Should exotic limits be removed in Des2ny? (Destiny)
by Cody Miller 
, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, February 19, 2017, 17:55 (2615 days ago)
You can only equip one exotic at a time. Could things improve if this limit were removed?
Exotics need to be "good" to justify the opportunity cost of equipping them. You very rarely see exotic secondaries in crucible precisely because legendary secondaries are better, but so are primary and heavy exotics.
But then good exotics that people use get nerfed, and now they aren't so exotic anymore.
So why not eliminate the one at a time restriction? That way, you don't have to worry so much about them being "good" because there is less opportunity cost.
It would also be interesting if stats wise, green guns were the best overall but lack perks, legendaries have weaker overall stats but more perks, and exotics the weakest overall stats but the most unique perks.
You have a trade off between raw power and useful perks and abilities now.
Yet Another Bad Idea Post...
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, February 19, 2017, 20:42 (2615 days ago) @ Cody Miller
You can only equip one exotic at a time. Could things improve if this limit were removed?
Every time someone asks this question, they are quickly shut down because of what a stupid idea it is.
Exotics need to be "good" to justify the opportunity cost of equipping them. You very rarely see exotic secondaries in crucible precisely because legendary secondaries are better, but so are primary and heavy exotics.
Exotics needs to be "unique", not "good". You very rarely see exotics in Secondary slots because everyone is either using them as primaries (9 times out of 10, it's MIDA, with a quick switch to Truth around Heavies), or because the shotgun/sniper metas are so prevalent, and range+damage supersede a unique perk in Crucible. This is not the case in PvE, where Telesto, Black Spindle, Dragon's Breath, and Gjallarhorn still reign.
But then good exotics that people use get nerfed, and now they aren't so exotic anymore.
You seem to equate "exotic" with "really powerful in the Crucible", which is dumb. Don't do that.
So why not eliminate the one at a time restriction? That way, you don't have to worry so much about them being "good" because there is less opportunity cost.
As is pointed out every time, the game would just become "MIDA, Ice Breaker/Invective, Truth" weapon combo and all-exotic armor sets. You see how much people whine about the Artifacts, which should be exotic, but aren't, and people claim that they make things unfair... One can only imagine what a sandbox of pure exotics would look like.
It would also be interesting if stats wise, green guns were the best overall but lack perks, legendaries have weaker overall stats but more perks, and exotics the weakest overall stats but the most unique perks.
While it's flattering to see you parroting what I've said since the Alpha, it's sadly not going to happen.
Yet Another Bad Idea Post...
I think they could stand to take exotics in the other direction. Some of them (MIDA, for example) are like the platonic ideal of their weapon class, rather than being particularly unique or special (I mean, MIDA is unique in that it's super good and has no real drawbacks, but not in the sense that thorn adds a DoT effect or Truth has crazy cool tracking or NLB is a primary... etc).
I feel like few of the exotic guns affect gameplay in the same way that exotic armors do, and I wish they did. Similarly to how some of Diablo 2's unique weapons allowed you to play otherwise unviable specs.
Following from that philosophy, no, you would certainly not want to let anyone equip more than one at a time. Making choices is part of what makes choosing your gear interesting.
Yet Another Bad Idea Post...
by Ragashingo 
, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, February 19, 2017, 21:42 (2615 days ago) @ Kahzgul
Making choices is part of what makes choosing your gear interesting.
This.
Yet Another Bad Idea Post...
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, February 19, 2017, 22:31 (2615 days ago) @ Ragashingo
Making choices is part of what makes choosing your gear interesting.
This.
And it it would be more interesting if the trade offs were more granular and organic.
Yet Another Bad Idea Post...
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, February 19, 2017, 21:13 (2615 days ago) @ Korny
edited by Cody Miller, Sunday, February 19, 2017, 21:17
You didn't read my post. It wouldn't be MIDA Icbreaker Truth. Look at the bottom of the post. Exotics could then be designed to be weaker in stats, but have interesting perks. The guns you listed all have very good stats discounting their perks. If you designed for my suggestion, loading up on exotics would cause you to sacrifice killing power, but you could mix and match better to combine unique perks. Exotic armor could have low stat rolls.
The whole point is to make exotics unique, not "good".
Yet Another Bad Idea Post...
by narcogen , Andover, Massachusetts, Monday, February 20, 2017, 01:40 (2615 days ago) @ Korny
It would also be interesting if stats wise, green guns were the best overall but lack perks, legendaries have weaker overall stats but more perks, and exotics the weakest overall stats but the most unique perks.
While it's flattering to see you parroting what I've said since the Alpha, it's sadly not going to happen.
Wouldn't it be better if exotics had best stats AND perks, making them clearly better and thus justifying the one exotic at a time restriction?
Yet Another Bad Idea Post...
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, February 20, 2017, 03:24 (2614 days ago) @ narcogen
It would also be interesting if stats wise, green guns were the best overall but lack perks, legendaries have weaker overall stats but more perks, and exotics the weakest overall stats but the most unique perks.
While it's flattering to see you parroting what I've said since the Alpha, it's sadly not going to happen.
Wouldn't it be better if exotics had best stats AND perks, making them clearly better and thus justifying the one exotic at a time restriction?
No. That's what happened year 1, and that resulted in exotics being nerfed into the ground. Surros, Hawkmoon, Pocket Infinity, Thorn, etc.
Sounds like the solution is for Bungle to stop nerfing.
by Funkmon , Monday, February 20, 2017, 07:25 (2614 days ago) @ Cody Miller
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+1
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Sounds like the solution is for Bungle to stop nerfing.
by stabbim , Des Moines, IA, USA, Monday, February 20, 2017, 17:39 (2614 days ago) @ Funkmon
That's pretty much what I read from Cody's initial post. I think he's going on the assumption that they're not GOING to stop nerfing things. For better or worse, that's probably true.
Should exotic limits be removed in Des2ny?
by cheapLEY , Sunday, February 19, 2017, 21:10 (2615 days ago) @ Cody Miller
The should just ditch the whole stupid system and just make all guns "exotic" in that all guns have set perks. That randomization is part of why I hate Destiny's PvP--does he just have a better roll than me, or is he legitimately better than me (hint: it's both, probably).
And better yet, make PvP and PvE weapons separate so you don't have to fuck one side or the other with every "balance" patch. It's stupid to have to walk that line.
Should exotic limits be removed in Des2ny?
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, February 19, 2017, 21:59 (2615 days ago) @ cheapLEY
And better yet, make PvP and PvE weapons separate so you don't have to fuck one side or the other with every "balance" patch. It's stupid to have to walk that line.
No. It's just a stupidly persistent myth. Various weapons and weapon classes have been buffed or nerfed specifically and separately for PvE or PvP several times now. Most recent one I could find was in 2.4.0 - The one preparing for Rise of Iro where Sidearms got a 20-30% PvE only damage boost. For 2.3.0 Hand Cannons got a small PvE damage boost. In 2.2.0 Thorn had its PvP damage over time damage reduced. And the list continues. I remember Shotgun damage was once boosted by 100% in PvE then later had that reduced, again just for PvE.
Yes, sometimes there are blanket boosts to say Pulse Rifles which early on got a ~10% boost across PvP and PvE. But Bungie seems to be able to adjust stats between the two modes separately and even with per-gun granularity.
Should exotic limits be removed in Des2ny?
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, February 20, 2017, 16:16 (2614 days ago) @ cheapLEY
The should just ditch the whole stupid system and just make all guns "exotic" in that all guns have set perks. That randomization is part of why I hate Destiny's PvP--does he just have a better roll than me, or is he legitimately better than me (hint: it's both, probably).
And better yet, make PvP and PvE weapons separate so you don't have to fuck one side or the other with every "balance" patch. It's stupid to have to walk that line.
If every gun had fixed stats, it would be unnecessary I think to separate PvE and PvP. Each gun could be precisely tuned to mesh with everything else knowing exactly what else is out there. And if it is a problem, then it can simply be tuned individually.
Random perks are a problem because people will seek out God Rolls. So either God Rolls tower over everything else and your normal rolls can't compete, or else you need to get a God Roll to have a decent gun. Either way, it's a bad situation.
Random perks do not belong on guns in Destiny.
A compromise...
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, February 20, 2017, 17:17 (2614 days ago) @ Cody Miller
The should just ditch the whole stupid system and just make all guns "exotic" in that all guns have set perks. That randomization is part of why I hate Destiny's PvP--does he just have a better roll than me, or is he legitimately better than me (hint: it's both, probably).
And better yet, make PvP and PvE weapons separate so you don't have to fuck one side or the other with every "balance" patch. It's stupid to have to walk that line.
If every gun had fixed stats, it would be unnecessary I think to separate PvE and PvP. Each gun could be precisely tuned to mesh with everything else knowing exactly what else is out there. And if it is a problem, then it can simply be tuned individually.Random perks are a problem because people will seek out God Rolls. So either God Rolls tower over everything else and your normal rolls can't compete, or else you need to get a God Roll to have a decent gun. Either way, it's a bad situation.
Random perks do not belong on guns in Destiny.
An ideal solution would be "no random perk that affects weapon stats".
Why choose Cascade when you have Rangefinder? Why would you pick "up close & personal" when you could have Rifled Barrel?
I think gun perks should be perks, not things that affect stats, recoil, or damage. That way, you have variety within the same weapons, while always having balance and identical behaviors in something like PvP.
I also like the way Trials weapons work in Year 3, with all of them having the same perk options, but each tier has multiple perks, allowing you to tweak the weapon to better fit your own playstyle.
A compromise...
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, February 20, 2017, 19:46 (2614 days ago) @ Korny
The should just ditch the whole stupid system and just make all guns "exotic" in that all guns have set perks. That randomization is part of why I hate Destiny's PvP--does he just have a better roll than me, or is he legitimately better than me (hint: it's both, probably).
And better yet, make PvP and PvE weapons separate so you don't have to fuck one side or the other with every "balance" patch. It's stupid to have to walk that line.
If every gun had fixed stats, it would be unnecessary I think to separate PvE and PvP. Each gun could be precisely tuned to mesh with everything else knowing exactly what else is out there. And if it is a problem, then it can simply be tuned individually.Random perks are a problem because people will seek out God Rolls. So either God Rolls tower over everything else and your normal rolls can't compete, or else you need to get a God Roll to have a decent gun. Either way, it's a bad situation.
Random perks do not belong on guns in Destiny.
An ideal solution would be "no random perk that affects weapon stats".Why choose Cascade when you have Rangefinder? Why would you pick "up close & personal" when you could have Rifled Barrel?
I think gun perks should be perks, not things that affect stats, recoil, or damage. That way, you have variety within the same weapons, while always having balance and identical behaviors in something like PvP.
I also like the way Trials weapons work in Year 3, with all of them having the same perk options, but each tier has multiple perks, allowing you to tweak the weapon to better fit your own playstyle.
Yeah that is a good idea. No perk should straight up improve, or even alter weapon stats. That's the problem: too many perks let you bypass trade offs in weapon design. It is also very boring. Every perk should change the way you use the gun rather than straight up make the gun better.
^ This.
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 14:32 (2613 days ago) @ cheapLEY
The should just ditch the whole stupid system and just make all guns "exotic" in that all guns have set perks. That randomization is part of why I hate Destiny's PvP--does he just have a better roll than me, or is he legitimately better than me (hint: it's both, probably).
This is a beef I've always had with Destiny. Weapon names have no meaning because their performance can be so varied. If Bungie is so sold on the mechanic of making people chase perfect rolls on a weapon then they should at least append a "variant" to the end of the name that would describe what perks were on the gun. Also, if there must be different rolls on a gun then there should only be a small # of possible rolls (8-16, maybe as many as 32, but that's pushing it, >100 is right out).
And better yet, make PvP and PvE weapons separate so you don't have to fuck one side or the other with every "balance" patch. It's stupid to have to walk that line.
I'm not sure about this solution, but I might be convinced. However, I definitely agree with the problem.
Should exotic limits be removed in Des2ny?
by red robber , Crawfish Country, Monday, February 20, 2017, 15:28 (2614 days ago) @ Cody Miller
How about being able to equip any two exotics? You could have two weapons and no armors or vice versa. This would allow you to either have better gunplay or better defensive perks or abilities.
That could be interesting!
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, February 20, 2017, 18:10 (2614 days ago) @ red robber
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