I remember wanting to use a shotgun occasionally in halo. That may back up the theory that it's because the enemies behaved in a different way. It's true that for light switch I fear melee much more than I did in halo. But I also feel like it has to do with the shotguns power. If a shotgun was almost always a one hit kill but I had to be much more conscious of my available ammo and my distance from a forced reload than with other weapons. that would balance it out enough. So, basically I agree but I'm not as hopeless about the chances of changing it. Maybe this is why we have seen lightswitch used less over the past few weeks.

You're right if we're talking about planned offense. But unplanned defense it would be nice to pull out a shotty and you know, have it do something. As it stands pulling out a shotty in close quarters combat is rarely a good idea. You'd be better off with a good fusion rifle or point blank sniper because at least those are likely to stun the guy.

For example, how many people use a shotgun in the first section of Crota? Anyone? Thrall are literally up in your face and no one uses a shotgun...

I don't agree with the first range nerf, and I sure as hell don't agree with this one.

I cant wait for my warlock to have longer melee range than most shotguns

From Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2uzahr/bungie_doesnt_get_why_shotguns_will_never_be_good/

Basically, the argument is that high-level combat in Destiny is designed in a way that makes close-quarters fighting virtually impossible. Enemies during raids/nightfalls do too much damage to risk going near them. Most bosses have some kind of stomp/area attack that makes it extremely risky to approach them.

So, PVE is only nightfalls, raids, and boss battles? News to me.

Still, up to now I have also rarely used shotguns, but I will be leveling up Swordbreaker in preparation for the new patch.

I think the problem is that shotguns don't do enough damage compared to what bosses do for them to be an option in those encounters, and where they might be useful, such as against rushing Thrall, ammo constraints make them less useful than autorifles.

Some of the most fun I've had while on patrol was when I ran universal remote + found verdict. That's the only time I've felt like they are a viable option.

It's not true that high damage is a problem in itself. Unavoiable high damage is a problem.

Range+cover obviously allows you to avoid the damage. Always, every time. It's basically a rule of FPS. But getting in close in Destiny often has some or all of these problems:

• Your target's attacks are unavoidable (Ultras' aforementioned AOE)
  
• Your target has friends who's attacks cannot be avoided / your target can't be isolated
  
• They're too mobile/hard to shotgun - like Hive Wizards
  
• (minor) You don't have right type of/any shotguns because you have too many Special weapons already.

In the remaining situations where a shotgun would be viable and effective, longer-range weaponry is also effective, but safer and easier to execute. A Fallen Captain for example: you can get in close to an individual, avoid their shots AND melee attacks, but they often don't take cover, so sniping wins.

Contrast to Halo LASO:

• Getting in closer was necessary since there were no anti-shield long-range weapons
  
• Elites took cover when their shields were down
  
• Melee had other benefits like ammo conservation, insta-kill back-smacks and shield-regen
  
• Hunters' weak point was in their back

Despite some reports to the contrary, the AI in Destiny IS NOT dumb: I remember in one mission, standing on some pillars, and watching the Hive Thralls scatter out of view. They understand line of sight! That's SMART! I had to come down and engage them on their level.

The problem is that the AI's capabilities aren't used often enough, effectively enough, to make a more diverse range of strategies more appealing and/or optimal.

There are class-specific options that help with close-quarters but it's like you have to build the entire class around it, whereas a sniper is effective in the same way, out of the box, for every class.

Here's a few ideas I came up with today:

Close-Encounter Environment Design - there are a few too many wide open plains. We need more close-combat areas with cover you can go between. That allows you to get in around, amongst and up in the faces of enemies.

Enemies that take cover - Take captains - why not make them a little more hidey?

More bait-able Enemies - If I could get a Hive Knight to follow me, to separate them from enemies, at a close distance, that'd make shotgunning more viable. The health-regen-shield is practically begging for all-damage-done-at-once kills, but it's hard to go in close because they have back-up.
What if they got health back in a lump at the end of their shield, rather than in pieces: so if you could get around their shields you could kill them before they actually got any health back from the shield?

Weak-points on sides and backs - So you do a wicked side-step of that Cabal Phalanx, you're behind them, and now their head is away from you - ugh, reduced damage! A weaker area on their back would help.
Or a tough Vex enemy with their 'juice-box' on their back would be good too.
Perhaps a boss who only exposes their weak-point after a melee attack? (Boss design is a whole other thing but yeah...)

More interesting shotguns/perks - Compared to Game Breaker and Infinite Hammer, everything shotgun-wise totally sucks. How about shogtuns with:
Punch Action - When equipped, melee kills have a chance to generate ammo to your reserve/directly to the magazine.
Stick/Fist Combo - Damage from this weapon temporarily increases the target's susceptibility to melee attacks (an obvious synergy, surely?)
Bunny-Shotter - This weapon reloads faster while you are airborne (imagine taking out a few Thrall, then jumping over them and reloading. I think it'd be funny :)
Backshot Shells - Does extra damage when firing into the back of an opponent

It's also ridiculous that I can switch to Ice Breaker, let it charge up, switch to Invective, and have more ammo than if I'd been wandering around with Invective!

Different aspect pairings/shotgun types - Right now, High Impact always seems paired with High Range (e.g. Found Verdict). Maybe that's wrong and a source of the PvP problems? Perhaps instead: more range should mean less impact. What about a shotgun that can take on a group of Thrall (larger mag, lower impact, greater range) and one for majors/shielded enemies (high impact, low range, low ROF, good staggering ability).

So, there should be a need to get close, a way to avoid getting blasted to pieces, and it actually needs to take down the target - otherwise snipers will probably remain king.

That said, double damage shotguns might still be worth screwing around with ;)

EDIT: This post evolved a lot as I was writing it. The Halo LASO comparison initially had more of a point. It's an example where the high risk of close-combat is actually effectively offset by a high reward, where skill mitigates the risk, and the rest of the sandbox isn't completely dominant. More could be said about that comparison but it's late now.

Two is better than one

This was actually the first thought that I had as soon as I read that paragraph (although I don't feel like Bungie doesn't "get" it).

There are a few differences between PvE and PvP that make shotguns good in one and bad in the other.

1) Punishment for Death - In Crucible, death is an acceptable outcome. Sometimes you are just going to die, but you want the percentages to play out in your favor. A single death isn't always a big deal. The shotgun works pretty well for this. However, in PvP, a death can be a terrible setback, and the reward isn't worth the risk.

2) Enemy AI vs. Humans - Human opponents are equally dangerous from every range, and in some cases even more dangerous from further away. Human opponents can be tricked by feints and baiting at close range, while enemy AI tends not to be so complex. Enemy AI usually don't respond effectively to attack from long range: usually they either sit there or possibly ineffectively scatter. It's easy to pick them off, because they aren't waiting for you to pop over that hill like a human would. And enemy snipers are purposefully poor, as previous experience has shown players don't enjoy tackling auto-headshot enemies.

3) Thinking back to the last truly effective Bungie PvE shotgun (Halo 1), that was a really a combination of factors. You had an enemy (The Flood) that was nearly immune to snipers. You had a bunch of corridor/room crawls with said enemy. You had a shotgun with good range and a lot of ammo before needing to reload. And the enemy liked to drop ammo for that weapon.

Shotguns still won't be the weapon of choice in Destiny until we get an enemy like The Flood, and levels like the Library. Given that combination wasn't entirely popular, I 'm guessing it's on purpose. That being said, taking down Praetorians on the VoG with Swordbreaker is pretty satisfying.