I disagree. You have the option not to subscribe to that aspect.

False. The game demands you engage with it. I need to progress from 350 to around 370 if I want to do the raid. Explain to me how to do that without engaging in the investment system in which the only way to advance is to do boring things (besides maybe run the old raids)?

LOL, so here we have another example of someone posing a conflicting viewpoint and you arguing your opinion as fact. Cody, I disagree with you because that's exactly how I play. I have the option because I choose not to care. You're being a slave to the system the game has laid out and then whining that you're not having fun when you're the one that railed against this all along. The game does not at all demand I engage with it. I do so on my own terms.

Ascribing a "boring/not-boring" qualifier for things is entirely subjective. You engage how you choose to engage, nobody is forcing you to do anything. If you're actually frustrated because you can't engage the way you want, then say that. But stop acting like the way you want to do things is the only way; and if Bungie decides to develop in a different direction, they're somehow doing it wrong. There's plenty of ways in which I think they can improve the Destiny experience, and their success in their target market is fully on them.

It's not done right here in my opinion. Nor is it done right in many other modern games.

You might be shocked to learn that I agree with you here; because you've hardly been listening to anything I've said.

I think the real issue is that players overfocus on the investment system rather than just playing to have fun.

Because they tie the things that are fun to engaging with the investment system. I do not get this. Everybody on reddit loved Destiny's position in the rise of iron era, and there was no grind to the raids. That's an era everyone wants to go back to. So…

Again very subjective. And I disagree. The only thing I miss from RoI are the Iron Lord medallions we could earn that would change gameplay. It was a layer of nuance added for players who'd already experienced all prior aspects of the game. They were a great touch.

This is why the progression system should open up over a longer period of time, over a wider variety of activities, and then have end game content that requires absolute mastery of the skills you've learned. You gain experience and can keep customizing your avatar in Deus Ex all the way up to the final area, which is a mega death murder trap in which you must exploit all the skills you've chosen in order to survive.

I don't disagree here. Escalation Protocol fits some of that for me. I still have yet to reach the end, or drop into an area where a larger group has coordinated enough to succeed, but I'm sure I will eventually. But some Non-Raid endgame activity that demands a lot from players in a similar fashion is something Destiny would certainly benefit from.

And I can see the argument for that, but that isn't what is. And, as I've responded to you elsewhere; this would require more rounds of testing and tuning, which would add time to their release schedule at minimum.

Fine. I would be more than happy with large releases every year as opposed to small ones 3 times a year.

As would I. But in either case, Destiny still needs a more frequent and consistent drip of free content that builds out lore and adds life and strings of connective tissue to the world. Give me three or four kids running through the tower kicking a soccer ball, FFS. Or hassling vendors, etc.

My current boots don’t have a +5 equipped either, I don’t think. I got those earlier in the night from a powerful engram from the Mars Flashpoint.

And no, I didn’t shard them. I did turn the game off basically immediately though.

I hear you. I don't share your perspective but I hear you. FWIW, I'm still blind on this (so far), so you can count me in whenever you decide to make the attempt. Hopefully I'll still be blind at that point, but I can't promise.

~M

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It's a giant step backwards in my opinion, and they are losing me.

Between you coming back after quitting Destiny forever, and buying D2 even though it had Microtransactions in it (and which were pervasive and detrimental to the experience)... I'm pretty sure you're not going anywhere, man. Why do you always bring it up like a manipulative girlfriend?

I don't want to have to grind anymore. That's the point. You could do the raids in Dark Below (maybe), Taken King, Rise of Iron, Destiny 2, and Curse of Osiris with no grind whatsoever. Now you can't. It's a giant step backwards in my opinion, and they are losing me.

What happened to the days when YOU, Cody Miller, found your own fun (I'm assuming it was fun for you, I guess) doing things like speed runs and finding secrets? Are you just a grumpy old entitled gamer now, that demands an experience tailored to your desires?

There are more than a few people I played D1 closely with that have drifted away from Bungie entirely since, because they leaned way too hard into the grind and felt jilted afterwards. Maybe you're one of them. I dunno. But I DO know that I'm still having fun; the buffet is still piled high with goodness; and there are still good people to enjoy it all with.

I wish people would stop focusing on the grind itself and just play. Why not try a little detachment and see if that allows you to enjoy yourself?

Because I truly believe you and I are similarly dedicated fans, but you don't seem like you're having fun most of the time.

~M

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It is the fault of Bungie’s. They are the ones who determine the light level of the raid, and when to make the raid available. They know full well that was unlikely if not downright impossible for anyone to be at the appropriate level for the raid when it was first available.

Some people think I'm nuts, but to me being underleveled is half the fun of a blind raid. Being underleveled forces you to really learn the ins and outs of the encounter, and actually optimize your actions. I hate how easy the story missions and strikes have been, it was awesome to do heroic stikes this week and actually struggle a bit.

It's also been great to have so many people online these past 2 weeks.

What you are describing is difficulty. I myself prefer challenge. There's a place for both, but difficulty has long since been selectable in video games for a really good reason. And yes, there is a bit of crossover. Sometimes upping the difficulty will up the challenge as well, but not usually.

He is actually describing both. Something is a challenge because it is difficult. Difficulty can come from multiple things as well as the combination of things. For the raid, the combination of difficult bad guys with the difficulty of the raid mechanics makes it really difficult and thus a hard challenge.