*Sigh* - DBO Forums

[image]

locked

2574 views

Carrie Fisher passed away this morning. Truly a sad day. ):

locked

2501 views

Fuck you, 2016. Fuck you.

locked

2496 views

Fuck you, 2016. Fuck you.

Alright. What I'm about to say might seem insensitive, but I think the people of DBO might be the kind of people who can appreciate this. While it sucks that a lot of our heroes and idols have died in 2016, I really wish people would consider the underlying correlation and causation to the situation, so they might be able to gain perspective.

The amount of celebrity deaths in 2016 is directly tied to the growth of "celebrity" in our culture. There are more household names dying in 2016 because there are more household names than ever before in history. The advent of the TV and global movies and international rock stars all took place in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s (and continues). How old are all (or at least most) of the people dying? 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.

This isn't to say it's not sad when we lose people. It most certainly is. But a healthy perspective on life maintains a healthy perspective on death. Death is coming for us all. None of us will survive. And that's ok. It's one of the many things that gives the life we have great meaning.

Mathematically, 2017 will likely be worse than 2016 in regards to losing our celebrities. 2018 worse than that. So on and so on. Our only hope of losing fewer household names in a given year is to reduce how many household names there are. Perhaps our angst and outcry is really more of an indication of the importance of "celebrity" in our culture and lives than it is about our personal sentiments towards people we've (likely) never met.

Once again, let me reiterate. My condolences to those grieving the many losses of 2016. I know that many of these stars had major impacts on your lives. I'm just getting exhausted with no one mentioning the elephant in the room.

locked

2540 views

[image] *
*Also it's gorilla in the room. Or at least it was.**
**;)<3

locked

2470 views

"Elephant in the room" refers to an obvious truth, "800 lb gorilla" refers to organizations so powerful they can disregard the law.

Sources: (sorry I use wikiwand which converts wiki urls)

Elephant In the Room
800 lb Gorilla

locked

2573 views

- No text -

locked

2463 views

"Elephant in the room" refers to an obvious truth, "800 lb gorilla" refers to organizations so powerful they can disregard the law.

Sources: (sorry I use wikiwand which converts wiki urls)

Elephant In the Room
800 lb Gorilla

As Funkmon has mentioned, it has been used interchangeably. Yet I have to mention that I legitimately did not know that there were two separate meanings. Thus, TIL.

Fuck you, 2016. Fuck you.

Alright. What I'm about to say might seem insensitive, but I think the people of DBO might be the kind of people who can appreciate this. While it sucks that a lot of our heroes and idols have died in 2016, I really wish people would consider the underlying correlation and causation to the situation, so they might be able to gain perspective.

The amount of celebrity deaths in 2016 is directly tied to the growth of "celebrity" in our culture. There are more household names dying in 2016 because there are more household names than ever before in history. The advent of the TV and global movies and international rock stars all took place in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s (and continues). How old are all (or at least most) of the people dying? 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.

This isn't to say it's not sad when we lose people. It most certainly is. But a healthy perspective on life maintains a healthy perspective on death. Death is coming for us all. None of us will survive. And that's ok. It's one of the many things that gives the life we have great meaning.

Mathematically, 2017 will likely be worse than 2016 in regards to losing our celebrities. 2018 worse than that. So on and so on. Our only hope of losing fewer household names in a given year is to reduce how many household names there are. Perhaps our angst and outcry is really more of an indication of the importance of "celebrity" in our culture and lives than it is about our personal sentiments towards people we've (likely) never met.

Once again, let me reiterate. My condolences to those grieving the many losses of 2016. I know that many of these stars had major impacts on your lives. I'm just getting exhausted with no one mentioning the elephant in the room.

CyberKN: The majority of these people deserve so much better than for their deaths to be tallied for some 'epic' "how much 2016 sucked" meme.

Oh boy... I can feel an essay bubblen' out of my noggin. Ugh. WHY NOW! My brain ya'll. I don't even know. Alright, so this is going to be a lot less polished, but what they hey. So I have seen the same sort of "everyone dies, it's going to happen next year too!" type statements around the net. Thus I start my babble.

DUH. No shit. This take is missing the point entirely. That's not to say it's not disagreeable that such amazing, well versed people are being clumped together into some sort of meme, yet, this isn't an accident. There are so many little nuances that help describe the larger scope of what is occurring. I want to cover it all, but alas that would require time, and I'm making this off the cuff. No time for spelling it all out, so here is the meat done and done.

It's a collective morning and venting mechanism that the hive mind, that we (are) upon the internet (yes even RIGHT NOW), have collectively co-oped to help soothe uncertain fears about the future, and perhaps a myriad of other topics my brain isn't pointing to right now as I type this. 2016 "Is a Monster". We are blaming the "Monster". It's a tactic as old as Homo sapiens. That is the use of monsters, and 2016 has eaten some BIG names, seemingly in larger number then collectively "we the internet hivemind yada yada" are used too, thus... the response. In time... I would expect this "celebrity death" type response to fade in the overall collective sense as we have seen this year, barring the possibility of other variables I can not know. On top of that we have the global politics of blind ambition and all around pig headed ignorance and fear of right now to spite the nose of the future, and well... 2016. It's not one thing, it is a collection of things.

So... surprised?

Don't get me wrong, it is a logical and reasonable stance to observe. Everybody dies. Yes. Yet, don't Fo-CUS on DA FIN-GA OR Yor'll miss Out On ALL DAt HEV-EN-LY GLOR-EY.

locked

2577 views

It's sorta weird that you lumped my reply in there with Beardfade, since from my perspective we're making totally different points; He that we (the internet) are acting as if the elderly growing old is some unforeseen tragedy, versus mine that lumping deaths together is a coping mechanism that does a disservice to each of the victims as individuals.

If I died, I would not want to be remembered as "another one of those poor saps who got eaten by the 2016 reaper".

So I'm going to do the opposite:

I don't know much about Carrie Fisher outside of her more famous acting roles, but her performance as Princess Leia was outstanding, and undoubtedly helped inspire women and girls by defying gender stereotypes. That she passed at so relatively young an age is a tragedy, and we will miss her.

For the record, I'm not trying to make an argument or anything. I just want to help nip this "20xx killed so many people" thing in the bud, before it becomes annualized.

locked

2498 views

- No text -

locked

2440 views

I'm sorry if I riled you up that way. I thought I made it clear that 1) what I was about to say might be insensitive, but 2) that I really am sorry for and share my sympathies with those particular touched by certain death's this year.

I have not been exposed to many other people talking about the mathematics regarding the increase of celebrity deaths. If you have, then my apologies for adding another voice to it.

As for your "monster", you're absolutely right. It is the nature of humans to create coping mechanisms. They can be anything from jokes, to sex, to religion, to mythology. I think however, we create these mechanisms (or align with already existing ones) largely because we don't take death seriously enough. It's unfortunate that being realistic about the role of death unnerves so many people. I have always been a bit more interested in death than the people around me, but I have never found that fascination to be debilitating. If anything, it is enabling. It forces me to focus on what can be accomplished, or to move on from things that are going to fail so that I might pursue something better. "For all things there is a season under the sun."

In my experience, I draw largely upon the several years I was a pastor, most people blatantly ignore death in their lives until it happens. The family and loved ones die, our heroes die. No one's ever prepared for it, which is perhaps one of the most fascinating things about humans. I guess I can't help myself but to take an opportunity to try and get people to think a bit more about the inevitable end, with the hope it might help them be more focused and get more out of the life they have.

Once again, sorry to upset you.

locked

2450 views

1) what I was about to say might be insensitive

When people might be upset, and are venting their emotions in the most healthy way they can conceive, this sentence right here is an excellent clue that perhaps you should abstain from saying whatever is coming next.

locked

2470 views

- No text -

locked

2353 views

He's more interested in telling people how to feel and what to think. Though, to be fair, his intentions are good, but now that I say that it probably makes it worse.

I also take issue that we're upset over "celebrities." Many people that died this year are cultural icons. Bowie. Cohen. Ron Glass (in certain circles; I still miss him dearly).

To say "there's more celebrities so of course more will die" is just fucking ignorant.

locked

2478 views

I'm interested in helping people see a bigger picture than the pain directly in front of them.

No where did I say that the many deaths of household names in 2016 shouldn't upset you. I suggested that the correlation between the rise of household names and the increase of those people dying is a symptom of mathematics. It is not a reason to label 2016 as the worst. 2016 is not the culprit, it is an arbitrary measure of time. The limits of human aging, mortality, and culture are who to get upset at. And I suggested that if you're going to be mad at 2016, it's only going to get worse.

It's not just that all people die, it's also that as a species, we die at a relatively standard rate. Assuming you outlived infancy (which was a real problem for much of human history), human beings have been living to their 70s for most of human existence (src. Dr. Christopher Ryan, Sex at Dawn, p.200-201). Even biblically, Psalm 90 describes the average lifespan as 70-80 years old. The best known icons, celebrities, heroes, etc, are all getting into the range where death is more/most likely. In order to have fewer icons die, we'll need a demographic trough of icons "created" and then wait the 30-40 years for the lack of deaths to occur. Right now we're living through the demographic boom of the Baby Boomers and the icons created in that time. It's going to be rough.

Once again, let me reiterate. I really am sorry I upset you. I wasn't specifically targeting you (or any of you). I wasn't going on the attack, I was trying to add a conversation in parallel.

locked

2493 views

I'm interested in helping people see a bigger picture than the pain directly in front of them.

Fair enough.

No where did I say that the many deaths of household names in 2016 shouldn't upset you. I suggested that the correlation between the rise of household names and the increase of those people dying is a symptom of mathematics. It is not a reason to label 2016 as the worst. 2016 is not the culprit, it is an arbitrary measure of time. The limits of human aging, mortality, and culture are who to get upset at. And I suggested that if you're going to be mad at 2016, it's only going to get worse.

It's not just that all people die, it's also that as a species, we die at a relatively standard rate. Assuming you outlived infancy (which was a real problem for much of human history), human beings have been living to their 70s for most of human existence (src. Dr. Christopher Ryan, Sex at Dawn, p.200-201). Even biblically, Psalm 90 describes the average lifespan as 70-80 years old. The best known icons, celebrities, heroes, etc, are all getting into the range where death is more/most likely. In order to have fewer icons die, we'll need a demographic trough of icons "created" and then wait the 30-40 years for the lack of deaths to occur. Right now we're living through the demographic boom of the Baby Boomers and the icons created in that time. It's going to be rough.

Any tact involving "mathematics" isn't that great when you're trying to help people deal with pain; especially pain involving death. I hope you never did this when you were a pastor.

Once again, let me reiterate. I really am sorry I upset you. I wasn't specifically targeting you (or any of you). I wasn't going on the attack, I was trying to add a conversation in parallel.

Starting a parallel conversation? Then why did you fly in fully expecting flak? I'm pulling the trigger on the guns because I think you're missing a huge point here: don't tell people how to deal with death in the midst of their grieving. Ever. Help them deal with it in their own way as ridiculous as it may be to you or anyone else. Next time, try this:

"I'm sorry you're hurting. Can I help?"

locked

2484 views

"I'm sorry you're hurting. Can I help?"

For the record, this is what I did as a pastor. But I'm not a pastor anymore and yes, one of those reasons is the sheer quantity of empathy required for the job. I'm easily half Vulcan (yes, a joke, but still the simplest way to describe myself). People aren't really that interested in logic & reason even when they are in a good place. That, too, is part of the culture we are in.

I still maintain, I haven't told you what to feel or think, I have posited that there's a logical reason 2016 was shittier than most and have suggested that understanding why it was shittier may be of some comfort to some people. As with most comforts, they are only helpful to some. Perhaps in this case, the kind of people who would be comforted by understanding this situation would also be the people who would not need to be comforted by it. This is something I'm only considering right now, so my apologies for not calculating that beforehand.

SonofMacPhisto, who or what in particular have you been hurt by the most this year? For me, I was touched by the loss of Arnold Palmer. He transformed a game I loved, thought I might play professionally at one point in my life, and did it with charisma and style. I never met the man, but his accomplishments elevated golf, and any modern golfer is in his debt. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Maybe we can start an "airing of grievances" in the Festivus tradition.

locked

2493 views

"I'm sorry you're hurting. Can I help?"

For the record, this is what I did as a pastor. But I'm not a pastor anymore and yes, one of those reasons is the sheer quantity of empathy required for the job. I'm easily half Vulcan (yes, a joke, but still the simplest way to describe myself). People aren't really that interested in logic & reason even when they are in a good place. That, too, is part of the culture we are in.

No apologies needed, but thanks. Good analogy - I am very much Bones McCoy right now, boxing you about the ears for your green-blooded ways. ;)

As far as 2016 is concerned, my biggest grievance would too easily lead to bar rule violations (no politics or religion). All I'll say is 2016 was an impossible year for my politics.

Ron Glass hurts. A lot. I used to be Christian, and he (very brilliantly) played an example of religiosity I can still respect, if not agree with. At least there's still "Preacher" to keep me company.

locked

2477 views

Maybe we can start an "airing of grievances" in the Festivus tradition.

Arnold Palmer was a big one. For better or worse I don't follow golf that closely but I still knew of him and it was really something to go back and read more about him and the things he had done in life.

My big one for this year would probably be Jerry Doyle. Later in life he was known as a conservative talk radio host, but I will always know him as MISTER Garibaldi on Babylon 5. I don't know that he was a super great (or bad) guy off screen. It's fairly well known he had a problem with alcohol and it was ultimately a factor in his death. Certainly not the biggest named star to pass this year. Probably not one who did the most or championed the most causes. But he was the one that I most felt sad for this year.

Somehow, it seems that a lot of B5 characters have left us. Michael O'Hare, Andreas Katsulas, Richard Biggs, Jeff Conaway, and Jerry Doyle. Not all this year, of course, but B5 is one of my favorite shows of all time and the thing that got me into sci-fi and storytelling so it's always a bit more saddening to me personally when we lose one of the main cast.

locked

2488 views

- No text -

locked

2424 views

- No text -

locked

2366 views

I'm sorry if I riled you up that way. I thought I made it clear that 1) what I was about to say might be insensitive, but 2) that I really am sorry for and share my sympathies with those particular touched by certain death's this year.

I have not been exposed to many other people talking about the mathematics regarding the increase of celebrity deaths. If you have, then my apologies for adding another voice to it.

As for your "monster", you're absolutely right. It is the nature of humans to create coping mechanisms. They can be anything from jokes, to sex, to religion, to mythology. I think however, we create these mechanisms (or align with already existing ones) largely because we don't take death seriously enough. It's unfortunate that being realistic about the role of death unnerves so many people. I have always been a bit more interested in death than the people around me, but I have never found that fascination to be debilitating. If anything, it is enabling. It forces me to focus on what can be accomplished, or to move on from things that are going to fail so that I might pursue something better. "For all things there is a season under the sun."

In my experience, I draw largely upon the several years I was a pastor, most people blatantly ignore death in their lives until it happens. The family and loved ones die, our heroes die. No one's ever prepared for it, which is perhaps one of the most fascinating things about humans. I guess I can't help myself but to take an opportunity to try and get people to think a bit more about the inevitable end, with the hope it might help them be more focused and get more out of the life they have.

Once again, sorry to upset you.

Up.set? What? Nothing of the sort. You're fine BeardFade. I too am quite content with death, yet that is another topic entirely. To the source topic at hand, It is important to keep in mind that it isn't about one person, but a vast and varied collection of people of vast and varied motivation. Yet what choice do we have, in our speculation? In the end we can only really know one I suppose.

locked

2440 views

- No text -

locked

2455 views

- No text -

locked

2415 views

- No text -

locked

2448 views

Yep, but we don't know that her substance abuse had anything to do with her death. Otherwise healthy people half her age die from heart attacks.

locked

2487 views

Yep, but we don't know that her substance abuse had anything to do with her death. Otherwise healthy people half her age die from heart attacks.

Okay, I'm seeing the rumors now. If true that's even sadder.

locked

2452 views

Don't mean to make light, but...

[image]

locked

2480 views

There is a difference between "not wanting to die" and "realistically understanding that you will die."

I think it's possible for both ideas to coexist within a person. I certainly don't want to die today and so I act accordingly, nor do I want to die soon (I am 31, I can possibly expect 40+ years), so I also act accordingly by saving for retirement, working out and eating healthier than I used to (not by much). But I also am well aware that I will die, and thus I should try and enjoy life while I can. Hence, I might have more dessert than I should, or splurge on a meal or outing. Thus, I reiterate, it makes sense to keep both ideas in mind.

locked

2464 views

- No text -

locked

2392 views

Nice words, but I couldn't honestly give a shit, mate. Death comes for us all, and 2016 (in more ways than one) has been a constant reminder of that, and it sucks.

locked

2430 views

- No text -

locked

2436 views

Mathematically, 2017 will likely be worse than 2016 in regards to losing our celebrities. 2018 worse than that. So on and so on. Our only hope of losing fewer household names in a given year is to reduce how many household names there are. Perhaps our angst and outcry is really more of an indication of the importance of "celebrity" in our culture and lives than it is about our personal sentiments towards people we've (likely) never met.

Maybe.

But there does seem to be something special about 2016.

If you look at 'celebrity deaths' compilations over the past few years, the numbers have been relatively steady for this decade so far (2010-2015), with a 75-100% increase for 2016. That's significant, no matter WHAT set of criteria you decide to use for judging.

locked

2489 views

Yeah, it seems weird. On the other hand, when you add up the rise of celebrity culture, actuary tables, and perhaps the end of some lives of excess (regrettably), maybe not.

Addendum: I think at some point the widespread grieving will drop off because I think our culture is more fractured and new household names aren't being added like maybe they have been for most of my life.

locked

2431 views

Watch The Leftovers.

locked

2430 views

This guy seems to think 2016 was heavy on the celebrity deaths. Of course, you can make statistics say anything you want and it's possible there are assumptions here that are not true.

https://medium.com/@jasoncrease/was-2016-especially-dangerous-for-celebrities-79d79b9fae02#.m3tjxjkrq

locked

2421 views

Fuck you, 2016. Fuck you.

So many times this.

In addition to the celebrity deaths you know about, 2016 also took:

My wife's cousin.
My wife's student.
An ex of mine who was still a friend.
My great-aunt's last surviving child (my great aunt is 97; she outlived all three kids).

and 2016 gave both my father-in-law and my dog cancer.

I hope 2017 is a fresh start and not an encore.

locked

2444 views

Fuck you, 2016. Fuck you.

So many times this.

In addition to the celebrity deaths you know about, 2016 also took:

My wife's cousin.
My wife's student.
An ex of mine who was still a friend.
My great-aunt's last surviving child (my great aunt is 97; she outlived all three kids).

and 2016 gave both my father-in-law and my dog cancer.

I hope 2017 is a fresh start and not an encore.

Hell yes!

locked

2388 views

Fuck you, 2016. Fuck you.

So many times this.

In addition to the celebrity deaths you know about, 2016 also took:

My wife's cousin.
My wife's student.
An ex of mine who was still a friend.
My great-aunt's last surviving child (my great aunt is 97; she outlived all three kids).

and 2016 gave both my father-in-law and my dog cancer.

<3

Thanks :)

I hope 2017 is a fresh start and not an encore.

Hell yes!

Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed. I apologise if you see me driving like this.

locked

2408 views

locked

2479 views

The majority of these people deserve so much better than for their deaths to be tallied for some 'epic' "how much 2016 sucked" meme.

locked

2418 views

The majority of these people deserve so much better than for their deaths to be tallied for some 'epic' "how much 2016 sucked" meme.

Mostly I'm just trying to use macabre humor (and a reference to Jon Oliver's excellent summary of 2016) to cope. There's more for me to be mad about in 2016 than just the deaths, but I want to respect DBO's "bar rules."

locked

2430 views

Agreed. Not because of all the people who died, but because I didn't.

locked

2292 views

You're kidding! I thought she was recovering!!

locked

2455 views

You're kidding! I thought she was recovering!!

Yeah, she was from everything I saw, but things turned, unfortunately. ):

locked

2460 views

"Did Carrie Fisher die?"

"No, she had a heart attack on the plane though."

"This says she died."

"WAT"

locked

2436 views

Her mother has now followed. -_-

locked

2411 views

locked

2417 views

Back to the forum index

RSS Feed of thread

DBO Forums

*Sigh* (Off-Topic)

2016 wasn't quite finished.

2016: Year of the Reaper

An Alternative Perspective (that I may get some flack for).

What is this? Logic? Reason? On the INTERNET!

What is this? Logic? Reason? On the INTERNET!

Now mixed in common usage.

TIL. Also...my take (or whatever.)

TIL. Also...my take (or whatever.)

It's fine. To me it seems one and the same.

TIL. Also...my take (or whatever.)

TIL. Also...my take (or whatever.)

Heh. Why do you think he posted?

Heh. Why do you think he posted?

Heh. Why do you think he posted?

Heh. Why do you think he posted?

My apologies to you, SonofMacPhisto

My apologies to you, SonofMacPhisto

Airing of Grievances

INB4 Feats of Strength

Arnold Palmer died?!

Its cool. You're fine.

I like your posts.

Thanks

An Alternative Perspective: Drugs are bad Mmkay

An Alternative Perspective: Drugs are bad Mmkay

An Alternative Perspective: Drugs are bad Mmkay

An Alternative Perspective (that I may get some flack for).

An Alternative Perspective (that I may get some flack for).

Wise Words, My Friend.

An Alternative Perspective (that I may get some flack for).

Interesting point.

An Alternative Perspective (that I may get some flack for).

An Alternative Perspective (that I may get some flack for).

PS: if you want to see widespread grieving...

One Person's Math

2016: Year of the Reaper

2016: Year of the Reaper

2016: Year of the Reaper

2016: Year of the Reaper

Nah.

Nah.

2016: Year of the Reaper

2016 wasn't quite finished.

2016 wasn't quite finished.

My sister asked me this morning and I told her no.

*Sigh* ^2

*Sigh* ^2

Sigh (Off-Topic)

Sigh ^2

Sigh ^2