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Iron Banner's back. More tips? (Destiny)

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 12:45 (3402 days ago)

Starting with a question that's driving me mad. Why can't people figure out that the the key to winning Firebase Delphi in Control is zone A. The team that controls zone A will eventually control zone B because of the proximity and protection of the spawn location.

Can't stand to see my team keep capturing C. It's almost a guaranteed loss. Makes me wish friendly fire was on sometimes. Last night in the Iron Banner, we were losing pretty handily until I managed to solo capture A and flopped the spawns. We made a good comeback after that.

Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 13:08 (3402 days ago) @ BeardFade

Starting with a question that's driving me mad. Why can't people figure out that the the key to winning Firebase Delphi in Control is zone A. The team that controls zone A will eventually control zone B because of the proximity and protection of the spawn location.

Can't stand to see my team keep capturing C. It's almost a guaranteed loss. Makes me wish friendly fire was on sometimes. Last night in the Iron Banner, we were losing pretty handily until I managed to solo capture A and flopped the spawns. We made a good comeback after that.

Heh - I have the same problem on Blind Watch. Hold C, get B because it's easy from C. Then halfway through the match, some idiot on your team snags A, and suddenly you're spawning across the map, with a huge hike to get back into the action. STOP CAPTURING A, YOU IDIOTS!

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Agreed

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 13:14 (3402 days ago) @ Claude Errera

- No text -

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 14:37 (3402 days ago) @ Claude Errera

yep, we had a party of 5 last night with a sizeable lead, and the one random in our group capped A. we were done for after that. By the time we got C back, the score was neck and neck and we ended up losing.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 13:51 (3401 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

I'd really prefer if Control featured three cap points that moved periodically, instead of the three static points. Or even a static B near the center of the map, and A and C that did a sort of Crazy King deal. It would solve the problem of one point always being the neglected/certain-death point.

~m

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 16:45 (3401 days ago) @ Malagate

That's not a bad idea. Every 5 minutes, or so, maybe?

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 23:53 (3402 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I resent the idea that someone taking an undefended base is an idiot.

They're just not strategizing, instead playing in the moment.

It's not that they're stupid, they just don't understand why not taking a certain base can be beneficial, because they never stopped to think about it.

I know I certainly didn't.

Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 00:24 (3402 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

I resent the idea that someone taking an undefended base is an idiot.

They're just not strategizing, instead playing in the moment.

It's not that they're stupid, they just don't understand why not taking a certain base can be beneficial, because they never stopped to think about it.

I know I certainly didn't.

I'm fine with that... for beginning players. Even players that have... oh, I dunno, 100 games under their belt.

But folks who are Crucible Rank 3 or 4, who are STILL taking A on Blind Watch? That means they're not even thinking about what they're doing when they play! (There's almost no action that happens around A - so even if you're playing in the moment, you STILL have to run all the way from A to ANYWHERE - and if you do that a dozen times in a game, over 50 or 100 or even more games, and you don't even NOTICE it's happening... you're hurting your team. Badly. )

There's playing in the moment, and there's playing stoned. I'd rather if you're stoned that you watch Netflix instead.

How's that?

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 06:07 (3402 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I resent the idea that someone taking an undefended base is an idiot.

They're just not strategizing, instead playing in the moment.

It's not that they're stupid, they just don't understand why not taking a certain base can be beneficial, because they never stopped to think about it.

I know I certainly didn't.


I'm fine with that... for beginning players. Even players that have... oh, I dunno, 100 games under their belt.

But folks who are Crucible Rank 3 or 4, who are STILL taking A on Blind Watch? That means they're not even thinking about what they're doing when they play! (There's almost no action that happens around A - so even if you're playing in the moment, you STILL have to run all the way from A to ANYWHERE - and if you do that a dozen times in a game, over 50 or 100 or even more games, and you don't even NOTICE it's happening... you're hurting your team. Badly. )

There's playing in the moment, and there's playing stoned. I'd rather if you're stoned that you watch Netflix instead.

How's that?

I often see people capping A in this fashion when there is a 'capture 10 zones' bounty available. The fact that there are bounties encouraging players to play sub-optimally is what's really idiotic.

That said, that bounty causes some extremely frantic and entertaining games.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 06:43 (3402 days ago) @ Claude Errera

There's playing in the moment, and there's playing stoned. I'd rather if you're stoned that you watch Netflix instead.


lol, I played Crota's End last week with a group from DestinyLFG. One guy kept hitting a bong and leaving his mic on.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 08:07 (3402 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I guess? But I think saying someone who is playing in a manner that's hurting their team is stoned or an idiot is rather extreme.

It's quite a bit easier to just focus on running at a base and shooting the people repeatedly than you seem to be maintaining.

I think, actually, that this optimal strategy being taken for granted is one of those things that being in a community like DBO is responsible for, in part.

Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 08:52 (3401 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

I guess? But I think saying someone who is playing in a manner that's hurting their team is stoned or an idiot is rather extreme.

It's quite a bit easier to just focus on running at a base and shooting the people repeatedly than you seem to be maintaining.

I think, actually, that this optimal strategy being taken for granted is one of those things that being in a community like DBO is responsible for, in part.

Yup. And my original post was more of a joke than a real complaint. (This is a game, after all.)

But if I have to be all serious and not call people idiots (or suggest they're acting in a way that implies some sort of altered state), just because I work on this site... okay.

They're not idiots. And they're not stoned. They're just not thinking very much about how their actions are affecting their team.

Sorry, I'll stay away from the levity.

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Whoops

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 09:08 (3401 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Sorry for mistaking levity for malice.

Tone and all that kinda gets lost on the internet in a lot of cases.

My bad... I think I was being too serious.

by ckamp, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 10:55 (3401 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Yeah, tone gets lost on the internet. You have a right to joke and let off steam and I'm sorry if you felt I was curbing that for you. My bad.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 16:50 (3401 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

I agree. I think Raichu is just saying being offensive here isn't necessary. A person may simply be unaware, or perhaps even incapable at the time, of good strategy. I actually think a high percentage of players don't understand that capturing a particular zone can be strategically bad decision. I think it's fair to say that some players are more inclined to understanding more nuanced strategies than others. The same thing happens in sports, and gaining that situational awareness only comes through either being very perceptive as you play (so as to learn for yourself) or having a good coach teach you what to do in certain situations. So in this case, we need to find a way to help other players be more situationally aware.

That being said, they still drive me mad. I'm not the most patient person.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 06:42 (3402 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

I resent the idea that someone taking an undefended base is an idiot.

They're just not strategizing, instead playing in the moment.

It's not that they're stupid, they just don't understand why not taking a certain base can be beneficial, because they never stopped to think about it.

I know I certainly didn't.

Depends. I've gone into team chat to let people know that we should focus on B & C, and have been told to "shut up f*g" or "suck my d*ck," or even just a simple "you don't know what you're doing."

So there are definitely a lot of idiots out there.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 07:57 (3402 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

Oh, yeah, there are definitely idiots who do that, I just don't think that everybody who does that is (necessarily) an idiot.

Mainly because I'd like to not be indirectly called an idiot.

Or stoned, for that matter.

Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by ckamp, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 08:47 (3401 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

Oh, yeah, there are definitely idiots who do that, I just don't think that everybody who does that is (necessarily) an idiot.

I'm with you on this. The game mechanics and systems give people positive feedback when a team controls all the zones. A person not realizing the connection between spawning and map control while receiving this positive feedback is understandable. Plus, I hate calling someone an idiot when they probably think that they are helping the team.

I don't think I'm an idiot, but I'm not sure I would have picked up on the "ignore A" strategy had I not seen people talking about it here first. That is one of the things I love about DBO. I get exposed to way more ideas than I would ever come up with on my own and hence I learn a lot from everyone here. Not everyone participates in or observes that kind of community... I don't think that makes them an idiot, they just have different priorities in life.

My $0.02

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 13:11 (3402 days ago) @ BeardFade

Starting with a question that's driving me mad. Why can't people figure out that the the key to winning Firebase Delphi in Control is zone A. The team that controls zone A will eventually control zone B because of the proximity and protection of the spawn location.

Can't stand to see my team keep capturing C. It's almost a guaranteed loss. Makes me wish friendly fire was on sometimes. Last night in the Iron Banner, we were losing pretty handily until I managed to solo capture A and flopped the spawns. We made a good comeback after that.

Ooh, I've got a great IB tip. Play with DBO peeps instead of randoms!

J/K

When you get stuck with randoms like this, just do your best to control the correct control points. On Blind Watch, immediately start working on C if your team loses it and ignore B. B is a death sentence if the other team owns C usually.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 13:37 (3402 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

Though you were joking, you're probably right. I just joined the forum, ckamp/Robot Chickens encouraged me to, so I don't have too many DBOs on my friends list yet. IB/Crucible is much more fun with teammates you can communicate with.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 13:42 (3402 days ago) @ BeardFade

Pro-Tip: If you jump in with Randoms, don't concentrate on winning if your team is less than skilled. Focus on your bounties first, then focus on your own K/D.

You stress out far less if you don't get annoyed by Randoms.

Applies to any game, really.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 15:08 (3402 days ago) @ BeardFade

So here's what I try and accomplish per map:

  • Firebase Delphi: Capture A to Capture B
  • Blind Watch: Capture C to Capture B
  • Shores of Time: Capture C to Capture B, especially since you can hold B from a distance with good sniping.
  • Rusted Lands: Little more even of a map, but I think the advantage goes to the team who holds A, shorter distance to B, plus advantage of having the higher ground.
  • Twighlight Gap: Who the hell knows? Might be the only map where holding A and C works. Running back and forth between them might be your best strategy.

I think those are the standard Control maps now since Bastion and First Light were taken out of the rotation.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 15:28 (3402 days ago) @ BeardFade

[*]Rusted Lands: Little more even of a map, but I think the advantage goes to the team who holds A, shorter distance to B, plus advantage of having the higher ground.
[*]Twighlight Gap: Who the hell knows? Might be the only map where holding A and C works. Running back and forth between them might be your best strategy.


We had a lengthy thread about Rusted Lands and ultimately got nowhere with the best way to hold it. Either get A&B and float in that clearing area between the two areas (giving you exclusive rights to A heavy and a chance to snipe the other heavy from B), or grab B&C and float around the heavy there (protecting it jealously). I've had success in either direction; lately A&B have been yielding the best results.

I've found it quite productive on Twilight Gap to grab B and then post up in the little tunnel underneath that higher area people always drop in from; you can pick off a lot of people as they run to B, and snipe out from the tunnel as they drop in on either side of the chasm. One person can usually hold B at length while the rest of the team secures A or C and then presses from there.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 16:10 (3402 days ago) @ iconicbanana

I've been occasionally able to hold B by myself as well. I use a shotgun and prefer to stand outside of the cage and actually look through the wiring of the cage to see enemies coming at me from the other side. Provides cover while allowing me to time my attack. It's been pretty effective lately.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 16:12 (3402 days ago) @ BeardFade

I've been occasionally able to hold B by myself as well. I use a shotgun and prefer to stand outside of the cage and actually look through the wiring of the cage to see enemies coming at me from the other side. Provides cover while allowing me to time my attack. It's been pretty effective lately.

The only problem with being anywhere near the cage is you'll usually be on the receiving end of a super/grenade/rocket as the enemy comes in; one of the benefits of the tunnel is you'll get some potshots on your opponent as they come in to the cage, since they'll be looking for you there or to cap, and may not be aware you have line of sight.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 21:52 (3402 days ago) @ iconicbanana

Very true, I will keep this in mind.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 16:25 (3402 days ago) @ BeardFade

IB is easier this time around than ever! Watch with glee as Christmas Noobs log in at level 21! Seriously my team won a game 20,000 - 3,000 last night on Delphi.

Seriously, the key this time around is to have a fireteam of at least 3 level 30+ players. That alone should carry most games.

But hey, let's get map specific:

Firebase Delphi -> Controlling A leads to Controlling B leads to killing everyone who spawns at C and jumps through the Window of Death.

Blind Watch -> Controlling C leads to Controlling B leads to killing everyone who spawns at A and runs through the Door of Doom. I like to snipe from the heavy ammo spawn at the bottom of the stairs.

Anomaly -> It's a circle. One player should stand on the opposite side of the circle from point B and shoot people who try to take point B. Everyone else should take point B and then at least one of the other two points. B is the key since it has the most access to the rest of the map. It is fully possible to 3-cap this map and run away with the game.

Shores of Time -> When Heavy Ammo is getting ready to spawn, let your opponent take point C. You want to be at point A or point B to get the ammo. At all other times, it doesn't matter as much.

Exodus Blue -> Controlling point C leads to controlling B. C also has superior sniper coverage of the A side spawns. There's a secret path to the A side heavy ammo by running along a pipe on the outside of the map. I use that path a lot to get behind people at A who are waiting for heavy ammo.

Twilight Gap -> Controlling B is key since the other two points are easily exchangeable. If you opponent has B, go get it. Then go back to getting after the other A or C point that you don't have. Note that B is not worth defending from inside the zone - you're much better off shooting people who are trying to take it.

Rusted Lands -> Controlling A and B also controls both heavy ammo spawns. Controlling B and C also controls the easiest paths to defend. Be aware of when heavy ammo will spawn and make sure you control the right bases at the right times.

I probably missed a map or two. Whichever.

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Iron Banner's back. More tips?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Wednesday, January 14, 2015, 21:52 (3402 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I play Blind watch the same way. I find that sniping the door is great and I can actually run out the far doors and snipe C if I notice someone is trying to take it behind me.

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Shores of Time

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 13:12 (3401 days ago) @ BeardFade

On Shores of Time, I like to capture B + C, then sit back behind C with a good sniper rifle. You can toast a lot of enemies trying to cap B by shooting through the door or by sniping enemies approaching C. Occasionally, I'll move over behind B and snipe people coming through the tunnels in the middle.

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Shores of Time

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Thursday, January 15, 2015, 16:53 (3401 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

Agreed. Once we hold C, I will snipe B. I have patience and time (third eye perk) and as soon as i see red on my radar at 9 o'clock, i adjust, running right and get on the structure to snipe down C and hold the zone. Occassionally, I will snipe the tunnels and sometimes get someone capping B from there as well. In that case, if I see C getting captured, I can still run on top of the structure and snipe C with a chance of holding the zone from a distance.

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