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Why I Am Done With Destiny (Destiny)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, January 26, 2015, 00:16 (3381 days ago)

It's not the years, it's the mileage...

The above quote has nothing to do with this topic at all but I like it so I put it at the top. It just feels to me that a topic this final deserves some sort of quote! :p What's really going on is I'm not going to be playing Destiny for the forseeable future for two reasons:

1. Having just beat Crota's end, and having already beaten everything else multiple times, I have now done all the content I wish to do. That's not to say I don't still have fun playing Destiny. I am not burnt out like some around here who often complain to be before they dive back in for another round. Playing by myself is still a lot of fun. Playing Crucible is a lot of fun. Playing Strikes is still very enjoyable baring lag or idiots who take up a player slot while not contributing anything. And playing a Raid with a group of DBOers is still an amazing experience. But, while it is still fun to do all those things... I find myself wanting to play other games and rerunning Destiny has lost some appeal because:

2. I want a few specific items from Destiny's arsenal of exotic guns and armors... two exacty, Red Death and Voidfang Vestments... and there is no way for me to get them other than random chance. In the past two weeks I have run a pair of Raids, four Nightfall Strikes, somewhere between four and six Weekly Heroic Strikes, several Daily Story Missions, and a whole ton of the ROC playlist along with a scattering of Crucible and regular missions turned up to Heroic levels... and despite all that I'm not an inch closer to the items I want. I've said many many times that I don't grind in Destiny, but despite the past two weeks being generally fun they have also most definitely been grinding... so I'm ending it. I will not be playing Destiny again until the debut of the House of Wolves.

DeeJ recently said:

Keep talking to us about what you’re seeing out in the wild, and don’t pull any punches about the things you want us to work on."

My advice then would be for Bungie to give every exotic item the same amount of backstory as The Last Word and give players set, dependable paths to any given exotic through quests similar to the bounties for Murmur, or Super Good Advice, or Thorn. Ideally, the two, backstory and quest mechanics, should strongly mesh hand in hand to provide players with some awesome experiences and terrific stories of daring do. That, and while random chance is good for delighting players from time to time with unexpected rewards... it pretty much sucks as the primary or only method to distribute the coolest gear... :(

Naturally, you'll be seeing a bit less of me around here since I won't have any tales of Destiny successes or frustrations. Maybe when I fully return though I'll have something really interesting to share... at least that's my plan.

See you starside! Be Brave! Etc, etc... :)

Why I Am Done With Destiny

by snakegriffin ⌂, MD, Monday, January 26, 2015, 03:56 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I share your sentiments almost exactly. For me it is really a time thing. I haven't even finished Crota's End yet, because I can rarely line up a few hours that coincides with a raid group. I love the feel of the game, but I typically have one hour here, another hour there, and that is simply not enough to get loot/gear that you want. It would be another thing if you could just go find a quest for something you really wanted, a la Skyrim/Fallout, but the random factor does not work. The shootiness of Destiny is amazing, and the raids are awesome. I even got into the Crucible and enjoyed it. I just simply don't have hundreds of hours to put into a game anymore. What happened to a 20-hour campaign that blows you away and gets you thinking?

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Later Ragashingo. ;_;

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, January 26, 2015, 04:50 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- No text -

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We'll miss you

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Monday, January 26, 2015, 05:22 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

+1 on giving players non-ramdom ways to acquire exotics. It shouldn't be easy, but it would be rewarding.

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You'll still be here, though, right?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, January 26, 2015, 07:11 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- No text -

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You'll still be here, though, right?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, January 26, 2015, 08:29 (3381 days ago) @ ZackDark

Sure! And I'm not opposed to the occasional raid or Crucible run. But those will be special events and my Destiny disk will be safely within its box within its loot crate most of the time. :)

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You'll still be here, though, right?

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Monday, January 26, 2015, 10:22 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I'll be doing my best to tempt you back into the game when I finally get time to play it more!

Why I Am Done With Destiny

by Claude Errera @, Monday, January 26, 2015, 08:32 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

This makes me sad. :(

You've been a part of some of the most fun I've had in Destiny (getting pushed off ledges notwithstanding). I'm sorry to see you go!

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Why I Am Done With Destiny

by nico, Monday, January 26, 2015, 09:33 (3381 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Pretty much what Claude said. Who is going to revive me when I fall in those big holes : (

Kudos

by ckamp, Monday, January 26, 2015, 09:30 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I haven't played with you a ton, but it has always been fun when I do so I share Claude's sentiments.

At the same time... way to resist those skinner boxes! Seriously, it is hard to recognize that line between when you're having fun chasing a target and when it becomes a grind. Keeping your distance is actually the best way to ensure that you'll have fun in the future. We would all be wise to learn from you.

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Kudos

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, January 26, 2015, 09:45 (3381 days ago) @ ckamp

I haven't played with you a ton, but it has always been fun when I do so I share Claude's sentiments.

At the same time... way to resist those skinner boxes! Seriously, it is hard to recognize that line between when you're having fun chasing a target and when it becomes a grind. Keeping your distance is actually the best way to ensure that you'll have fun in the future. We would all be wise to learn from you.

Ditto. And I have the same issue, Ragashingo, regarding having other games I want to play. For a long time I was a Bungie gamer almost exclusively. I've really branched out the last several years, and had some fantastic experiences. I'm still having fun, but I do find myself thinking of other ways to have fun that I might be missing. I've stopped buying games unless I'm sure that I will start them immediately.

Take care, and see you soon.

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Kudos

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Monday, January 26, 2015, 10:37 (3381 days ago) @ Kermit

Ditto. And I have the same issue, Ragashingo, regarding having other games I want to play. For a long time I was a Bungie gamer almost exclusively. I've really branched out the last several years, and had some fantastic experiences. I'm still having fun, but I do find myself thinking of other ways to have fun that I might be missing. I've stopped buying games unless I'm sure that I will start them immediately.

Take care, and see you soon.

I've never seen playing other games as somehow a slight for my love for Bungie games. :) Since Destiny launched, I've played a few Lego games with my girlfriend, explored some of Kingdoms of Amalur, played a little GTAV, and I'll be trying Witcher 2 soon since it was one of those free Gold games.

I think playing a variety of games actually makes Destiny (or any game) more fun, especially when you find a nice balance of styles. I always enjoy playing an RPG and an FPS alternately for a few months, allowing me to go slow or fast dependent upon my mood. It also usually allows me to enjoy both fantasy and sci-fi settings without getting too much of one for too long of time.

What I really like about Destiny at this point in its life and mine is the ability to drop in and play a few Crucible rounds, missions/patrols, or a daily/weekly and then jump back out. It's really easy to get to something fun quickly and still be able to hop out and go back to real life crap. Hopefully I'll have more time to play more regularly and with DBO brethren soon.

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Kudos

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Monday, January 26, 2015, 10:54 (3381 days ago) @ Leviathan

I played some Minecraft this weekend for a change of pace (and also because I wasn't feeling well and Destiny requires more effort to play). I think it's good to change things up every once in a while.

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Kudos

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Monday, January 26, 2015, 11:07 (3381 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

I played some Minecraft this weekend for a change of pace (and also because I wasn't feeling well and Destiny requires more effort to play). I think it's good to change things up every once in a while.

Yeah, playtime (or watch-time, etc.) doesn't have to indicate your enjoyment. I don't watch my favorite movie or TV show every night. I take breaks listening to my favorite bands for years and then come back to them. Hell, there's stuff from every medium that I never want to experience again because they were so good the first time. I'd never want to mar those memories.

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Kudos

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, January 26, 2015, 13:46 (3381 days ago) @ Leviathan


I've never seen playing other games as somehow a slight for my love for Bungie games. :) ...

I didn't mean to imply that. My history with video games is different than that of most people here, I imagine, in that I didn't have a console or a computer growing up (the original Xbox was my first console, not counting the Pong machine I had as a kid). I played in the arcades, then moved to the early Mac games, then finally got a computer capable of running a Bungie game, and for years they were my go-to game company with few exceptions (like Deus Ex).

I have played a few games since Destiny came out. I played through Halo 2 again. Played some great Halo CE custom matches with old friends. I played some of the Walking Dead (thinking that by now surely they would have fixed the lack of inverted!). Started The Unfinished Swan, which is a nice change of pace. What I haven't felt motivated to do is play something that requires a significant time investment, like Shadow of Mordor or my long overdue playthrough of Mass Effect 2 with femshep. I'm sure that day is coming.


What I really like about Destiny at this point in its life and mine is the ability to drop in and play a few Crucible rounds, missions/patrols, or a daily/weekly and then jump back out. It's really easy to get to something fun quickly and still be able to hop out and go back to real life crap. Hopefully I'll have more time to play more regularly and with DBO brethren soon.

Yeah, it's good for that. Hope we get to play sometime soon.

Witcher 2 is awesome

by marmot 1333 @, Monday, January 26, 2015, 14:03 (3381 days ago) @ Leviathan

It has really smooth sword fighting.

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Kudos

by SonofMacPhisto @, Monday, January 26, 2015, 14:38 (3381 days ago) @ Leviathan

I've never seen playing other games as somehow a slight for my love for Bungie games. :)]

That's because we're polygamerous. Yeah, that's a thing now.

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Kudos

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, January 27, 2015, 00:08 (3380 days ago) @ Leviathan

explored some of Kingdoms of Amalur

I REALLY want to get that one. I played the demo and enjoyed it a lot, and it was such a fantastically beautiful thing to look at. But because of what happened to the developer, i don't know if I want to play it - I'm afraid of the heartbreak when it's over and I realize the planned sequels are never going to happen.

I always enjoy playing an RPG and an FPS alternately for a few months, allowing me to go slow or fast dependent upon my mood. It also usually allows me to enjoy both fantasy and sci-fi settings without getting too much of one for too long of time.

Totally get this. I bounce between Destiny and Skyrim at the moment.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, January 26, 2015, 10:30 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I enjoy the Missives given by the Bounty Tracker for the exotics, so if these could be taken to the next level, woven into a story or a set of missions with some extra/alternate parameters, that would be awesome. I think it would be equally as enjoyable to have clear ways to get the gear you want, so making stepped bounties/stories for them too would be great.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by SonofMacPhisto @, Monday, January 26, 2015, 11:30 (3381 days ago) @ BeardFade

I enjoy the Missives given by the Bounty Tracker for the exotics, so if these could be taken to the next level, woven into a story or a set of missions with some extra/alternate parameters, that would be awesome. I think it would be equally as enjoyable to have clear ways to get the gear you want, so making stepped bounties/stories for them too would be great.

Take a page from Skyrim and the Daedric artifact quests? Dawnbreaker specifically is a perfect example. Unique elements (flying far above Skyrim to parlay with a god), one of the best dungeons, a difficult final boss, and a totally awesome reward (make the undead explode and flee in terror!).

EDIT: oh god can you imagine something like Sanguine's quest in Destiny?

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, January 26, 2015, 11:42 (3381 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

I enjoy the Missives given by the Bounty Tracker for the exotics, so if these could be taken to the next level, woven into a story or a set of missions with some extra/alternate parameters, that would be awesome. I think it would be equally as enjoyable to have clear ways to get the gear you want, so making stepped bounties/stories for them too would be great.


Take a page from Skyrim and the Daedric artifact quests? Dawnbreaker specifically is a perfect example. Unique elements (flying far above Skyrim to parlay with a god), one of the best dungeons, a difficult final boss, and a totally awesome reward (make the undead explode and flee in terror!).

EDIT: oh god can you imagine something like Sanguine's quest in Destiny?

This is all taking Destiny from the realm of MMO into the realm of RPG, which is where it should have been in the first place because the MMO genre is objectively bad.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, January 26, 2015, 13:32 (3381 days ago) @ Cody Miller


... because the MMO genre is objectively bad.

Jeez. An arrogant and at this point tiresome statement.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, January 26, 2015, 13:41 (3381 days ago) @ Kermit


... because the MMO genre is objectively bad.


Jeez. An arrogant and at this point tiresome statement.

It's been qualified and nobody has been able to refute it:

1. MMOs need people online all the time by definition. To be massively multiplayer.
2. Content takes longer to make than to play.
3. Making frequent content is not financially viable to keep players routinely playing.
4. Therefore, content is stretched out, time gated, or padded with grind, all of which are bad things.
5. MMOs must be riddled with bad things, therefore the genre is bad.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, January 26, 2015, 14:13 (3381 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It's been qualified and nobody has been able to refute it:

1. MMOs need people online all the time by definition. To be massively multiplayer.

Can't argue against the name of the genre, but there are several MMOs which can still be enjoyed solo.

2. Content takes longer to make than to play.

That's true with most, if not all, games.

3. Making frequent content is not financially viable to keep players routinely playing.

But if the same developers making a whole new game out of the blue is financially viable, your statement is inherently flawed.

4. Therefore, content is stretched out, time gated, or padded with grind, all of which are bad things.

That is usually true in MMOs, I'll grant you that. I still hope some out-of-the-box developers will eventually do one that circumvents those.

5. MMOs must be riddled with bad things, therefore the genre is bad.

So, in essence, my main point is that the word "must" in there might be stretching it.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by SonofMacPhisto @, Monday, January 26, 2015, 14:36 (3381 days ago) @ ZackDark

It's been qualified and nobody has been able to refute it:

1. MMOs need people online all the time by definition. To be massively multiplayer.


Can't argue against the name of the genre, but there are several MMOs which can still be enjoyed solo.

2. Content takes longer to make than to play.


That's true with most, if not all, games.

But with MMOs, their sheer scale demands a level of content generation not currently possible.

3. Making frequent content is not financially viable to keep players routinely playing.


But if the same developers making a whole new game out of the blue is financially viable, your statement is inherently flawed.

A theoretical state doesn't really help here, I think. Evidence seems to support his statement; there's nothing empirical to disprove it, right?

4. Therefore, content is stretched out, time gated, or padded with grind, all of which are bad things.


That is usually true in MMOs, I'll grant you that. I still hope some out-of-the-box developers will eventually do one that circumvents those.

Eventually eventually eventually. Don't get me wrong, that would be awesome, but guessing we'll see a lot of crap until then.

5. MMOs must be riddled with bad things, therefore the genre is bad.


So, in essence, my main point is that the word "must" in there might be stretching it.

We can imagine exceptions to "must" all day long, but what real examples are there? I dunno, man. MMOs are rough.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, January 26, 2015, 15:25 (3381 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

That's true with most, if not all, games.


But with MMOs, their sheer scale demands a level of content generation not currently possible.

3. Making frequent content is not financially viable to keep players routinely playing.


But if the same developers making a whole new game out of the blue is financially viable, your statement is inherently flawed.


A theoretical state doesn't really help here, I think. Evidence seems to support his statement; there's nothing empirical to disprove it, right?

You see, I was trying to argue that making new content for a game and making a brand new game are very similar in nature. In fact, it is of my opinion that making new content for an existing game is actually cheaper than making a new game most of the times.

I was arguing that, if it is financially viable for a company to continuously put out games like CoD on an yearly basis, it is not a stretch to think it would be financially viable to put out new content on an existing game (that has hooks for it, of course) on a bi-monthly basis. I am of the opinion that this argument undermines Cody's statement.

Eventually eventually eventually. Don't get me wrong, that would be awesome, but guessing we'll see a lot of crap until then.

Yeah, me too. :(
Doesn't mean I'll automatically bash at a game just because it is defined as a MMO, though.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, January 26, 2015, 15:49 (3381 days ago) @ ZackDark

I was arguing that, if it is financially viable for a company to continuously put out games like CoD on an yearly basis, it is not a stretch to think it would be financially viable to put out new content on an existing game (that has hooks for it, of course) on a bi-monthly basis. I am of the opinion that this argument undermines Cody's statement.

CoD sells 15 million units at 60 dollars each. Do the math.

DLC sells for less and in smaller numbers.

Plus, you are overlooking the notion of 'critical mass' where you have to have a large amount of well integrated and connected content for it to be worthwhile and more than the sum of the parts. Another reason why small DLC releases aren't as good creatively.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, January 27, 2015, 06:15 (3380 days ago) @ ZackDark

That's true with most, if not all, games.


But with MMOs, their sheer scale demands a level of content generation not currently possible.

3. Making frequent content is not financially viable to keep players routinely playing.


But if the same developers making a whole new game out of the blue is financially viable, your statement is inherently flawed.


A theoretical state doesn't really help here, I think. Evidence seems to support his statement; there's nothing empirical to disprove it, right?


You see, I was trying to argue that making new content for a game and making a brand new game are very similar in nature. In fact, it is of my opinion that making new content for an existing game is actually cheaper than making a new game most of the times.

I was arguing that, if it is financially viable for a company to continuously put out games like CoD on an yearly basis, it is not a stretch to think it would be financially viable to put out new content on an existing game (that has hooks for it, of course) on a bi-monthly basis. I am of the opinion that this argument undermines Cody's statement.

Like Cody kinda already said, CoD is a unique beast with resources unavailable to most. If an MMO could do those kind of numbers, maybe we'd get the game we want. Maybe not.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, January 26, 2015, 15:22 (3381 days ago) @ Cody Miller


... because the MMO genre is objectively bad.


Jeez. An arrogant and at this point tiresome statement.


It's been qualified and nobody has been able to refute it:

2. Content takes longer to make than to play.
3. Making frequent content is not financially viable to keep players routinely playing.

A MMO does not have to operate soley or perhaps even mostly on content generated by the parent company. The whole point of being massively multiplayer is that you can play with and against creative, unpredictable humans. In my favorite MMOs it is player actions that drive continued player interest with pregenerated content either being a minor part of the game or being completely nonexistent.

Examples:
- In Urban Dead, a human survivor / zombie attacker web game there is no ongoing story or similar content. It is all player vs player. Despite this thousands of players group together to coordinate the assault or defense of key sectors and structures within the doomed city the game takes place in. They have done so for several years with security patrols and recon and well planned, multistage attacks and defenses keeping people coming back for. The Seige of Craiger Mall, an entirely player generated battle where new innovative strategies were employed by both sides, is still legendary many years later.

- In Cyber Nations the basic gameplay of collecting taxes to grow your nation to buy more a powerful military so you can defeat an enemy who is trying to do the same has remained largely unchanged for nearly a decade. The game has zero story and instead runs on player generated treaties, provocations, off site spying, complex economic rebuild plans, and years old grudges. There is no outpacing of the developer generated content here either.

- The spiritual precursor to Cyber Narions was a game called Nation States that had as much or more player generated intrigue but had no grind. Your nation simply grew over time but its size did not matter. There was no military to build or money to manage. Instead battles were based on coordinating the mass unrestrictable movement of players from one alliance to another in order to field enough votes to gain control of that alliance. No grind. No content to run out of.

- In EVE Online there is a thin layer of story but the real draw is the complex functioning economy, the conflicts of player alliances, and the challenge of combined arms warfare with different players playing vastly different roles within even a small fleet. The game has changed much more than the others over its life and certainly people have completed each new piece of the ongoing storylines but I doubt people keep paying for the small amount of story content. Again it's the massively multiplayer part along with the game world that are themselves the draw.

4. Therefore, content is stretched out, time gated, or padded with grind, all of which are bad things.

And if a MMO doesn't run on content updates or new raids or any of that? Also your insistence that grind itself is bad is highly suspect. It was the gameplay mechanics of money earning and resource trades and obtaining a military and rebuilding after a defeat that drew thousands of players from Nation States to Cyber Nations.

5. MMOs must be riddled with bad things, therefore the genre is bad.

No. MMOs can be nearly any shape and size. Grind can be an integral part of the game, can't have a functioning economy without limits on supply and demand for instance, or it can even simply not exist.

Therefore...?

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, January 27, 2015, 00:17 (3380 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

Take a page from Skyrim and the Daedric artifact quests? Dawnbreaker specifically is a perfect example. Unique elements (flying far above Skyrim to parlay with a god), one of the best dungeons, a difficult final boss, and a totally awesome reward (make the undead explode and flee in terror!).

<3 Dawnbreaker. It was actually the first Daedric artifact I happened across in Skyrim and that whole experience really drew me in. It's one of my favorite things in that game and I feel like it's under-appreciated. My character doesn't use swords, but I keep Dawnbreaker on my companion because I think it looks cool.

Also, once I really get into the meat of Dawnguard I feel like it's going to become the best ally I could have.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, January 27, 2015, 06:19 (3380 days ago) @ stabbim

Also, once I really get into the meat of Dawnguard I feel like it's going to become the best ally I could have.

Have you played it before? No spoilers... but yes. Yes. Dawnbreaker all day erry day. By the end, it's Torgue-tastic.

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I like your Exotic/Gear idea

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, January 27, 2015, 12:01 (3380 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

I haven't (this is still my first time through everything), but I've heard something about a final battle involving a lot of vampires in close proximity. :)

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Why I Am Done With Destiny

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Monday, January 26, 2015, 13:26 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Goodbye.

Since both of the things wou want are exotic, you should keep an eye on the Xûr thread.

Why I Am Done With Destiny

by Fuertisimo, Monday, January 26, 2015, 13:36 (3381 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I applaud your commitment to not playing after you say you're done playing.

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Allright...Well, See You In March.

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Tuesday, January 27, 2015, 14:44 (3380 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I'm really hoping House of Wolves is released in March.

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