I never would have even played it. It wasn't until I played the game pre-alpha then eventually longer in the alpha did I know it was worthwhile.

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Marketing vs Release

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 14:25 (2764 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 14:28 (2764 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I think No Man's Sky is unique, and I honestly have a little sympathy for Hello Games. I don't think they realized how their initial reveal would capture so many people's imaginations, and after that the pressure to feed the hype train was too great, and I honestly don't believe that pressure came from within Hello Games. I don't think features were hawked with the intent to deceive, but they weren't able to execute on every "feature" they mentioned by ship date.

Had No Man's Sky stayed under the radar (and perhaps been a slightly cheaper digital-only release), I think people would be blown away by it. Did they set out to make a AAA game with Collector's editions, bonuses, talk show appearances and all that jazz? I don't think so. Size is the complicating factor when it comes to categorizing it, though, and was always going to be bullet point for the game. No Man's Sky is an infinitely large small game.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 14:46 (2764 days ago) @ Kermit

I think No Man's Sky is unique, and I honestly have a little sympathy for Hello Games. I don't think they realized how their initial reveal would capture so many people's imaginations, and after that the pressure to feed the hype train was too great, and I honestly don't believe that pressure came from within Hello Games. I don't think features were hawked with the intent to deceive, but they weren't able to execute on every "feature" they mentioned by ship date.

Had No Man's Sky stayed under the radar (and perhaps been a slightly cheaper digital-only release), I think people would be blown away by it. Did they set out to make a AAA game with Collector's editions, bonuses, talk show appearances and all that jazz? I don't think so. Size is the complicating factor when it comes to categorizing it, though, and was always going to be bullet point for the game. No Man's Sky is an infinitely large small game.

I mostly agree. The vast majority of the hype was just fanboys making things up and telling other people it would be in the game. "OMG I can't wait to be a space pirate and rule star systems!" Yeah dude, that's not a thing in this game. It's not even close to a thing. "I'm gonna get all my friends and we're gonna travel together everywhere!" Well, no, you're not.

BUT they did lie about some pretty major things. Saying you could see other players if you met them, showing us plants that moved when large creatures charged past, showing us functional portals in the game... All lies. Pretty blatant ones, too. I'll buy that maybe the portals were in the game originally, but were later removed, but HG knew their E3 footage was a pre-render and they presented it as live gameplay, and they knew you couldn't see other people because there was no character model in the game, but they perpetuated that lie.

Unfortunately, the scope of the game and sheer mind-blowing size of the tech got lost beneath these few but significant actual lies and then the heaps of make-believe people put on top of it.

I think this game presents a watershed moment for video games and I think we'll see far more refined games in similarly generated worlds in the near future (2-3 years for fully realized games, I think).

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 16:10 (2764 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Unfortunately, the scope of the game and sheer mind-blowing size of the tech got lost beneath these few but significant actual lies and then the heaps of make-believe people put on top of it.

I didn't even buy the game because I knew it would suck. Huh, how did I know? Oh, wait. I have a head on my shoulders. I can understand people's anger, but how did everyone not see it was bullshit to begin with? It was plain as day when he said the universe was procedurally generated and there were more planets than grains of sand on the beach.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 16:37 (2764 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Unfortunately, the scope of the game and sheer mind-blowing size of the tech got lost beneath these few but significant actual lies and then the heaps of make-believe people put on top of it.


I didn't even buy the game because I knew it would suck. Huh, how did I know? Oh, wait. I have a head on my shoulders. I can understand people's anger, but how did everyone not see it was bullshit to begin with? It was plain as day when he said the universe was procedurally generated and there were more planets than grains of sand on the beach.

You're wrong, Cody. The game does not suck and that is an absolute fact and it's completely obvious to EVERYONE WITH A HEAD ON THEIR SHOULDERS.

I have a question for YOU: How do you not know what a jerk you sound like?

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 17:28 (2763 days ago) @ Kermit
edited by Cody Miller, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 17:31

Unfortunately, the scope of the game and sheer mind-blowing size of the tech got lost beneath these few but significant actual lies and then the heaps of make-believe people put on top of it.


I didn't even buy the game because I knew it would suck. Huh, how did I know? Oh, wait. I have a head on my shoulders. I can understand people's anger, but how did everyone not see it was bullshit to begin with? It was plain as day when he said the universe was procedurally generated and there were more planets than grains of sand on the beach.


You're wrong, Cody. The game does not suck and that is an absolute fact and it's completely obvious to EVERYONE WITH A HEAD ON THEIR SHOULDERS.

I have a question for YOU: How do you not know what a jerk you sound like?

LOL. Of course I do.

But no, the game does in fact suck for the majority of people who played it. I won't hold it against you if you like the game, because I myself like some pretty bad games.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 17:28 (2763 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It was plain as day when he said the universe was procedurally generated and there were more planets than grains of sand on the beach.

What does that have to do with whether or not portals and player-player networking are implemented?

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 17:34 (2763 days ago) @ uberfoop

It was plain as day when he said the universe was procedurally generated and there were more planets than grains of sand on the beach.


What does that have to do with whether or not portals and player-player networking are implemented?

Nothing, but I get the sense that a large part of the disappointment was the promise of a huge universe where you could do anything you wanted. I remember the marketing stressing the fact that you could play the game however you want. It turns out, that's not really the case and the alternate ways to play that there are are phenomenally boring.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 18:56 (2763 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I think No Man's Sky is unique, and I honestly have a little sympathy for Hello Games. I don't think they realized how their initial reveal would capture so many people's imaginations, and after that the pressure to feed the hype train was too great, and I honestly don't believe that pressure came from within Hello Games. I don't think features were hawked with the intent to deceive, but they weren't able to execute on every "feature" they mentioned by ship date.

Had No Man's Sky stayed under the radar (and perhaps been a slightly cheaper digital-only release), I think people would be blown away by it. Did they set out to make a AAA game with Collector's editions, bonuses, talk show appearances and all that jazz? I don't think so. Size is the complicating factor when it comes to categorizing it, though, and was always going to be bullet point for the game. No Man's Sky is an infinitely large small game.


I mostly agree. The vast majority of the hype was just fanboys making things up and telling other people it would be in the game. "OMG I can't wait to be a space pirate and rule star systems!" Yeah dude, that's not a thing in this game. It's not even close to a thing. "I'm gonna get all my friends and we're gonna travel together everywhere!" Well, no, you're not.

Totally agree. I think the majority of people fell victim to the fanboy hype. I got exactly what I was expecting out of the game and I've really enjoyed the time spent messing around in game. I think a lot of "missing features" have been taken from comments that were either taken out of context or blown out of proportion. There were some legitimate things that just didn't happen, like being able to see someone else, but he did say you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them & an AI so... yeah, he made some mistakes of over promising, and I'm sure he's learned a lesson regarding what the internet will do with the words you utter.

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Ad watchdog looking at No Man's Sky

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 15:07 (2764 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

This has the potential to be a significant development with regards to the entire gaming industry:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-09-28-ad-watchdog-looking-at-no-mans-sky

This line jumped out at me:

"The Reddit user who posted about the ASA's response, AzzerUK, told Eurogamer he was more interested in bringing games marketing in general back down to earth moreso than seeking retribution against No Man's Sky or Hello Games specifically."

It's about Ethics in Game Journalism! No, wait, that's from something else.

Advertising in the United Kingdom is very different than it is in the rest of the English-speaking world or, from my knowledge the rest of the Western world. They don't allow for what our courts call "puffery" and so they have very strict requirements and expectations for accuracy in advertising. Localizing advertising is an easy cost of a big studio and those are the ones most likely to take this sort of thing into account. Even if this went anywhere, I think the effect would be limited just to United Kingdom.

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