Facts about over leveling

Tons of people are still confused about this. Simply being a higher level that the enemy you are fighting yields no benefits. You do not do more damage, nor do you take less damage because of your level.

You take less damage because the VoG armor has a lower defense rating than the Crota armor. It has nothing to do with your level.

locked

1855 views

I know you don't deal more damage, but are you absolutely certain the damaged received isn't changed? It would make sense given that it works that way for enemies when you're underlevelled (though I dont actually know the specifics of why that works the way it does either).

locked

1706 views

I know you don't deal more damage, but are you absolutely certain the damaged received isn't changed?

It's not. The reason why you take less damage at 32 is because your defense value is higher, and that reduces damage. If you could be 30 and 32 with identical defense values, you'd take the same damage.

locked

1766 views

I guess what I was saying is: Do you have a source for that?

Not that I dont believe you. It makes sense, what with high-Light gear also being higher-defense gear. But I like some stats with my facts, if you see what I mean, and that seems like something much harder to prove than damage dealt.

locked

1732 views

As far as I can tell both your Level and your Defense Rating matter.

I tested this by engaging the Level 20 Hive by the Seeder past The Forgotten Shore. In the beta a few of us tried running this gauntlet of doom at level 8 and would be killed in a single shot. Now, wearing the base Warlock Armor brought me down to my base Level 20 with 59 Defense. A single shot from an Acolyte was enough to push my health bar just past the first tick mark... so they were doing roughly 30% damage to me. Since they weren't killing me outright we can conclude that a player's level has a significant effect on the damage they take, even when the Defense Rating does not change.

This would seem to prove Cody wrong.

Swapping to the weakest armor I could buy in the tower kept me at Level 20 but with 325 Defense. Now, it took three hits to bring me down to that first tick mark. Swapping to the best gear I have on my Warlock brought me to Level 28 / 1297 Defense. It now took seven shots to drop my health bar to that first mark. So, while your Level matters, your Defense Rating does too, apparently.

locked

1684 views

Ha, nice use of your starting gear! Wish I'd thought of that.

I have an idea of how to test this for lvl 31 vs 32 (test the difference between varying degrees of lvl 31, then see if the jump to 32 makes the same amount of difference or more) but it will need some setup, so you'll have to bear with me

locked

1643 views

As far as I can tell both your Level and your Defense Rating matter.

I tested this by engaging the Level 20 Hive by the Seeder past The Forgotten Shore. In the beta a few of us tried running this gauntlet of doom at level 8 and would be killed in a single shot. Now, wearing the base Warlock Armor brought me down to my base Level 20 with 59 Defense. A single shot from an Acolyte was enough to push my health bar just past the first tick mark... so they were doing roughly 30% damage to me. Since they weren't killing me outright we can conclude that a player's level has a significant effect on the damage they take, even when the Defense Rating does not change.

This would seem to prove Cody wrong.

No it wouldn't. I'm talking about being higher level than your enemy. You were 8 and it was 20. You will see gains in damage dealt and reduction in damage received until you hit 20. But going to 21 doesn't improve anything.

locked

1701 views

Err, might want to read that again. He was 20 the entire time, at which point Defense did make a difference, but only minor.

I see what you're saying though, because two separate 20+ levels weren't tested.

What level are the Hive underneath the Steppes? Aren't they only 18? Or is that the Knight in the Skywatch? Might be a place to test it, if anyone has a Sub-20 character.

locked

1645 views

Err, might want to read that again. He was 20 the entire time, at which point Defense did make a difference, but only minor.

He said:

At level 8 he got one shotted.
At level 20 he did not.
Enemy was level 20.

locked

1647 views

But the tests being carried out were mostly concerning Defense, which had a fairly minor affect. But fair enough. A misunderstanding.

locked

1615 views

I know for fact he tried it out on a lvl8 Dreg as well (the one that spawns on your right as soon as you enter the Forgotten Shores from the Mothyards) and observed the same thing happening.

However, I agree with you when you say his post, as is, doesn't really prove much against your point.

locked

1656 views

I was leveling up an alt and I was taking a lot of damage, and then I leveled up, and it seemed like I was taking less damage, with no change to my armor. Now, this is sub-20 and anecdotal, but I'd be more inclined to doubt my own experience if you had a source.

locked

1684 views

Also, when you turn up the difficulty on a mission you certainly take more damage because you are under level but if you happen to level up part way though that mission with no changes in armor you'd start taking less damage... I think. Or maybe just leveling up increases your defense as well? I never watched that number too closely...

locked

1668 views

I've always assumed that Destiny's level system works the same way across single player and Crucible. For Iron Banner 2.0 Bungie put up a chart that showed the damage curve based on player level. My guess is PvE works pretty much in the same way. Now, maybe player level is so closely tied to defense rating past level 20 that you're actually right, but as usual you just stomp in here and declare something and expect us to believe you without question.

You aren't that special.

locked

1648 views

...there's no real way to quantifiably measure damage taken, aside from counting pixels.

Each time you upgrade armor it's defense rating would increase, so if you're 31 and upgrade your boots to increase defense slightly but not enough to level to 32, you could theoretically measure this. But there's no real way to measure damage taken on a numeric level, beyond being able to simply survive an attack that had previously killed you.

locked

1658 views

You definitely do take more damage and deal less damage solely based on level. Otherwise us lowly 31's wouldn't be at nearly the disadvantage on crota hard mode -- level wouldn't matter much. Sure gear matters, but your level inherently changes the math that's done for defense on both sides. My warlock was 3 light away from 32 last time I tried hard mode and I was still getting 3-shot by acolytes at the bridge area.

This is an old, but good, explanation on how dealing damage works, including level for both the player and the enemies you fight.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2ja75b/damage_and_attack_and_why_you_should_upgrade_your/

locked

1646 views

- No text -

locked

1622 views

Atleast, it was shown that it's not accurate in terms of how weapon upgrading works. But I cant find the disproving post, so take that with a supersize portion of salt. I can't fairly ask Cody for proof and not provide my own.

Levelling definitely affects the damage you deal if you're underlevelled but once you're overlevelled you no longer deal increasing damage per level - this is why the lvl4s in The Steppes don't die to just a single bullet from a weak AR.

I definitely think being overlevelled affects how you receive damage though, but I'll have to prove that by pixel counting, as Iconicbanana said.

locked

1634 views

Atleast, it was shown that it's not accurate in terms of how weapon upgrading works. But I cant find the disproving post, so take that with a supersize portion of salt. I can't fairly ask Cody for proof and not provide my own.

You can try it yourself.

Play Vault of glass as a level 31 or 32. Now put on armor to make yourself level 30. Shoot an enemy. You will do the same amount of damage. You can keep doing down and not see any reduction in damage, until you are a level below the enemy, in which case you start doing less damage.

locked

1670 views

What, did you just ignore the part of the post where I agreed with you about damage dealt? Seriously, it was a few pixels below the part you quoted. Here, in case you sonehow missed it:

Levelling definitely affects the damage you deal if you're underlevelled but once you're overlevelled you no longer deal increasing damage per level - this is why the lvl4s in The Steppes don't die to just a single bullet from a weak AR.

What were you saying about reading comprehension?

locked

1652 views

What, did you just ignore the part of the post where I agreed with you about damage dealt? Seriously, it was a few pixels below the part you quoted. Here, in case you sonehow missed it:

Levelling definitely affects the damage you deal if you're underlevelled but once you're overlevelled you no longer deal increasing damage per level - this is why the lvl4s in The Steppes don't die to just a single bullet from a weak AR.

What were you saying about reading comprehension?

My statement was a reply with regards to your statement about neither of us having proof. It was not directed at you, but at others in the thread.

locked

1649 views

Hard to tell in context, but I realise words on screen can only do so much, so fair enough.

locked

1593 views

You definitely do take more damage and deal less damage solely based on level. Otherwise us lowly 31's wouldn't be at nearly the disadvantage on crota hard mode -- level wouldn't matter much. Sure gear matters, but your level inherently changes the math that's done for defense on both sides. My warlock was 3 light away from 32 last time I tried hard mode and I was still getting 3-shot by acolytes at the bridge area.

I'M TALKING ABOUT BEING OVERLEVELED! Of course you will do more damage as you level up UNTIL YOU REACH THE ENEMY'S LEVEL.

Crota enemies are LEVEL 33. SO YOU ARE NOT OVER LEVELED.

Jesus, read people, everybody made the same mistake as you did in this thread in that they didn't read.

locked

1667 views

You were being ambiguous. Fault's on you.

Don't condescend when the misunderstanding is your own fault.

Your statement right after "Simply being a higher level that the enemy you are fighting yields no benefits." was a blanket, and it could just as easily have been expanding on the preceding one as it was clarifying. There were better ways to have worded it, and thusly people misread you. Don't be an ass.

locked

1623 views

This is what you said:

Tons of people are still confused about this. Simply being a higher level that the enemy you are fighting yields no benefits. You do not do more damage, nor do you take less damage because of your level.

You take less damage because the VoG armor has a lower defense rating than the Crota armor. It has nothing to do with your level.

I disagree that "simply being a higher level that the enemy you are fighting yields no benefits" is a provably false statement. Possibly in regards to the amount of damage you do, but not as a blanket statement. you then follow this up with "You do not do more damage, nor do you take less damage because of your level". I argued this as well, because enemies get bonus damage on you if you are under-leveled in comparison, regardless of your defense.

You saying "It has nothing to do with your level" just adds fuel to the fire of misunderstanding, apparently what you meant, not what you said.

Way to clarify your statement by attacking people. Yeesh.

locked

1637 views

Let's be crystal clear then:

You stop gaining benefits to damage dealt and damage reduction once you reach the level of the enemy you are fighting. Going over your enemy's level offers no gains compared to when you are equal to their level.

I will post a really simple demonstration of this in an hour or so.

locked

1629 views

- No text -

locked

1515 views

Tons of people are still confused about this. Simply being a higher level that the enemy you are fighting yields no benefits. You do not do more damage, nor do you take less damage because of your level.

You take less damage because the VoG armor has a lower defense rating than the Crota armor. It has nothing to do with your level.

This is true. Your damage output is penalized for being below the enemy's level. But once you equal or surpass an enemy's level, you are no longer subject to the damage penalty. There is no bonus for being over leveled.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2h9t6b/this_is_how_light_levels_affect_your_gameplay_and/

Edit: The Reddit post claims there's no difference in damage received based on level. Cody claims there is, but it's due to Defense, not light level. Neither provide evidence for this claim. If there is a difference in damage received, it'd be very difficult to determine whether Defense or light level causes it. This is because Defense seems strictly tied to light level. The only way to test this would be to have two Guardians with the exact same Defense stat but different levels. Or exact same light level (even partial level) but different defense. But good luck doing that.

locked

1714 views

I'll buy that overleveling doesn't have much effect in and of itself, but that doesn't make Cody right. From what he wrote, I thought he was saying level didn't matter at all. The title didn't really sufficiently clear it up.

If he meant only overleveling was null, then he should have said that, instead of what he did say, which encompassed underleveling, which led to people saying he was wrong, and me being a pedant about it right here. :p

locked

1641 views

The name of his post is "Facts about over leveling"

Then he talks about being "higher" level and the effects of that. Maybe he could have clarified a bit more, but it seemed pretty clear to me that he was only talking about what happens when you are levels above the enemy, not below.

locked

1630 views

If he meant only overleveling was null, then he should have said that

I said exactly that:

"Simply being a higher level that the enemy you are fighting yields no benefits." That's all I was talking about.

locked

1619 views

I have to admit, I don't know where everyone is getting that from.

But at the same time you did a very good job of posting literally zero proof/evidence, or even examples for context.

locked

1639 views

But at the same time you did a very good job of posting literally zero proof/evidence, or even examples for context.

Do it yourself and see. I did.

Get a character that's below max level. Take some damage from an enemy lower level than you. Now level up once but don't change armor. Go take more damage from that same enemy. It's identical.

It's easier to see with weapons: just lower your level and as long as you don't go below the enemy level, you will do the same amount of damage.

locked

1644 views

Do it yourself and see. I did.

That's rather missing the point. You might be right. I've said as much multiple times. But if you want to state facts, please provide some evidence, or at least an easily repeatable anecdote/example. You can't just expect people to take your word for it when you provide so little information. "Do it yourself" is hardly compelling - the onus is on you as the theorist to convince us.

locked

1639 views

I have to admit, I don't know where everyone is getting that from.

It's because of "You do not do more damage, nor do you take less damage because of your level." being a blanket statement, which could be interpreted as not being limited to just overleveling, even though the previous statements were concerning that.

It was one not-so-well-written statement that led to basically all the misunderstanding, here.

locked

1620 views

I ran through the first level, where all the enemies are level 1. You level up to level 2 near the end, and so outlevel the enemies by one. All gear, including armor and weapons were the same.

Attacking a level 1 Dreg at level 1 does 44 damage.

Attacking a level 1 Dreg at level 2 does 44 damage.

Attacking a level 1 Vandal at level 1 does 44 damage.

Attacking a level 1 Vandal at level 2 does 44 damage.

Conclusion: no damage boost to being over leveled.

Being hit by a level 1 Dreg at level 1 damages you just below the first tick.

Being hit by a level 1 Dreg at level 2 damages you just below the first tick.

Being hit by a level 1 Vandal at level 1 damages you a little more below the first tick.

Being hit by a level 1 Vandal at level 2 also damages you a little more below the first tick.

Conclusion: no damage reduction to being over leveled. (Flip between tabs - the damage is identical)

Again, the only reason why being a higher level than your enemy seems to cause you to take less damage is because the Crota armor has a higher defense stat than the VoG or Vendor armor, and defense reduces damage received.

Being over leveled yields no benefit of any kind simply on the basis of your level.

locked

1716 views

Perhaps your test from level 1 to level 2 doesn't show anything because it's too small to see. Ragashingo tried wearing the same armor at level 1 and level 20, and took hits from the same level 20 enemies. Died at level 1 and survived at level 20:::

"As far as I can tell both your Level and your Defense Rating matter.

This would seem to prove Cody wrong."

locked

1615 views

Since they're lvl20 enemies, being level 8 does not constitute overleveling, at all.

However, I'd like to see a test comparing players with over 10 levels of difference. A single level is far too little to be considered representative proof.

locked

1575 views

Since they're lvl20 enemies, being level 8 does not constitute overleveling, at all.

However, I'd like to see a test comparing players with over 10 levels of difference. A single level is far too little to be considered representative proof.

Well, save your starting armor and test it out on the level 2 enemies in the steppes at level 2, then again at level 12. You'll get the same result.

locked

1632 views

Been meaning to start out a second Warlock anyway.

locked

1583 views

- No text -

locked

1518 views

I'll just have to remember to save a clip when at lvl 3 and Vault up the armor. Later on, take the armor off the Vault with my old Warlock and fight the same enemies with it. Record a clip, compare, upload comparison somewhere, forever deny Cody was right if it turns out he was.

Simple.

locked

1562 views

Make sure the talent upgrades for Toughness in your subclass menu stay consistent. I recommend just swapping to your second subclass for the tests, assuming you're leveling just one up first.

locked

1574 views

Forgot about those... Good call on the subclass swap.

locked

1551 views

I tested this by engaging the Level 20 Hive by the Seeder past The Forgotten Shore. In the beta a few of us tried running this gauntlet of doom at level 8 and would be killed in a single shot. Now, wearing the base Warlock Armor brought me down to my base Level 20 with 59 Defense. A single shot from an Acolyte was enough to push my health bar just past the first tick mark... so they were doing roughly 30% damage to me. Since they weren't killing me outright we can conclude that a player's level has a significant effect on the damage they take, even when the Defense Rating does not change.

This would seem to prove Cody wrong."

No it doesn't. Is 8 greater than or equal to 20? No. Math dude.

If you are UNDER LEVELED YOU WILL GET MURDERED, as evidenced by what you just wrote.

I am talking about being an equal or higher level than your enemy, in which case additional levels over the enemy level matters zilch.

locked

1642 views

Thanks for this, I'll shut up about the burden of proof now. Just waiting on the results of ZackDark's tests, but #codywas(probably)right

locked

1542 views

Back to the forum index

RSS Feed of thread

DBO Forums

Facts about over leveling (Destiny)