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Aksis music more intimidating than the actual boss. (Destiny)

by Funkmon @, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 15:12 (2763 days ago)

https://youtu.be/WAaLfkiR6bg

The boss just sits there. He moves kinda but doesn't really do anything. He doesn't actually kill us, the adds kill us. His wipe thing is so predictable and long we are in almost NO danger of dying. All deaths seem to be from the adds.

Even the first guy isn't intimidating. He runs around while we're running around and does almost nothing. The second time it's also basically nothing.

To me, I like the raid, and I like how forgiving it is, but compared to the ogres in the bridge on Crota, or Ir Yut's song, or any of the dudes in Vault of Ass, or even Warpriest and Sisters and Oryx, I feel absolutely no "oh no, bad guy is doing something," dread.

Some guy on Reddit redid the soundtrack track, and it occurred to me that the music was a lot scarier than the boss, especially the wipe music. Why is that? Is it just me?

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Dread for Bridge Ogres or Ir Yut?

by ProbablyLast, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 15:18 (2763 days ago) @ Funkmon

Child please.

First run through Abyss, maybe.

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Dude. Bridge ogres were rough and Ir Yut's timer was srs.

by Funkmon @, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 15:26 (2763 days ago) @ ProbablyLast

She forced a lot of wipes from that timer and the ogres were hard as butts. Instant stress when they showed up.

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Weird. I remember zero actual wipes from the timer.

by ProbablyLast, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 15:28 (2763 days ago) @ Funkmon
edited by ProbablyLast, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 15:32

But on topic, the new raid's most dread inducing encounter is the Archpriest because you are counting on people being able to tell left from right.

Which is surprisingly difficult in some cases.

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Weird. I remember zero actual wipes from the timer.

by Funkmon @, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 17:54 (2763 days ago) @ ProbablyLast

It happened regularly, which is why we all endured Blackstar or someone sniping all the yellow knights for 25 minutes at the end, because getting past her was hard as butts in the first month or two.

Also it's surprising how big of a deal knowing left from right is in the end fight as well.

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Hard Mode was only hard because lvl 33.

by ProbablyLast, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 18:22 (2763 days ago) @ Funkmon

Who knows, maybe when they make hard mode level 420 (blaze it) everything will be hard for artificial reasons.

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I will re evaluate my opinion at that point.

by Funkmon @, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 18:58 (2763 days ago) @ ProbablyLast

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I don't understand

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 15:45 (2763 days ago) @ Funkmon

Almost none of the raid bosses are particularly foreboding by themselves. Almost all of them rely on a secondary mechanic that is what actually kills you.

  • Templar was just an oversized Hydra - it was the Oracles that were a problem
  • Atheon technically teleported you, but didn't do much himself - supplicants and minotaurs were the most common cause of wipes.
  • Bridge ogres were a just adds. I don't understand the comparison. They're certainly no harder than the Scorch Captains
  • Ir Yut does literally nothing. The entire fight is a glorified countdown timer. If Aksis' wipe mechanics don't count, why does hers?
  • Crota was a forboding boss. Definitely. Giant, with an instakill attack and you had to get right in his face? Scary.
  • The Warpriest did nothing - Literally stands there shooting at you like any Strike boss
  • Golgoroth had the orbs he'd spit at you, which Id say probably count
  • Oryx mostly climbs around like a giant space monkey - again, it's the adds that tend to kill you. He does have the stagger mechanic but so does Aksis.
  • Archpriest, like the Warpriest, just stands there.
  • Zamboni is foreboding because it will literally crush your puny forms

    So out of all of them, we get three bosses where "the bad guy is doing something" (excluding Ir Yut and Oryx, because their "something" is the same as Aksis' something).
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I don't understand

by Funkmon @, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 17:52 (2763 days ago) @ someotherguy

Almost none of the raid bosses are particularly foreboding by themselves. Almost all of them rely on a secondary mechanic that is what actually kills you.

  • Templar was just an oversized Hydra - it was the Oracles that were a problem

Who could shoot the shit outta you, and he did kill you when you screwed up the oracles. The Oracles were a safety thing, like if we had to shoot the pillars to save ourselves from Aksis's whatever. The oracles were also lights that dinged. They didn't feel like enemies to me.

[*]Atheon technically teleported you, but didn't do much himself - supplicants and minotaurs were the most common cause of wipes.

Yeah but he looked scary and moved around.

[*]Bridge ogres were a just adds. I don't understand the comparison. They're certainly no harder than the Scorch Captains

They're definitely scarier, and caused more wipes for our team.

[*]Ir Yut does literally nothing. The entire fight is a glorified countdown timer. If Aksis' wipe mechanics don't count, why does hers?

Because hers actually caused tons of wipes for us, so it was scary.

[*]Crota was a forboding boss. Definitely. Giant, with an instakill attack and you had to get right in his face? Scary.
[*]The Warpriest did nothing - Literally stands there shooting at you like any Strike boss

He looks scary and has ruined a lot of runs by shooting the guy on the right.

[*]Golgoroth had the orbs he'd spit at you, which Id say probably count

And he looks scary.

[*]Oryx mostly climbs around like a giant space monkey - again, it's the adds that tend to kill you. He does have the stagger mechanic but so does Aksis.

True, but he looks scary, feels scary, and we have to actually shoot the guy to do damage. For Aksis, it feels more like basketball.

[*]Archpriest, like the Warpriest, just stands there.

Yeah, and he's never killed me. Also doesn't look scary.

[*]Zamboni is foreboding because it will literally crush your puny forms

Death Zamboni is scary, good point.

So out of all of them, we get three bosses where "the bad guy is doing something" (excluding Ir Yut and Oryx, because their "something" is the same as Aksis' something).

I don't think they're equivalent. Aksis's something is

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So TLDR of thread: Funkmon doesn't think Aksis LOOKS scary

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 17:59 (2763 days ago) @ Funkmon

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Also he doesn't do anything scary.

by Funkmon @, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 18:58 (2763 days ago) @ Xenos

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Also he doesn't do anything scary.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 19:11 (2763 days ago) @ Funkmon

Right but even in your list your major points on most of them is they look scary or that they cause a wipe. The whole point of the Aksis fight is that SIVA is the threat, Aksis is just the focal point, hence the main mechanic behind dying is the inevitable SIVA overload if you fail that kills you all. In the previous raids the big bad IS the big bad (and even then, they don't directly wipe you).

I actually find the look of Aksis much creepier than any of the previous end bosses in Raids. Atheon is just a guy, Crota is just big knight, Oryx is intimidating, but not exactly scary. And I very rarely died from ANY of them with the exception of Crota when I was the swordbearer. For 99% of my final encounters in raids the bad guy is not the least bit scary. He may cause a wipe, but it's almost always because of some wipe mechanic, and not because of them being directly threatening.

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Also he doesn't do anything scary.

by Funkmon @, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 19:45 (2762 days ago) @ Xenos

Right but even in your list your major points on most of them is they look scary or that they cause a wipe. The whole point of the Aksis fight is that SIVA is the threat, Aksis is just the focal point, hence the main mechanic behind dying is the inevitable SIVA overload if you fail that kills you all.

Right.

In the previous raids the big bad IS the big bad (and even then, they don't directly wipe you).

Crota doesn't, the other two definitely do.


I actually find the look of Aksis much creepier than any of the previous end bosses in Raids.

I understand your opinion.

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Also he doesn't do anything scary.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 19:53 (2762 days ago) @ Funkmon

In the previous raids the big bad IS the big bad (and even then, they don't directly wipe you).

Crota doesn't, the other two definitely do.

How is Oryx's and Atheon's different than Crota's? Crota calls his Oversoul, Oryx uses King's Grasp, and Atheon you're lost to time. If you're saying they directly wipe you and Crota and Aksis don't, that's purely semantics. If that were true then they could make Aksis scarier by just saying "Aksis glowers at you until you die" instead of the current "SIVA Overload Detected" or whatever it says.

I actually find the look of Aksis much creepier than any of the previous end bosses in Raids.


I understand your opinion.

Good, I'm just trying to understand yours (and I'm getting there) :)

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Boss mechanics...

by Durandal, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 18:43 (2763 days ago) @ someotherguy

I've heard discussions of fear in video games that revolve around forcing the player to go into an area that they feel is dangerous. When you level up enough and get the routine down, there isn't much in the raid that you would consider dangerous, so it is really tough to make them fearsome.

From a character perspective, a giant robotized fallen archon who replaced his legs with a spider body, teleports around and shoots SIVA swarms that would consume you and return your body under their control al la the fallen Iron lords is a terrifying encounter.

They could have amped things up with evidence of just what SIVA could do to you, in the forms of mutated/altered fallen abominations or something, and making the raid entrance have a more interesting mechanic or have the boss show up there in patrol like the CoO intro where "Something's coming out".

This is an area Bungie has always had trouble with, excepting probably Pathways into Darkness, but I don't think any of the guys are still around from those days.

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Boss mechanics...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 18:58 (2763 days ago) @ Durandal

This is an area Bungie has always had trouble with, excepting probably Pathways into Darkness, but I don't think any of the guys are still around from those days.

Just Jason Jones :-)

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What if SIVA took control away instead of killing you?

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Monday, October 10, 2016, 13:35 (2762 days ago) @ Durandal

that would be cool, and scary as hell the first playthrough. Instead of dying, you pop into 3rd person view, and your guardian is out of your control. You're like "WTF if happening" as your warlock Nova Bombs a teammate. in order to rez you, your teammates would need to kill you with the Relic (iron lords Ax). In hard mode, they would just kill you and you'd stay dead.

What if charging an iron lords' ax with fire was the wipe prevention mechanic? as a siva swarm comes towards your fireteam, you smash down the trail of fire and it parts the SIVA swarm like Moses parting the Red Sea?

I like the way you think.

by Claude Errera @, Monday, October 10, 2016, 13:44 (2762 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

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+1

by Grizzlei ⌂ @, Pacific Cloud Zone, Earth, Monday, October 10, 2016, 14:17 (2762 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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That would've been amazing

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, October 10, 2016, 13:47 (2762 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

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What if SIVA took control away instead of killing you?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, October 10, 2016, 14:01 (2762 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

that would be cool, and scary as hell the first playthrough. Instead of dying, you pop into 3rd person view, and your guardian is out of your control. You're like "WTF if happening" as your warlock Nova Bombs a teammate. in order to rez you, your teammates would need to kill you with the Relic (iron lords Ax). In hard mode, they would just kill you and you'd stay dead.

What if charging an iron lords' ax with fire was the wipe prevention mechanic? as a siva swarm comes towards your fireteam, you smash down the trail of fire and it parts the SIVA swarm like Moses parting the Red Sea?

I'm afraid of seeing evidence that AI Kermit is better than real Kermit. Seriously, if Destiny had bots or even non-alien AI that did more than walk around the Tower, this might have been a realistic possibility. Cool idea.

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lol

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Monday, October 10, 2016, 17:32 (2762 days ago) @ Kermit

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Kermit is still better then exploding BOBs :)

by Durandal, Tuesday, October 11, 2016, 09:41 (2761 days ago) @ Kermit

I think the AI for Taken would work well for guardians. They already have very similar abilities.

Or we could put in some low flying defense drones or these guys :)

[image]

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pre-creeper creepers. Jeepers.

by slycrel ⌂, Tuesday, October 11, 2016, 16:12 (2761 days ago) @ Durandal

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I still hear Zartman's screams in my head.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, October 11, 2016, 17:57 (2761 days ago) @ Durandal

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Duuuuude.

by Funkmon @, Monday, October 10, 2016, 16:03 (2762 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

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Aksis music [far] more [beautiful] than the actual boss.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Sunday, October 09, 2016, 23:22 (2762 days ago) @ Funkmon

Ear of the beholder? Am I commenting about the music?

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