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The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad (Destiny)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 12:34 (3467 days ago)

So I was able to finish the Vault of Glass a couple of days ago and I have oddly mix impressions of the experience.

The Good:

- The raid was easily the best teamwork based gameplay I've experienced, ever. Yeah, you sorta have to work together to do a vehicle based flag cap in Halo, but even the best, toughest, most well executed flag capture was nothing compared to the raid. Yes, it got a bit frustrating at times failing over and over, but looking back it's clear that we were failing because we weren't working together as a team. The way that teamwork was required to win felt both surprisingly natural and kinda amazing.

- The sections of the Templar fight were very interesting departures from standard Destiny game play, and sometimes a lot of fun to die at. It's funny remembering the times where we all got marked by an oracle and ran for the central glowing pool only to realize it wasn't glowing and we were all doomed. We really struggled against the final Templar encounter wiping over and over but then we regrouped and came up with a plan to spread out more and we took him down in one or two more tries. It was awesome to get stomped, identify why we were getting stomped, correct our mistakes, and very quickly see the results.

- We had a very humorous moment after the Templar fight where Kermit... well first he fell to his death... but then he took the wrong path. Instead of ending up at a loot chest with the rest of us he wandered into the Gorgon area and those of us who knew what was down there were practically yelling for him to "stop moving that direction" and to come back to us. Lots of laughing and talk of kindergarten single file lines ensued. :)

- The Gorgon's sneak area wasn't nearly as bad as I feared. We only got caught maybe five times and even then it never felt like an "...again..." type thing. We were lucky to have someone who knew where to go so that helped.

- The jumping puzzle was not nearly as big or as hard as I feared it would be. I had imagined it would go on a long long way when really it went out a bit then spiraled back in on itself. Amusingly I was the second to make it across then fell and was one of the last to make it. Luckily I was wearing headphones and I noticed that the puzzle was actually an audio puzzle instead of a visual one. You could try and watch and memorize the sections as they rezed in and out, but it was so much easier to listen for the next piece and jump blindly as it appeared beneath your feat. The directional audio even on simple $30 stereo headphones was an amazing help and it let me ignore Beorn's advice (where "left" seemed to mean turn a 180 then go left :p) and complete the puzzle in one go.

- We bogged down again at the retrieve the two relics section. Mostly I think our problem was people worrying about their teammates on the other side of the portal and everyone forgetting to defend the conflux. After a while we decided to tackle the past first using three people since it was a bit harder and then only send two into the future. It finally worked out when our two person future team went through the portal, nuked the Gatekeeper, then one of them (who was carrying the first relic) would cleanse the other then returned to the present to help defend the conflux.

- The Atheon fight wasn't all that hard... except we'd been playing for too many hours and kept wiping. When we returned a couple of days later it went much more smoothly. Still took us a few tries but we beat it fairly quickly. It did become clear that those not used to the Relic are going to have to practice up once the teleport change happens. Watching people flail off the edge of the map with the relic was pretty amusing. :)

The Bad:

- The Vault of Glass was kinda like Destiny summed up in one activity. It was very fun to play but almost completely failed at creating a sense of relevance or importance or connection to Destiny's larger world. Why were we as Guardians attacking this Vex stronghold? We aren't told one peep about it's importance. There was such a missed opportunity to emphasize both the Vex gaining some sort of important advantage via their time manipulation and the urgency and importance of our desperate mission to try and stop one of our most powerful enemies in their tracks by beating them on their home turf.

Maybe Destiny's MMO nature combined with the high level, and fireteam, and time requirements makes it so the VoG can't be directly in line with Destiny's main story, but surely it could still be made up as a big deal with proper cutscenes and intros and hints at the Vex gaining an unusual advantage in other parts of the game. Just saying something like "only a select few Guardians can be trusted with this mission" during a briefing could distance it from the main story while making you feel all the more important that you were one of the relative few to be chosen for such an important mission. Instead you're just dumped in the middle of Venus without so much as a standard Ghost voice over...

- If the build up and importance of the Vault of Glass was badly done then the way it ends is worthy of repeatedly and painfully banging your facepalm on your desk. We go through all these challenges and destroy all these presumably important Vex systems and minds and we get... a standard mission ending countdown?! There's not a final door that beating Atheon gives you access to or even something as simple as a final chest revealed for beating Destiny's hardest challenge? There's certainly no bigger in world results from completing this daring raid! Sure, finally coming together as a team and executing a strategy well time after time was great but the apparent result was such a depressing letdown.

If beating the Vault of Glass can't really affect the rest of Destiny's story or gameplay I would have loved to get some tremendous in-Vault effects. Have those huge shards of glass shatter in spectacular fashion! Or have something time-travel-y and advantageous to The City or The Traveler happen! Basically do anything other than leave a successful team of six standing around with a bog standard countdown that freezes on zero!

Worse, for me, was I didn't even see Atheon die. I was the designated Relic Guy and had my back turned since I was jumping towards the back of the room for the next trip through time. I started my jump right when people started yelling that we got him. By the time I turned around there was nothing left to see. I was glad we won but I also had this crappy feeling for having missed our victory. The raid which had been so much fun ended with an unexpected whimper for me.

- Finally, I didn't enter the Vault of Glass for loot. My Titan who I was playing already had legendary or exotic everything. But even though I was happy with my current gear, not getting anything from the final battle but some shards and a shader when I had just completely missed the final kill felt pretty dang bad. I actually made out decently in the raid since I got a full set of raid armor (chest, arms, boots) via the rewards and loot caches leading up to the final room... but at the end others were getting awesome one of a kind ships and great primary weapons and I got three shards and the same shader that everyone else got. If anyone noticed I was almost completely silent at the end it's because I was feeling pretty down but didn't want to ruin anyone else's good time.

A couple things could fix this uneven rewards problem:

- First, and maybe it's just me, but the Chatterwhite shader is not nearly unique enough of a reward for completing one of Destiny's hardest challenges. It is far too close to the Iron Banner shader and to Gilgamesh (I think) which all three outfiting me in mostly white armor. If the shader is going to be the one thing that everyone gets it needs to really pop visually or glow in the dark or pulse with strange temporal energy. Right now it is... white. And that's all.

- Second, the final reward needs to be more equal. Not everyone needs to get the exact same thing but certainly everyone should get something tangible to show off. Whether that's a ship or a gun or a Sparrow or class item doesn't matter so much, but handing one person one (or more!) tangible items while the other person only gets energy or shards that will soon be used up felt very uneven to me.

In the end, I had a ton of fun playing the raid and would love to do it again, it was easily one of Destiny's highlights. But, at the same time, its significant lack of story integration (other than a few Grimoire cards), its "so now what" anti-climatic conclusion, and its uneven final loot distribution left me in something of a negative mood. :(

a well-written and fair review. Thanks!

by Oholiab @, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 13:08 (3467 days ago) @ Ragashingo

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The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 13:25 (3467 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- Finally, I didn't enter the Vault of Glass for loot. My Titan who I was playing already had legendary or exotic everything. But even though I was happy with my current gear, not getting anything from the final battle but some shards and a shader when I had just completely missed the final kill felt pretty dang bad. I actually made out decently in the raid since I got a full set of raid armor (chest, arms, boots) via the rewards and loot caches leading up to the final room... but at the end others were getting awesome one of a kind ships and great primary weapons and I got three shards and the same shader that everyone else got. If anyone noticed I was almost completely silent at the end it's because I was feeling pretty down but didn't want to ruin anyone else's good time.

Um... I got two shards and the chatterwhite shader after Atheon fell. You weren't alone in that room. :)

The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by ZaneZavin @, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 15:43 (3467 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Did you really get 3 different pieces of raid armor and then complain about what you got at the end? I've seen people quit the game because they can't get the armor after 10+ raid clears. (The guy I'm referring to is a bit of a drama queen, but I can understand it to an extent)

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The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 16:15 (3467 days ago) @ ZaneZavin

Did you really get 3 different pieces of raid armor and then complain about what you got at the end? I've seen people quit the game because they can't get the armor after 10+ raid clears. (The guy I'm referring to is a bit of a drama queen, but I can understand it to an extent)

In hindsight, yeah that's crazy. But in the moment you are getting armor every time and then the last one you get basically nothing, I can understand it. It is the one complaint I have about the loot system: accomplishments are rarely rewarded but rather luck. If it were setup to reward accomplishment you'd get the most "exciting" piece of loot when you beat Atheon.

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The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 16:38 (3467 days ago) @ ZaneZavin

Did you really get 3 different pieces of raid armor and then complain about what you got at the end? I've seen people quit the game because they can't get the armor after 10+ raid clears. (The guy I'm referring to is a bit of a drama queen, but I can understand it to an extent)

Well, I said some other things too, but yes. Remember though, it's not so much about what I got or didn't get. Like I said, I didn't go into the raid looking for loot. My complaint is mostly about the finesse and presentation of the thing. I'm of the opinion that the conclusion of a raid should be a big momentous event filled with explosions and interesting story information and, yes, if you're going to reward loot have it be significant loot that is only delivered at the end so as to drive home the accomplishment. Instead, I got less of a conclusion than even the plot-anemic Strikes and Story Missions delivered. Those at least have your Ghost sum up your accomplishments and then show you how well you did. The raid? You watch a counter reach zero and... that's it. The gameplay was great but the fit and finish before and after it was completely non-existent.

It would be the Halo equivalent of killing Guilty Spark in Halo 3 and having the Master Chief and Johnson just staying right where they were... not doing anything... until you press start and quit out of the mission.

Fire team intro would be nice too

by Blue_Blazer_NZ, Wellington, New Zealand, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 18:56 (3467 days ago) @ Ragashingo

After loading into the VoG, it would be nice if there was a fire team intro sequence similar to what they do at the beginning of each Crucible match. It's a small thing, but I quite like the "team bonding" feel of it.

The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Avateur @, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 20:58 (3467 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- Finally, I didn't enter the Vault of Glass for loot. My Titan who I was playing already had legendary or exotic everything. But even though I was happy with my current gear, not getting anything from the final battle but some shards and a shader when I had just completely missed the final kill felt pretty dang bad. I actually made out decently in the raid since I got a full set of raid armor (chest, arms, boots) via the rewards and loot caches leading up to the final room... but at the end others were getting awesome one of a kind ships and great primary weapons and I got three shards and the same shader that everyone else got. If anyone noticed I was almost completely silent at the end it's because I was feeling pretty down but didn't want to ruin anyone else's good time.

Sorry to be super picky and only reply to this part, but for real? I've done this thing five times and I still haven't gotten all Raid gear. I'm permanently stuck at 29 unless I get it. I get that you're upset that the final loot drop didn't give you much, but you came out by far with the best prizes if you ask me. Also, value those shards, especially since you'll need them to be a 30 soon.

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The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 21:17 (3467 days ago) @ Avateur

Sorry to be super picky and only reply to this part, but for real? I've done this thing five times and I still haven't gotten all Raid gear. I'm permanently stuck at 29 unless I get it. I get that you're upset that the final loot drop didn't give you much, but you came out by far with the best prizes if you ask me. Also, value those shards, especially since you'll need them to be a 30 soon.

I think I got fairly lucky, in that I got raid gear to get to 30 without running it too many times. I was just playing it to have fun, and happened to get the armor. I have had bad luck with weapons though. I'm still dreaming of the Fatebringer, Timepiece, Vision of Confluence, and the Mythoclast.

The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Avateur @, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 22:15 (3467 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I think I got fairly lucky, in that I got raid gear to get to 30 without running it too many times. I was just playing it to have fun, and happened to get the armor. I have had bad luck with weapons though. I'm still dreaming of the Fatebringer, Timepiece, Vision of Confluence, and the Mythoclast.

I've only played the Raid to have fun, and while I'm fully aware that an RNG is an RNG because it's an RNG, I still wonder if the RNG has a personal grudge against me. It's crazy that in the Raid I just can't get the armor I need. It doesn't even give me Ascendant Shards. I get so much Ascendant Energy that I honestly don't need that it's kind of baffling to me.

As for weapons, I got Atheon's Epilogue, and even though it has hardly any Impact, I really enjoy using it. Just tears Vex apart.

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The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 22:03 (3467 days ago) @ Avateur

- Finally, I didn't enter the Vault of Glass for loot. My Titan who I was playing already had legendary or exotic everything. But even though I was happy with my current gear, not getting anything from the final battle but some shards and a shader when I had just completely missed the final kill felt pretty dang bad. I actually made out decently in the raid since I got a full set of raid armor (chest, arms, boots) via the rewards and loot caches leading up to the final room... but at the end others were getting awesome one of a kind ships and great primary weapons and I got three shards and the same shader that everyone else got. If anyone noticed I was almost completely silent at the end it's because I was feeling pretty down but didn't want to ruin anyone else's good time.


Sorry to be super picky and only reply to this part, but for real? I've done this thing five times and I still haven't gotten all Raid gear. I'm permanently stuck at 29 unless I get it. I get that you're upset that the final loot drop didn't give you much, but you came out by far with the best prizes if you ask me. Also, value those shards, especially since you'll need them to be a 30 soon.

When a certain set of armor holds no interest for me, then yes, for real. Perhaps getting to level 30 is important to you. It isn't to me. Heck, I'd give you my raid armor if I could.

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It's too easy

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 21:23 (3467 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Thinking back to when I first tried the raid, I never would have imagined that it would ultimately end up being relatively easy. I just did it with a group in 1 hr 10 min on hard.

If I could make one change, it would be to keep the confluxes active while the legions rush, and force the team to kill them all. Right now, it's too easy to hang back and pick them off slowly until they despawn.

Obviously adding the baby bumpers helps too, but we did it the real way which is honestly faster and easier at this point.

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Are the random teleports enabled yet?

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Wednesday, October 22, 2014, 22:31 (3467 days ago) @ Cody Miller

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I don't think so.

by sorahn ⌂, Thursday, October 23, 2014, 09:28 (3467 days ago) @ Beorn

- No text -

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It's too easy

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Thursday, October 23, 2014, 09:30 (3467 days ago) @ Cody Miller

If I could make one change, it would be to keep the confluxes active while the legions rush, and force the team to kill them all. Right now, it's too easy to hang back and pick them off slowly until they despawn.

you don't even have to fight the legions, just hide in the hole with the spirit bloom chest until they despawn on their own.

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It's too easy

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, October 23, 2014, 13:02 (3466 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

Or you can take my personal favorite approach: stay up on the spawn platform and obliterate them with void grenades and nova bombs :D

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The Vault of Glass: The Good and Bad

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, October 23, 2014, 10:29 (3467 days ago) @ Ragashingo


- We had a very humorous moment after the Templar fight where Kermit... well first he fell to his death... but then he took the wrong path. Instead of ending up at a loot chest with the rest of us he wandered into the Gorgon area and those of us who knew what was down there were practically yelling for him to "stop moving that direction" and to come back to us. Lots of laughing and talk of kindergarten single file lines ensued. :)

In my defense, Boern took us a different way than I knew, and I may have the brightness turned down too far--there are some areas during this part where my screen is basically black. I knew I was near Gorgon's Labyrinth, and was trying to be careful, but my main concern was trying to find a way back to wherever you all were.

Later, I was trying to go to where I knew there was a chest, but Boern explained to me that we'd already come through that area.

Had a great experience playing with you all. It was fun getting to be on the away team--my first time I rarely did that.

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