Bungie: please ditch Orbit

There's so much that's great about Destiny (I'll talk about that elsewhere) but right now one thing sticks out like a sore thumb: the requirement that whenever you want to change gameplay sessions you have to go through the intermediary step of returning to Orbit. It's a pointless abstraction that serves no gameplay purpose, and only stretches out the time between deciding you want to partake in a given activity, and actually being able to do so.

Here's a few examples:

I'm doing some exploration, participating in random events and missions as I encounter them, and collecting loot. Eventually I decide I want to find out what I've won, so I need to visit the Cryptarch to have my items ‘decrypted’. In order to that I need to go to the Tower, but first I need to return to orbit, then choose a destination, then confirm I want to go there, then I have to wait whilst a pretty (but pointless, and very quickly tiresome) mini-cutscene of my ship flying off plays out.
I've completed a story mission, and so once the 30 second timer counts down, I'm presented with a carnage report plus items I've won, if any. To go collect these, I have to first of all return to orbit, then choose to return to the tower etc. etc…
I'm in the Tower; I've accepted some bounties that are PvP-oriented, and so I want to head into the Crucible; to do this I have to first head into orbit, then select a Crucible location and then wait for a mini-cinematic etc. etc.

…you get the picture.

The pointlessness of Orbit neatly dovetails with another quibble I have with The Tower: it feels lifeless. We're sat right on the edge of a massive city, but other than a handful of Guardians at a time, there's not much going on in the Tower. It actually feels quite small and claustrophobic after a while, and the relative lack of NPCs undermines the sense of immersion. I've noticed there are quite a few places where other NPCs might hang out, so possibly the intention is to add more in the full game that aren't relevant during the beta, I'm not sure.

But regardless: it would make so much more sense if The Tower was the hub for all gameplay activities rather than Orbit: you want to head into the Crucible? There's an NPC you can talk to to start that off (perhaps in the hangar, since you'll have to fly off in your ship to do that). Want to head out into the wilds to do a story mission or some freeform activities? There's another NPC or maybe even a direct map interface that you can interact with to start that off.

I appreciate that doing it this way would involve running to a specific location in The Tower to start them off, but in other MMOs there's a healthy duplication of NPCs, scattering them around cities, so that you never have to go too far to get them. Plus, at least by having the player in control sending them to their destination it helps sell the sense of immersion, since watching your ship autopilot above golden clouds really doesn't.

Right now Destiny has superb, engaging combat mechanics, and a fascinating, believable world to explore; it'd be great if the experience continued to be as engaging and convincing in the quiet moments of downtime in between firefights too.

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Except for Orbit, which is a typical main menu.

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Going back to Orbit (with the long load times) is far worse than a menu... Why can't we hold "Insert Button Here" to see the destination map and go between the destinations without cutting to the orbit scene? Ain't nobody got time for that.

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is far worse than a menu...

It's not very different from exiting to the main menu in a Halo game, although I'm inclined to agree that it doesn't have much purpose in Destiny (except maybe when the game first loads; you wouldn't necessarily want to automatically load to Tower, for instance).

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Enter the "Pathways Out of Darkness" ViDoc from early 2013.

[image]

They wouldn't just get rid of it. It was planned for far too long, and with a request like this when Bungie is so close from going Gold with Destiny, it's just not going to happen.

Complete sidenote: Man, this is the only time we'll see an Xbox UI in a Bungie/Activision released video. Oh well.

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They wouldn't just get rid of it. It was planned for far too long, and with a request like this when Bungie is so close from going Gold with Destiny, it's just not going to happen.

Yeah, I realise it's unlikely to happen for release, but judging from the reaction in the comments here this is a pretty common complaint; maybe they'll be do something about it in a future content release.

The way I look at this kind of UI flow is that it should be as friction-free as possible; any process that involves 3 steps when it could be 2 will involve hundreds, if not thousands of unnecessary actions over the lifetime of the game. That's definitely something that's worth investigating.

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I am surprised how clumsy some of this stuff is.

For example: when I pick a strike mission the UI says that the difficulty is normal. When I went to change it to hard I saw that my options were level 6 Normal and level 8 normal.

Which normal do I have by default?

When the UI says normal is that 6 normal or 8 normal?

To make sure that I get the harder difficulty I always specifically select 8.

It is possible that the default is 8 and I'm wasting my time, every time?

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- No text -

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I am surprised how clumsy some of this stuff is.
For example: when I pick a strike mission the UI says that the difficulty is normal. When I went to change it to hard I saw that my options were level 6 Normal and level 8 normal.
Which normal do I have by default?
When the UI says normal is that 6 normal or 8 normal?
To make sure that I get the harder difficulty I always specifically select 8.
It is possible that the default is 8 and I'm wasting my time, every time?

No, the second one is definitely the harder of the two. You get the Level 6 version by default. The difficulty setting options is one of the most dramatic changes from the Alpha, so I would expect that those UI elements are getting tweaked. I agree that two "Normal" settings are confusing, so I've chalked it up to Beta status. Sometimes the level of polish on this Beta is so remarkable that it's difficult to remember that this is pre-release!

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I'd like it to remember my last choice and to display clearly whatever I will get by default. (so I know if I need to change anything)

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The difficulty setting options is one of the most dramatic changes from the Alpha, so I would expect that those UI elements are getting tweaked. I agree that two "Normal" settings are confusing, so I've chalked it up to Beta status. Sometimes the level of polish on this Beta is so remarkable that it's difficult to remember that this is pre-release!

Odd, given that the UI is one of the things you would have expected to be the earliest to be nailed down (with release impending). The impression I'm getting is that Bungie stepped out of their comfort zone (for whatever reason) with this new interface direction, and so they're encountering a few snags and places where it's less intuitive than a more traditional d-pad controlled menu.

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I agree that two "Normal" settings are confusing, so I've chalked it up to Beta status.

It seems like that's variable based on your level, giving you a "You will find this normal" vs. "You will find this hard", rather than Normal difficulty vs. Hard difficulty.

So you've got the default mode, then you've got it with the "Heroic" modifier. When you're level 2 (for example) the level 2 story mission Restoration lists the Default as normal and Heroic as Hard. But when you're level 8 they'll both be comparatively easy, so they both get listed as Normal.

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I jumped into a group of Fallen and smashed the ground and not even the dregs died; luckily I had fully upgraded my double jump so I could run away with alacrity ;-)

basically every orifice was flapping

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For example: when I pick a strike mission the UI says that the difficulty is normal. When I went to change it to hard I saw that my options were level 6 Normal and level 8 normal.

Which normal do I have by default?

When the UI says normal is that 6 normal or 8 normal?

To make sure that I get the harder difficulty I always specifically select 8.

It is possible that the default is 8 and I'm wasting my time, every time?

The lower difficulty is always the default.

The higher difficulty for each mission has the 'heroic' modifier enabled:
"Enemies appear in greater numbers and are more aggressive."
If you've selected the higher difficulty, a little icon for this 'heroic' modifier will appear above the difficulty selection in space. You'll also see it in the bottom right when you press the trackpad to bring up your Ghost in-game.

'Normal' indicates the relative damage scaling. 1 level above and up to 3 levels below your level is 'normal.' You do much less damage per shot to 'hard' level enemies.

Here is my information:

Easy - "The enemy cowers before you. If your armour and weapons are good enough, victory will be easy." - 4 or more levels below yours.
Normal - "You and your opponents are fairly matched. With determination you will emerge victorious." - 1 level above or 3 levels below.
Hard - "Survival is not guaranteed. Only by demonstrating great skill you triumph against a relentless foe." - 2 or 3 levels above your own.
Very Hard - "The enemy is hungry for battle and ready to bathe in your tears. Only a fool would endure this punishment." - 4 or more levels above your own.

Hard is - perhaps unsurprisingly - really difficult. Enemies take a lot of headshots to kill. I just about managed to scrape through the 4 story missions with a new Hunter character selecting Hard every time. With plenty of deaths and very conservative strategies. As both a Warlock and Titan I got thrashed so gave up on those.

Very Hard only appears if you're a level 4 vs. The Last Array level 8. Depending on how you play, you might already be a level 5+ by the time you get here.

Any point in it?

Apart from the extra challenge, you also seem to get more bonus XP when you complete it the first time. Depending on the level, you'll get between 550 and 1100 extra XP compared to doing it on the lower difficulty. Plus since there are more enemies along the way, you can get a bit more from killing those as you go and not have to 'grind out' as much in other modes.

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I'm glad to hear that the effort wasn't wasted. I played 52 Strike missions and that would have added up to a lot of wasted cursor movement and button clicks if the setting had been harder by default.

Still, remember last choice, would have been best.

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I am surprised how clumsy some of this stuff is.

For example: when I pick a strike mission the UI says that the difficulty is normal. When I went to change it to hard I saw that my options were level 6 Normal and level 8 normal.

Which normal do I have by default?

When the UI says normal is that 6 normal or 8 normal?

To make sure that I get the harder difficulty I always specifically select 8.

It is possible that the default is 8 and I'm wasting my time, every time?

This is confusing. Why did they abandon easy / normal / heroic / legendary descriptors? No confusion. It was actually more clear in the Alpha, where you selected your difficulty (heroic / legend), then a graph told you if you were geared correctly for that difficulty.

What this new systems seems to be doing is having the level number be the difficulty, then a descriptor is applied to let you know how hard that level will be.

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1) level number plus difficulty is more confusing
2) not making the level number selection obvious on the front screen multiplies the confusion

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before I can click on a destination?

The orbit screen has loaded, the cursor is over tower, I click and nothing happens. I have to wait until I'm told I can click.

I understand that Destiny is very chatty. EVERYTHING involves sending and receiving packets from the server. Pretty much nothing is held locally.

But we can see the options so there must be some way to pick one earlier.

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Yeah, sadly I have to agree all around... As far as Destiny supposedly having no menu, it just has a super-elaborate menu. But, as someone said in the thread already, it's way too late for this to change. MAYBE in some major update, but even then, very unlikely.

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Bungie wants a public place where people can show off their stuff and be sociable but the hassle of getting there and back means that I put off going there as long as I can and when I do go I have specific things I need to do and I concentrate on them.

If I didn't have to decode stuff and put stuff in the vaults then I'd hardly go there.

Also, is it just me or does nobody bother with the gun selling guy? He sells stuff I can't use or stuff that is significantly worse than anything I already have. If what I suspect is true then Bungie will have the stats to confirm this.

And they cordon off the nicest part of the tower - it just seems to be the lobby for that Iron Banner thingy. What a waste of space - literally :-)

As for showing off my gear - I haven't felt the need. OTOH I do like the 3rd person view of my character - she's gorgeous - I'd shag me. And I like dancing for myself. But maybe that's TMI ;-)

Give us an area in the tower with poles and let us pole dance on them - that would be more sociable. If only Destiny had an Asari skin. Maybe we need somewhere like Purgatory. Is Bungie's Destiny too prudish? Can we have hot tubs?

Most of the lip colours are too extreme, the markings are mostly silly and some look a complete joke. Where are the Asian faces?

Why is it so hard to sit on all those leather couches? We seem to prefer to sit on the floor. Where we raised by wolves?

I'd like to be able to customize my salute. I've seen people do a European style bow, it's pretty cool. I'd like to be able to equip whichever:

bow
dance
or sitting ('normal', lotus position, that Japanese one you do in Aikido classes)

style that I want.

I'd like

salute
European bow
Japanse bow (hold down d-pad position to hold bow)
Namaste
wave

I'd also like an option to respond in kind - do whatever the other person has done to me. I don't mean that I have to choose it every time - I just check a checkbox on some setting screen and it's on until I switch it off. Maybe three settings:

always
first time
off

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Also, is it just me or does nobody bother with the gun selling guy? He sells stuff I can't use or stuff that is significantly worse than anything I already have. If what I suspect is true then Bungie will have the stats to confirm this.

Every once in a while he has a nice Green item to sell. I picked up a solid Scout Rifle from him at one point and used it for quite a while.

I'd like to be able to customize my salute. I've seen people do a European style bow, it's pretty cool. I'd like to be able to equip whichever:

The salutes appear to be tied to race. The bow is for the Awoken, whereas Humans wave, and Exos salute.

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Bungie wants a public place where people can show off their stuff and be sociable but the hassle of getting there and back means that I put off going there as long as I can and when I do go I have specific things I need to do and I concentrate on them.

If I didn't have to decode stuff and put stuff in the vaults then I'd hardly go there.

This, so much. That's why The Tower should be the hub of all activity rather than just a place for certain utility tasks.

Also, is it just me or does nobody bother with the gun selling guy? He sells stuff I can't use or stuff that is significantly worse than anything I already have. If what I suspect is true then Bungie will have the stats to confirm this.

The question with NPC gear vendors is almost always: what role do you want this vendor's gear to fulfil? Is it meant to be a route to reliably getting upgrades? Because that would seem to undermine the main way you get loot in the game (by playing the game!). This was the problem Diablo III's RMAH had, and ultimately it was the reason it was scrapped.

Alternatively, a vendor like this can play a useful role of ‘catch up’ for unlucky players. It's always possible that for whatever reason a player didn't get the gun they really wanted and have fallen behind compared to their level, so at this point the vendor can act as a safety net to prevent players getting too far behind. I suspect it's far more likely that Bungie intended him to fulfil this role, but with the addition of occasionally awesome items being available too (which muddies the water somewhat).

OTOH I do like the 3rd person view of my character - she's gorgeous - I'd shag me.

Creepy.

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That's why The Tower should be the hub of all activity rather than just a place for certain utility tasks.

But what are all those activities? The ones that aren't utility tasks? Do you just mean selecting destinations?

I would like to have the option of picking missions and destinations from the companion app.

I know that not everybody has one but so what? Let them use in-game mechanisms if they don't have a smart phone or tablet or don't want to go to their PC. I'm not advocating removing in-game mechanisms.

If I have my tablet beside me I can:

give or accept invitations
press the NEXT button to get the next mission
pick up messages without going to the tower
decrypt items
stick stuff in the vault
set a destination

All that without going to orbit or travelling to tower.

The Tower might become a ghost town and that would be a pity. The game would lose something but is it worth the hassle and does the tower deserve to live if it has nothing innately interesting about it?

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But what are all those activities? The ones that aren't utility tasks? Do you just mean selecting destinations?

Right now, that's basically it — but it also encapsulates the social side of things. I guess my perspective is coloured by my experience of similar things in other games, so I'm expecting that ultimately we will get some more rich communication between players, even if it's not directly voice / text chat.

I would like to have the option of picking missions and destinations from the companion app.

I know that not everybody has one but so what? Let them use in-game mechanisms if they don't have a smart phone or tablet or don't want to go to their PC. I'm not advocating removing in-game mechanisms.

Hey if that works for you, sure. I'm really not sure what the point of that is, personally (or indeed the companion app in general… I've not found any significant purpose for it yet).

The Tower might become a ghost town and that would be a pity. The game would lose something but is it worth the hassle and does the tower deserve to live if it has nothing innately interesting about it?

Valid questions that Bungie needs to answer!

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[*]or sitting ('normal', lotus position, that Japanese one you do in Aikido classes)

正座, literally "proper sitting"

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Also, is it just me or does nobody bother with the gun selling guy? He sells stuff I can't use or stuff that is significantly worse than anything I already have. If what I suspect is true then Bungie will have the stats to confirm this.

I always check all the vendors. Occasionally they have something green that's worth picking up. My Cydonia AR-3 I bought before I was even the right level, because it looked so nice.

And they cordon off the nicest part of the tower - it just seems to be the lobby for that Iron Banner thingy. What a waste of space - literally :-)

From the exterior shots of the tower there looks to be a large portion covered in trees. A garden perhaps? Hope we get to spend some time there in the final build.

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From the exterior shots of the tower there looks to be a large portion covered in trees. A garden perhaps? Hope we get to spend some time there in the final build.

It is, perhaps, the largest area of the tower, is very serene, and has gorgeous views of the mountains beyond.

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The pointlessness of Orbit neatly dovetails with another quibble I have with The Tower: it feels lifeless. We're sat right on the edge of a massive city, but other than a handful of Guardians at a time, there's not much going on in the Tower. It actually feels quite small and claustrophobic after a while, and the relative lack of NPCs undermines the sense of immersion. I've noticed there are quite a few places where other NPCs might hang out, so possibly the intention is to add more in the full game that aren't relevant during the beta, I'm not sure.

This is the same problem that Bioshock Infinite had - namely that the aesthetics suggested a larger world than what could be mechanically created, resulting in a disconnect. There's not much you can do to fix it besides upping the mechanical complexity of the game, or altering the aesthetics.

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I don't really like Orbit, but I think in the final game it'll be a lot cooler to see different ships and stuff. It does sort of seem like an unnecessary go-between from the Tower and everything else. I would really like to have different people in the Tower to send me directly on missions or to the Crucible, etc.

Also, why can't I customize my colors? :(

The only thing that seemed like it would let me, the shaders, isn't even accessible until Level 20.

There wasn't even a purple one...

(Okay, that was my one really bitchy post about the beta. No more whining.) :)

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The only thing that seemed like it would let me, the shaders, isn't even accessible until Level 20.

In the Alpha, there were Shaders available from the Faction and Crucible vendors, but those disappeared for the Beta. Now the only place I can find them (apart from the Iron Banner guy) is with the nice old lady in Tower North who also sells Emblems, and, as you said, those require Level 20. I hope we get some of those Shaders back for launch, they were really cool.

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How exactly do they work?

Do you expend a shader to apply one-color to your entire set of armor or piece-by-piece? Do you keep the shader in your inventory permanently or is it expended after each coloring?

Why isn't there purple? </3

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How exactly do they work?

Do you expend a shader to apply one-color to your entire set of armor or piece-by-piece? Do you keep the shader in your inventory permanently or is it expended after each coloring?

Why isn't there purple? </3

In the Alpha, you'd equip the Shader in one of your Vanity slots (same Inventory screen that shows your Ship, Sparrow, and Ghost Shell). Once you did that, any armor you were wearing that had a "Coating" on it (see pic below) would be re-colored to match whatever Shader you had equipped. Changing armor didn't affect the color (as long as it also had the Coating attribute).

The leftmost (me) and center (Biwald) characters in this pic are wearing the FWC shader in the Alpha:

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Oh nice!

That's what I was hoping for!

Now we just need purple and I'll be a happy camper. :D

Thanks man!

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Bungie: please ditch Orbit (Destiny)

"Destiny will have no main menu"

"Destiny will have no main menu"

"Destiny will have no main menu"

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

Why can't I manage my inventory in flight?

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

The Alpha Legendary was brutal

Beta Difficulty Levels

Beta Difficulty Levels

In a way, Orbit was planned since 2012.

It is double confusing

Why do I have to wait a second