Heh. Patterns change...

Was looking at my record on B.net... my primary weapons stats are pretty surprising.

At the end of December (4 months in from Destiny's launch), my crucible kills with primary weapons:

Pulse Rifles: 109
Hand Cannons: 67
Scout Rifles: 26
Auto Rifles: 7

(No, I hadn't played a lot of Crucible at that point. But what I did play was dominated by specials, heavies, and supers.) To round out the kills:

Rocket Launchers: 461
Shotguns: 287
Sniper Rifles: 254
Supers: 242
Grenades: 136
Melees: 127

All primary weapons, combined, as a percentage of total kills: 12.1%

For the month of January, my crucible kills:

Hand Cannons: 1569
Rocket Launchers: 723
Supers: 493
Grenades: 263
Melees: 246
Sniper Rifles: 234
Shotguns: 89
Machine Guns: 6
Fusion Rifles: 1

Hand cannons (which comprise all my primary weapons), as a percentage of total kills: 43.3%

(February's starting off even stronger, hand-cannon-wise: 55.5% of total kills as of last night.)

What happened? Xur sold the Last Word on January 9. :)

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Hand cannons (which comprise all my primary weapons), as a percentage of total kills: 43.3%

(February's starting off even stronger, hand-cannon-wise: 55.5% of total kills as of last night.)

What happened? Xur sold the Last Word on January 9. :)

I was having a very similar experience - struggling to find a primary, and failing. I had a tough time with Scouts and Pulse Rifles, and had settled on ARs...albeit tentatively. I could not shake the feeling like I was not understanding something.

And then, randomly, I tried The Devil You Know (Legendary Hand Cannon) and everything clicked.

I don't know if that means Hand Cannons are that superior, or if they fit my play style, or if I figured game-play out. Probably all three.

Regarding TLW...how is it's fire rate? Is the projectile speed weird? Some videos make it seem odd, somehow.

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Regarding TLW...how is it's fire rate? Is the projectile speed weird? Some videos make it seem odd, somehow.

It's a full auto sniper rifle. With perfect balance you will tear people apart. Syphax had a pretty good vid on best PvP weapons you can check out if you can put up with his ferocious and all consuming rage.

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I don't know if that means Hand Cannons are that superior, or if they fit my play style, or if I figured game-play out. Probably all three.

Unlikely on the superior weapon. They are all balanced pretty well, with each class having some "high performance" options.

All Hawkmoons are pistols, but not all pistols are Hawkmoons, if that makes sense.

Personally it is pretty hard to pull me away from scout rifles and shotguns, but I was recently gifted a "Red Hand IX" and I'm having fun with it, for a Hand Cannon. At the same time, I've yet to experience a Scout Rifle with Firefly\explosive rounds, so when I do, I'll get to fall in love all over again, I'm sure...

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Unlikely on the superior weapon. They are all balanced pretty well, with each class having some "high performance" options.

Even for Normal hand cannons, if you are good they are objectively better for mobs in PvE than autorifles.

Think about it this way: hand cannons do all their damage in huge chunks, rather than spread out over time like ARs. When you land the first shot, the enemy is dead with a hand canon, but not with an AR. Even if they have similar DPS, the hand cannon is better because a dead enemy isn't doing damage to you or your fire team. This makes encounters much much easier since you are being shot less.

Say for argument's sake that a particular hand cannon shoots 1 time every 3 seconds and does 100 damage on cric. The autorifle shoots once a second, and does 33 damage on crit. Enemies have 100 health. Same DPS.

But after 1 second, the enemy is dead with the hand cannon. It takes 3 seconds to kill an enemy with the auto rifle. So that's 2 seconds where you aren't getting shot. So even though in both cases you can;t start shooting enemy 2 until second 4, you get the kill quicker with the hand cannon, and end up better off.

This is conversely why low impact high rate of fire hand cannons are bad; since they increase the time to kill even though they may do more DPS overall.

Hand cannons are less susceptible to depreciation because of attack rating, because of their potential for overkill. It's why fatebringer is still the best PvE hand cannon despite being 300 attack. A good hand cannon will last you a long time.

This is of course provided you can land critical hits consistently.

In PvP this is different because critical hit are not one shot kills, but hand cannons are still extremely good in terms of time to kill. I use TDYK because of the insane range and stability. It's like having a higher powered scout rifle.

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Some enemies take a lot less than a full hand cannon shot to die, so same DPS auto rifles would obviously be a lot more efficient. It would demand less reloads for the same group of enemies, thus less wasted time.

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Some enemies take a lot less than a full hand cannon shot to die, so same DPS auto rifles would obviously be a lot more efficient. It would demand less reloads for the same group of enemies, thus less wasted time.

That's a very good point, although Explosive Crit Hits (with a weapon like Fatebringer) negate that somewhat. Against crowds of weaker enemies (like Thrawl) you can kill 4-5 enemies with each trigger pull.

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Agreed. Bad Juju with armor piercing rounds and autofill clip on kills wrecks small targets like thralls. But each weapon and class has its niche.

I find that in PvP I'm best with auto rifles because when I have pull the trigger between shots with other weapons it reduces my accuracy. But I also find that the high impact auto rifles with slower fire work best which is why I'm still rocking shadow price and waiting on suros regime.

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Agreed. Bad Juju with armor piercing rounds and autofill clip on kills wrecks small targets like thralls. But each weapon and class has its niche.

I find that in PvP I'm best with auto rifles because when I have pull the trigger between shots with other weapons it reduces my accuracy. But I also find that the high impact auto rifles with slower fire work best which is why I'm still rocking shadow price and waiting on suros regime.

It's neat how different people play differently. I'm less accurate with auto rifles because I use the time between trigger pulls on the other gun types to aim. It's not quite as bad as aim-shot-aim-shot-aim, I'm a lot more fluid than that of course, but it kinda feels like I pull down the trigger on something like Hard Light and I have to remind myself to stay on target well before I get a kill.

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Agreed. Bad Juju with armor piercing rounds and autofill clip on kills wrecks small targets like thralls. But each weapon and class has its niche.

I find that in PvP I'm best with auto rifles because when I have pull the trigger between shots with other weapons it reduces my accuracy. But I also find that the high impact auto rifles with slower fire work best which is why I'm still rocking shadow price and waiting on suros regime.

It's neat how different people play differently. I'm less accurate with auto rifles because I use the time between trigger pulls on the other gun types to aim. It's not quite as bad as aim-shot-aim-shot-aim, I'm a lot more fluid than that of course, but it kinda feels like I pull down the trigger on something like Hard Light and I have to remind myself to stay on target well before I get a kill.

A Vanquisher will feel very different from a Hard Light. There are plenty of Blue AR's with focus fire that are just a higher RoF, automatic scout rifle.

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Agreed. Bad Juju with armor piercing rounds and autofill clip on kills wrecks small targets like thralls. But each weapon and class has its niche.

I find that in PvP I'm best with auto rifles because when I have pull the trigger between shots with other weapons it reduces my accuracy. But I also find that the high impact auto rifles with slower fire work best which is why I'm still rocking shadow price and waiting on suros regime.

It's neat how different people play differently. I'm less accurate with auto rifles because I use the time between trigger pulls on the other gun types to aim. It's not quite as bad as aim-shot-aim-shot-aim, I'm a lot more fluid than that of course, but it kinda feels like I pull down the trigger on something like Hard Light and I have to remind myself to stay on target well before I get a kill.

A Vanquisher will feel very different from a Hard Light. There are plenty of Blue AR's with focus fire that are just a higher RoF, automatic scout rifle.

Or, for a Scout Rifle that feels strangely close to an AR, try B-Line Trauma.

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Love mine, especially with third eye. Great crucible weapon. Lil' Blue has one with explosive rounds and firefly. It's a beast.

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I have one like lil' Blue's, with Firefly and Explosive Rounds, but it feels too weak sometimes. The high RoF takes the impact out of Scout Rifle too damn much. Much rather have my Up for Anything, that has slight higher RoF but feels punchier.

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It's neat how different people play differently. I'm less accurate with auto rifles because I use the time between trigger pulls on the other gun types to aim. It's not quite as bad as aim-shot-aim-shot-aim, I'm a lot more fluid than that of course, but it kinda feels like I pull down the trigger on something like Hard Light and I have to remind myself to stay on target well before I get a kill.

I agree. I've played Destiny and other games with a friend of mine and we have completely different play styles. In Destiny, I almost always rock the AR and Shotgun (yes, I'm a titan) and he would marry a hand cannon if he could. We both use Scout rifles.

However, he keeps telling me to use a hand cannon in PvP, but every time I do I just get wrecked. I just don't have the composure to use a hand cannon in PvP. Which is the other reason why I rarely use snipers.

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I don't know if that means Hand Cannons are that superior, or if they fit my play style, or if I figured game-play out. Probably all three.

Unlikely on the superior weapon. They are all balanced pretty well, with each class having some "high performance" options.

All Hawkmoons are pistols, but not all pistols are Hawkmoons, if that makes sense.

Personally it is pretty hard to pull me away from scout rifles and shotguns, but I was recently gifted a "Red Hand IX" and I'm having fun with it, for a Hand Cannon. At the same time, I've yet to experience a Scout Rifle with Firefly\explosive rounds, so when I do, I'll get to fall in love all over again, I'm sure...

I rolled a Badger CCL with both.

She is glorious.

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I was having a very similar experience - struggling to find a primary, and failing. I had a tough time with Scouts and Pulse Rifles, and had settled on ARs...albeit tentatively. I could not shake the feeling like I was not understanding something.

And then, randomly, I tried The Devil You Know (Legendary Hand Cannon) and everything clicked.

I don't know if that means Hand Cannons are that superior, or if they fit my play style, or if I figured game-play out. Probably all three.

The ARs just didn't move me at all. I loved the DMR in Halo: Reach, but somehow the scout rifle didn't feel right for me. I then moved to pulse rifles, and that... Well, it was better, but it wasn't me. I just wasn't feeling it, you know?

Then I got my mitts on The Devil You Don't. The perks are a little different than what seems to be standard for that weapon, but it just clicked for me. I'm a Hand Cannon guy from here on out. It fits my cautious playstyle perfectly when in PVE. I'm cautious, and I frequently weave to line up a shot (a holdover from when I was learning to shoot a rifle). Unless it's a strike, almost every shot is a critical with Hand Canons, and the sight works for me. (Then again, IRL I can only use iron sights for some odd reason. Everything else I just suck at.)

Play style counts for a LOT, especially when you can customize your weapons.

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You can't use Red Dots and Scopes in real life? WTH?

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With iron sights, I can do five in a dime. When I use scopes, I'm doing five in a quarter. With red dot, my accuracy goes down even further. The guy who was letting me use his red dot sights couldn't believe it, so we spent a week shooting every day -- no real improvement, no matter which eye I use.

Well, probably not any more. I haven't shot anything other than a pistol in a long time, so I'm probably pretty rusty these days. And usually I don't use sights on pistols, so that isn't a good indicator either.

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- No text -

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I was having a very similar experience - struggling to find a primary, and failing. I had a tough time with Scouts and Pulse Rifles, and had settled on ARs...albeit tentatively. I could not shake the feeling like I was not understanding something.

And then, randomly, I tried The Devil You Know (Legendary Hand Cannon) and everything clicked.

I don't know if that means Hand Cannons are that superior, or if they fit my play style, or if I figured game-play out. Probably all three.

Yeah, since the AR nerf Hand Cannons and Scout Rifles are pretty much the best primary weapons.

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I still feel to this day like I haven't found a PvP weapon that really suits me. I've got Thorn and The Last Word, but I don't do particularly well with either of them. I did have a lot of fun using Monte Carlo a few days ago, but I could have just been having a good night. I'll have to experiment with it more.

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I still feel to this day like I haven't found a PvP weapon that really suits me. I've got Thorn and The Last Word, but I don't do particularly well with either of them. I did have a lot of fun using Monte Carlo a few days ago, but I could have just been having a good night. I'll have to experiment with it more.

For a long time, the only weapons I was effective with were Fusion Rifles; literally anything else meant a negative k/d and a lot of frustration. I only recently started branching out into other weapon classes again; I'm not sure if it's a better understanding of the meta, or if I'm just better now, but my best games these days are with Last Word, and Thorn is close behind.

Class might have something to do with it; I never played hunter until recently, and I seem to play better with hand cannons on hunter (the subclass abilities may have something to do with that). My playstyle changes have mostly come from boredom: I understand AR's and FR's, and now I'm trying to understand HC's and Snipers. I think mastery of a particular loadout is nice, but I generally have more fun with loadouts and weapons I'm less familiar with.

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In PvE I'm all Fatebringer (and Word of Crota) all the time. The Chance is nice too.

But in PvP I just cant kill stuff with a handcannon. Ive tried all shapes and sizes, even TLW, which is basically an AR. I just can't seem to keep my K/D over 1.0 unless I'm using an Auto Rifle.

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In PvE I'm all Fatebringer (and Word of Crota) all the time. The Chance is nice too.

But in PvP I just cant kill stuff with a handcannon. Ive tried all shapes and sizes, even TLW, which is basically an AR. I just can't seem to keep my K/D over 1.0 unless I'm using an Auto Rifle.

Heh - and if I use an Auto Rifle, I can't keep my K/D over 0.5 :)

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Like Shingen or the even slower one?

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Like Shingen or the even slower one?

I dunno. I tried Atheon's Epilogue, got nowhere. Was told that's because it had no impact. Tried what I thought was the other end of the spectrum (Suros Regime), got nowhere. Didn't really continue to try.

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Tried what I thought was the other end of the spectrum (Suros Regime), got nowhere. Didn't really continue to try.

The Suros Regime works best for me when I use it more like a high-RoF scout rifle than an auto rifle. When aiming down sights, I can fire faster pulling the trigger for each round than if I just let it go full auto. Also, for some reason, when I hold down the trigger and just start spraying bullets, my brain just shuts off and I stop worrying about head shots. Every trigger pull, no matter how fast I'm going, seems to help me refocus.

Not that I'm trying to lure you away from hand cannons or anything. I'd use them if I could, but my thumbs tend to spaz out when I know I need to make every shot count. It's why I'm also garbage with a sniper rifle :p

-Disciple

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Not that I'm trying to lure you away from hand cannons or anything. I'd use them if I could, but my thumbs tend to spaz out when I know I need to make every shot count. It's why I'm also garbage with a sniper rifle :p

I feel exactly the same. I can consistently full headshot sprays out of my Up for Anything, but can't, in any circumstance, get more than a single (if that) headshot out of a hand cannon/sniper rifle.

Just got a Vanquisher VIII out of a Nightfall that I plan on trying out on banana's Crucible DBO vs DBO. It is the first Auto Rifle of that class of RoF/Impact that I ever got. It has Cascade (melee kills speed up reload), which should help me out on CQB, and Crowd Control (kills grant bonus damage), which should help me in more frantic times. Field Scout will also do nicely, I think. :)

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Not that I'm trying to lure you away from hand cannons or anything. I'd use them if I could, but my thumbs tend to spaz out when I know I need to make every shot count. It's why I'm also garbage with a sniper rifle :p

I feel exactly the same. I can consistently full headshot sprays out of my Up for Anything, but can't, in any circumstance, get more than a single (if that) headshot out of a hand cannon/sniper rifle.

Just got a Vanquisher VIII out of a Nightfall that I plan on trying out on banana's Crucible DBO vs DBO. It is the first Auto Rifle of that class of RoF/Impact that I ever got. It has Cascade (melee kills speed up reload), which should help me out on CQB, and Crowd Control (kills grant bonus damage), which should help me in more frantic times. Field Scout will also do nicely, I think. :)

I have a Vanquisher as well, and field scout makes that puppy into beast.

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Like Shingen or the even slower one?

I dunno. I tried Atheon's Epilogue, got nowhere. Was told that's because it had no impact. Tried what I thought was the other end of the spectrum (Suros Regime), got nowhere. Didn't really continue to try.

Stay away from low impact high rate of fire autorifles at all costs. They suck. Period. Full stop.

You want something hard hitting and stable. Surros is good, and I don't know what perks you had unlocked for it. Vanquisher VIII is very good as well.

Keep in mind though that autorifles ARE outclassed by hand canons and scout rifles in both PvP and PvE, at least in my opinion. The only time I really use autorifles is Hard Light during the Abyss.

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Like Shingen or the even slower one?

I dunno. I tried Atheon's Epilogue, got nowhere. Was told that's because it had no impact. Tried what I thought was the other end of the spectrum (Suros Regime), got nowhere. Didn't really continue to try.

Stay away from low impact high rate of fire autorifles at all costs. They suck. Period. Full stop.

You want something hard hitting and stable. Surros is good, and I don't know what perks you had unlocked for it. Vanquisher VIII is very good as well.

Never gotten a Vanquisher III - but the Suros is maxed. I had it set with Field Choke (more range and impact) and Hammer Forged (improved range and accuracy).

Keep in mind though that autorifles ARE outclassed by hand canons and scout rifles in both PvP and PvE, at least in my opinion. The only time I really use autorifles is Hard Light during the Abyss.

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Never gotten a Vanquisher III

You can buy it from New Monarchy.

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