Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream (Destiny)

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 11:01 (2355 days ago)

creating a thread to discuss

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It's cool.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 11:45 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

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Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream - public event

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 11:52 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

they showed off a new public event during the stream, here are a few things I remembered:

  • very big, as in covering a lot of araa, there are multiple zones you have to get to
  • lifts are activated that take you to locations and that shift around as goals are met
  • you fight in areas you can only get to during public event. geometry of the landscape shifts.
  • described as a big machine you have to get through
  • two reward chests when done
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There are Heroic Events for this as well

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:22 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

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yep. they specifically hid how you make the event heroic

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:33 (2355 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

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Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream - lost prophecies

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:11 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

here is what I remember from what they demonstrated about the lost prophecies

  • lost prophecies appear to be part of the end game collection of CoO
  • not sure how you get them the one demonstrated was a gift from bother vance
  • a lost prophecy is one of up to 11 quests and will show up in your inventory. each quest will have steps you need to complete. the one demonstrated required collection of items for both steps.
  • you complete activities of various sorts to collect the quest items which show up in your inventory as consumables. you do not seem to have to have the quest yet to collect the items. you use the quest items to complete the quest step, the steps are not auto completed just because you have the item
  • once you have finished the prophecy you turn it into bother vance and he 'charges' it and you take it to the 'forge' where it converts it into a weapon. the one demonstrated gave a hand cannon.
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Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream - lost prophecies

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:37 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

here is what I remember from what they demonstrated about the lost prophecies

  • lost prophecies appear to be part of the end game collection of CoO
  • not sure how you get them the one demonstrated was a gift from bother vance
  • a lost prophecy is one of up to 11 quests and will show up in your inventory. each quest will have steps you need to complete. the one demonstrated required collection of items for both steps.
  • you complete activities of various sorts to collect the quest items which show up in your inventory as consumables. you do not seem to have to have the quest yet to collect the items. you use the quest items to complete the quest step, the steps are not auto completed just because you have the item
  • once you have finished the prophecy you turn it into bother vance and he 'charges' it and you take it to the 'forge' where it converts it into a weapon. the one demonstrated gave a hand cannon.
  • Once you collect a weapon it is visually shown in the public space like the fires were at the Iron Temple.
  • All weapons are a Vex + Human hybrid

Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream - infinite forest

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:18 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

as part of the stream the demonstrated an adventure through the infinite forest.

  • you get something different every time
  • described as a series of lego bricks pieced to gethere
  • any of the enemy races can fill these spaces - lore wise everything is a simulation of the vex to see how they react in a given situation. some of the combinations have never occurred in destiny before.

Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream - infinite forest

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:32 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

they talked about adding modifiers to adventures and you can now have heroic versions of adventures which they said are quite challenging

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Lego bricks = Procedural Generation

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 17:57 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

I'm so happy about this.

Lego bricks = Procedural Generation

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 21:36 (2355 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I'm so happy about this.

they specifically said it is not procedural generation. my feeling is it's more like a big bucket of legos with unique pieces. They've got a lot of those pieces but not an infinite number of them. Combine that with being able to populate with any combination of the four enemy types. I do imagine it will take a while before it feels routine.

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Lego bricks = Procedural Generation

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 01:51 (2354 days ago) @ CougRon

I'm so happy about this.


they specifically said it is not procedural generation. my feeling is it's more like a big bucket of legos with unique pieces. They've got a lot of those pieces but not an infinite number of them. Combine that with being able to populate with any combination of the four enemy types. I do imagine it will take a while before it feels routine.

I mean, if the computer takes 2 bricks and arranges them using a mathematical procedure, that meets the definition of procedural generation.

My guess would be that they have like 20 rooms made, and the rooms are just strung together *via procedure* to make a relatively unique map.

For it to not be procedurally generated, there would have to be a human being hand-curating a whole bunch of different layouts. Totally possible but also totally weird, because permutations are a thing that computers are *really* good at.

Lego bricks = Procedural Generation

by electricpirate @, Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 09:20 (2354 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I'm so happy about this.


they specifically said it is not procedural generation. my feeling is it's more like a big bucket of legos with unique pieces. They've got a lot of those pieces but not an infinite number of them. Combine that with being able to populate with any combination of the four enemy types. I do imagine it will take a while before it feels routine.


I mean, if the computer takes 2 bricks and arranges them using a mathematical procedure, that meets the definition of procedural generation.

My guess would be that they have like 20 rooms made, and the rooms are just strung together *via procedure* to make a relatively unique map.

For it to not be procedurally generated, there would have to be a human being hand-curating a whole bunch of different layouts. Totally possible but also totally weird, because permutations are a thing that computers are *really* good at.

Many beloved games that use procedural generation are using a setup like this. The most famous and effective are probably spelunky and the original X-Com from 1993. Here's a great deep dive on how spelunky's gen works. http://tinysubversions.com/spelunkyGen/

When most people see procedural, they think it's something more like the minecraft/No man's sky approach where it users layered noise functions to create entirely unique Playspaces. most people think of this method when you say the word procedural generation though, so I can see why they avoided using it.

I think generally for skill based and challenge based games, I prefer the first approach. It lets you build designed challenges that can spike in fresh new elements to create experiences that feel unique. The second approach works well in survival and exploration based games where the designer might take a lighter touch.

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Lego bricks = Procedural Generation

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 14:40 (2354 days ago) @ electricpirate

I'm so happy about this.


they specifically said it is not procedural generation. my feeling is it's more like a big bucket of legos with unique pieces. They've got a lot of those pieces but not an infinite number of them. Combine that with being able to populate with any combination of the four enemy types. I do imagine it will take a while before it feels routine.


I mean, if the computer takes 2 bricks and arranges them using a mathematical procedure, that meets the definition of procedural generation.

My guess would be that they have like 20 rooms made, and the rooms are just strung together *via procedure* to make a relatively unique map.

For it to not be procedurally generated, there would have to be a human being hand-curating a whole bunch of different layouts. Totally possible but also totally weird, because permutations are a thing that computers are *really* good at.


Many beloved games that use procedural generation are using a setup like this. The most famous and effective are probably spelunky and the original X-Com from 1993. Here's a great deep dive on how spelunky's gen works. http://tinysubversions.com/spelunkyGen/

When most people see procedural, they think it's something more like the minecraft/No man's sky approach where it users layered noise functions to create entirely unique Playspaces. most people think of this method when you say the word procedural generation though, so I can see why they avoided using it.

I think generally for skill based and challenge based games, I prefer the first approach. It lets you build designed challenges that can spike in fresh new elements to create experiences that feel unique. The second approach works well in survival and exploration based games where the designer might take a lighter touch.

Exactly. And it's not the weird bogeyman that so many people seem to think it is. It's SMART. All roguelikes are procedural. Basically any "endless" mode is procedural. It's a wonderful tool for developers to add to their arsenal.

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“Procedurally Generated” comes with a lot of baggage

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 02:01 (2354 days ago) @ CougRon

And I am pretty sure that Bungie definitely wants to avoid a lot of the associations while also ensuring that people understand what to expect from the content itself. If they were to refer to the content as procedurally generated certain assumptions will come up in the player base/holiday consumers which likely would not allign with the final structure of the gameworld.

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“Procedurally Generated” comes with a lot of baggage

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 14:54 (2354 days ago) @ Harmanimus

And I am pretty sure that Bungie definitely wants to avoid a lot of the associations while also ensuring that people understand what to expect from the content itself. If they were to refer to the content as procedurally generated certain assumptions will come up in the player base/holiday consumers which likely would not allign with the final structure of the gameworld.

The baggage is silly and misplaced based on the mistaken belief that for a game to contain "procedurally generated" content, the designers literally have no hand in designing that content at all. Not only did designers make the procedures in the first place, but often (and seemingly in this case), they hand build the building blocks and the procedure simply puts them together.

For example, if you're building a bunch of rooms that can be connected in a straight line, the number of possible permutations is the number of rooms, factorial. So if you have 6 rooms, then you have 6! (or 6x5x4x3x2x1=720) possible combinations of those six rooms. Sure, a designer could do that by hand, but *why*? Computers are great at permutations. And what if you make a 7th room in a later patch? Now you have 7!=5,040 permutations. That's an insane amount of work to do by hand when the computer can be told to just figure it out on the fly (procedural generation) and presto: You've got it.

Of note: prison of elders is already an example of procedural generation within destiny, albeit with a very limited number of rooms.

Anyway, I firmly believe that procedural generation can be wonderful, and that people who are scared off by the term are being silly.

Did you know that Public Events are procedurally generated?

During D1, the list of Xur's wares was procedurally generated (which is why it was predictable). Unknown if D2 is the same.

And countless other things within the game use procedures to generate their outcomes. It is not, nor should it be, a dirty word.

Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream - strikes

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:49 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

don't remember much. don't think they talked about it too much

  • are part of the story
  • scale to the number of participants
  • talked about multiple strikes, but not sure if they said how many (2 maybe?)
  • once completed you will get them in the strike playlist. does that mean two different playlist or will the one playlist reject putting together players if one of them haven't done the strike yet?
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Bungie - Curse of Osiris - 2nd Livestream - strikes

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 12:55 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon

don't remember much. don't think they talked about it too much

  • are part of the story
  • scale to the number of participants
  • talked about multiple strikes, but not sure if they said how many (2 maybe?)
  • once completed you will get them in the strike playlist. does that mean two different playlist or will the one playlist reject putting together players if one of them haven't done the strike yet?

There will be 2 new strikes that will be integrated into the story as a solo strike.

Once you finish the story they will be added to the strike playlist as an "upgraded version" that will be for a fireteam.

Upgraded Adventures and synergies of content

by electricpirate @, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 13:16 (2355 days ago) @ CougRon
edited by electricpirate, Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 13:38

Upgraded super hard adventures is pretty exciting.

1. More hard game content, with more dynamic modifiers
2. Many players havent experienced them yet.
3. Good content for single players
4. Mercury adventures will layer modifiers, onto psuedo random arenas, with pseudo random encounters.
5. There's a ton of adventures! Lots of variety week to week.


I think that combination of lots of content + mods + random content + challenge is a good place to be.

Now, Id like to see 2 more things, that might be massively unpopular.

1. Fail states on the adventures. NF esque timers, Limited respawns, Wipe to orbits.
2. One shot, once an adventure is failed it's off the map.

Basically I want destiny to become a series of RogueLikes :p

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