I have hit rank 5 with Iron Banner!

Time to grind 23000 glimmer to buy those guns.

Seriously, who thought this was a good idea? "Let's have a PvP event, but make the rewards so expensive that you have to mindlessly farm glimmer in PvE for HOURS to buy them."

I don't know why Bungie has fallen into the deep end of the "we hate our players" pool, but holy shit do they seem to not give two hoots about how abusive their game is to the players.

It's like, any time you do something in the game that is fun, the design of the game is to then punish you by doing something wholly un-fun for hours in order to reap the full benefit of the fun you had. Enjoyed the raid? Do it 20 more times to get the gear to do the hard mode! Earned new armor? Level it up for hours on end to make it good enough to actually merit using! Earned Iron Banner Rank 5? Farm tens of thousands of glimmer to buy the rewards!

Hey Bungie, here's a novel idea: Make the game about the fun stuff, not about the bullshit that enables you to have brief moments of fun.

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And how much did you have to "mindlessly farm" PvP to get to Rank 5 in the first place?

I'm...seriously asking.

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I enjoy "glimming" pretty much every time I'm on PvE(save for the small(in comparison to prices) cap on it), and hate touching PvP with all my heart, and you're vice versa.

To each. A toast! Heh heh.

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And how much did you have to "mindlessly farm" PvP to get to Rank 5 in the first place?

I'm...seriously asking.

Well I don't know about your ungodly skills, but when I play against real humans I actually have to try to win. Sure, I only have to win one in every 6 games, but I ain't seeing much carrying going on in Iron Banner, and I don't much enjoy nor condone AFKing.

Exclusion Zone, though? Look up the definition of 'mindless farming' and there you will observe a photograph of my pale, emotionless face, with the rolling sand dunes and Cabal drop ships seen in the reflection of my glasses.

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I'm...seriously asking.

You can hit rank 5 in as little as 4 hours. 2 today, and 2 tomorrow. This is provided you turn in all bounties, and get the buff and wear the shader, class item, and emblem.

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I'm...seriously asking.

You can hit rank 5 in as little as 4 hours. 2 today, and 2 tomorrow. This is provided you turn in all bounties, and get the buff and wear the shader, class item, and emblem.

Hmm. I knew the buff was available, but I didn't know the shaders and emblems and stuff added on.

God, that's evenworse. So on top of "only" carrying Auto Rifles and Machine Guns, "only" playing as Warlocks(do Throwing Knives count?), "only" camping like a wuss instead of actually battling, we're "obligated" to all wear the exact same thing?

I guess I could try that, though.

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Hey Bungie, here's a novel idea: Make the game about the fun stuff, not about the bullshit that enables you to have brief moments of fun.

If they made the game properly, then Activision could not boast that players play for 3 hours a day on average. We'd all already be done with the game. But that's okay. I thought we were over this bullshit of "gameplay hours" after the pushback from overly long RPGs in the early 2000s which fluffed the game with shit to inflate the play time. But somehow it is back in full force.

Neither Bungie nor Activision care about creating the best game possible. If they did, it would not waste your time. It's sad and unfortunate, but here's a tip:

You don't need either of those guns.

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Hey Bungie, here's a novel idea: Make the game about the fun stuff, not about the bullshit that enables you to have brief moments of fun.

If they made the game properly, then Activision could not boast that players play for 3 hours a day on average. We'd all already be done with the game. But that's okay. I thought we were over this bullshit of "gameplay hours" after the pushback from overly long RPGs in the early 2000s which fluffed the game with shit to inflate the play time. But somehow it is back in full force.

Neither Bungie nor Activision care about creating the best game possible. If they did, it would not waste your time. It's sad and unfortunate, but here's a tip:

You don't need either of those guns.

The problem here is that shareholders don't know that gameplay hours full of bullshit mean people won't buy your expansions. Shareholders see "people play 3 hours per day" and think "people love this game! We'll be rich!" And the pre-ordered expansions fuel their misguided belief. Never. Preordering. Again. That's my new answer.

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The problem here is that shareholders don't know that gameplay hours full of bullshit mean people won't buy your expansions. Shareholders see "people play 3 hours per day" and think "people love this game! We'll be rich!" And the pre-ordered expansions fuel their misguided belief. Never. Preordering. Again. That's my new answer.

I have directly told a few current and former Bungie employees that their approach to Destiny (in terms of the required grinding, RNG progression, and content repetition) is completely terrible and backwards. Only the former employees seem to agree with me.

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The problem here is that shareholders don't know that gameplay hours full of bullshit mean people won't buy your expansions. Shareholders see "people play 3 hours per day" and think "people love this game! We'll be rich!" And the pre-ordered expansions fuel their misguided belief. Never. Preordering. Again. That's my new answer.

I have directly told a few current and former Bungie employees that their approach to Destiny (in terms of the required grinding, RNG progression, and content repetition) is completely terrible and backwards. Only the former employees seem to agree with me.

It sure seems to me that something at Bungie has everyone spooked. I'm assuming it has to do with how Joe and Marty left. If those guys weren't safe, no one is.

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It sure seems to me that something at Bungie has everyone spooked. I'm assuming it has to do with how Joe and Marty left. If those guys weren't safe, no one is.

I can't speak for Joe or Marty, their opinion on the game, or why they are no longer at Bungie.

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Not asking you to at all. Just conjecture on my part. If I worked at a company, and two of the pillars of the company were "let go," I'd be freaked the fuck out. Especially if (pure conjecture) part of the reason they were let go was that the game had some simply awful elements in it, and those guys spoke up about the problems. From that point on, if I cared about my job, I'd be sure to never discuss portions of the game I thought needed improvement.

And when it comes to destiny, there are portions that need full on overhauls.

EDIT: Interestingly, immediately after posting this, I was kicked out of the Exclusion zone with my first ever error code WEASEL. I'm sure it was purely coincidence.

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I don't remember this story coming out, but I admittedly avoided a lot of the aftermath stories of Joseph and Marty. I remember him taking a job at Microsoft. Could you point me to a place in which we know that Staten was fired?

I'm not saying it didn't happen or that internal politics didn't fuel decisions, but I just want to know where this is coming from.

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I don't remember this story coming out, but I admittedly avoided a lot of the aftermath stories of Joseph and Marty. I remember him taking a job at Microsoft. Could you point me to a place in which we know that Staten was fired?

I'm not saying it didn't happen or that internal politics didn't fuel decisions, but I just want to know where this is coming from.

https://www.bungie.net/7_Its-been-an-honor/en/News/News?aid=11101

Sounds more like a 'pull' out rather than a 'push.'

Of course, people can read into stuff whatever they want...

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Sounds more like a 'pull' out rather than a 'push.'

That is how I interpreted the story when it first came out. The way it was stated here sounded like he was definitively fired.

Of course, people can read into stuff whatever they want...

This was my first suspicion.

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Of course, people can read into stuff whatever they want...

They can, but I think it's crap to say he was fired as if that were a fact, and then say that only the reason he was fired was conjecture.

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Of course, people can read into stuff whatever they want...

They can, but I think it's crap to say he was fired as if that were a fact, and then say that only the reason he was fired was conjecture.

My personal suspicion is that Destiny's plot and narrative (the thing Joe had been working so hard on over the past 5+ years) was thrown out, so Joe rage-quit. I'm basing this on nothing besides the timing of his departure, and the final product we got with Destiny, so I could of course be way off. But if I had year of my work thrown aside in favor if, well, nothing... I'd certainly find it difficult to stay :-/

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My personal suspicion is that Destiny's plot and narrative (the thing Joe had been working so hard on over the past 5+ years) was thrown out, so Joe rage-quit. I'm basing this on nothing besides the timing of his departure, and the final product we got with Destiny, so I could of course be way off. But if I had year of my work thrown aside in favor if, well, nothing... I'd certainly find it difficult to stay :-/

This is what I felt about it also. It's not a firing, per se, but telling someone you're tossing aside years of their hard work for the garbage that is in the current game is the definition of a slap in the face. A punch, really. Add to it the fact that Joe's fantastic storytelling has ushered many Bungie games to glory in the past, and it really becomes all the more disturbing. You don't slaughter the golden goose, and you don't throw out Joe Staten's work. Hell, anyone who's worked on AAA titles knows that if you're throwing out the writing 1 year prior to delivery, your product is royally screwed.

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He wasn't fired. At least if he was, you do not know that. You labeled as pure conjecture only your speculation regarding why he was fired, but the entire premise is speculation.

I find it useless, unproductive speculation, but it's a free country.

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From my reading of what he said, he wasn't stating they were fired as though it was a fact; he said [something] depended on why they left, and that if they were let go it would probably have spooked employees. The if there is a hypothetical, which would make the whole thing hypothetical.

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From my reading of what he said, he wasn't stating they were fired as though it was a fact; he said [something] depended on why they left, and that if they were let go it would probably have spooked employees. The if there is a hypothetical, which would make the whole thing hypothetical.

It's clear to me that the premise is that they were both let go. The conjecture is about the why and the effect.

This is the kind of shit I hate about the internet.

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I get that the premise is that, but where we seem to differ is if the premise is itself a second piece of speculation. Well, rather, a first piece, I suppose.

It'd probably be best to just ask Kahzgul what he'd meant as opposed to trying to work it out.

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Sir, I am not trying to shit up the internet. What I'm doing is stating that the conditions under which both Joe and Marty left were suspicious at best.

I can't imagine a world where Joe voluntarily left Bungie unless things were going very very very badly there. He's been a pillar of the company, a constant proponent of it, and a marvelous storyteller basically since the company was founded. In fact, Joe used to be the go-to guy for interviews because Jason was press-shy. In my very limited interactions with the company members face to face, everyone was great, but Joe was a stand-out amazing person who actually gave me some very solid, very helpful career advice many years ago.

I don't think I'm alone among Bungie fans when I say that I love Joe. He's a great guy and has written some truly fantastic stories for Bungie's games.

And he left about a year before Bungie shipped Destiny. Around the same time that the reddit poster stated there was a "total rewrite" of the game. Around the same time that other writers were brought in to "punch up" the script (and we all know how that turned out). These things probably aren't coincidental (but that's conjecture).

Now, I'm a guy who has worked in the video game industry a fair bit, and for Activision, and I have a sense of the corporate culture there. These aren't bad people. In fact, they all want to make great games. BUT the decisions about how to make a great game all have to be couched in the guise of making more money for the shareholders. In fact (in actual fact), many of the decisions about hiring and firing at Activision have to do with what people think will make the shareholders happy, far more than about what will result in a better product. It's a business, and that's how it makes money. I get it.

That being said, I can easily imagine a world (now we're in conjecture land) where Joe was forced out either directly "we want you, Joe, to resign" or indirectly "we want you, Bungie, to completely rewrite the game 1 year out from launch." Neither of those are amicable departures for any writer who is proud of his work (and Joe should be very proud). Now, only Joe can really say whether he left willingly or not.

Marty's departure was more public, what with the tweets and such, and he's spoken out about it a little bit as well, so I don't feel the need to explain why I think he was forced out as much as I do for Joe.

Regardless - for me, on the outside looking in - these departures look bad. They look very bad. You may not see it, and you may not value my opinions on these things, and that's completely up to you, but I take issue with accusations that I'm simply trying to shit up the internet here. Bungie has entertained me for decades, and I am an avid fan of the company and what they have done in the past. I want the people who gave me so much joy in my life to be happy people. Seeing the strife and discord makes me sad. Seeing the state of Destiny makes me sad. I care very much about these people and their body of work, and I am concerned that Destiny is a step (several steps) down the path of abusive MMO style gameplay at the expense of their fanbase and to the detriment of the company as a brand, and the employees reputations as artists and game builders.

I'm sorry that my post required all of this explanation - I made some gross assumptions about how these two departures appeared to people in the public eye and for that I apologize.

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I'm in the same boat, I hit rank 5 this morning. Already ground (past form of grind?) enough glimmer for gauntlets and boots (while also buying shader and class item this week) and plan to grind for the scout rifle later too.

But, as weird as this sounds, I don't really mind the grind. I actually think I"m going to grind enough to get both boots and gauntlets as I like using both auto rifles and scout rifles, Won't kill me to have both. And I find relief in knowing I've already achieved rank 5, I don't HAVE to play IB anymore if I don't want to.

I mean, i'm just stoked that I completed every IB bounty every day this week. Last IB, I never thought I'd get 10 kills in a row. This time, I did it every day pretty easily. Honestly, I focused so hard during IB, I'll take a few hours of mindless farming.

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I try to make it easy on myself and don't make "glimmer farming" a thing. If I'm low on glimmer, I'll go play the strike playlist for a few hours, making sure I'm popping synths as I go.

Granted, the way the iron banner rewards are run, I'm sure I'll resort to actual farming of glimmer tomorrow night as I spent 15k on rare fusion rifles this week and am mostly broke.

In fact, I really wish that saladin would stick around for a few days after the event itself had finished so you could focus on ranking up without worrying so much about glimmer at the tail end of the event like that.

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Course, thats only cause I want spares of everything, so I've only myself to blame.

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I hit rank 5 last night and immediately bought the Scout Rifle. So far, I love it. I prefer the feel of a slower-firing-but-harder-hitting rifle, and this fits the bill quite nicely. The reload is hella-slow, but that's immediately negated by the "outlaw" perk. I also got Timur's Lash and re-rolled it until I landed on the Return to Sender and Killing Frenzy perks (seemed like a good combo for that gun).

I've actually decided to go all-in and deck my Titan out as my "Iron Banner" character. Bought the gloves and Titan-skirt, and I'm about half-way through grinding the glimmer I need for the boots. Tonight I'm going to finish that off, then grind for the shotgun and maybe even another pair of gloves, if I can stay awake long enough.

Bit of a tangent, but with my Titan being my Iron Banner character, I've decided to turn my Warlock into my Vault of Glass character. Full VoG armor (I'm sick of the stupid Crota gear... Higher level be damned!), full arsenal of VoG weapons, plus a few other essentials (Ice Breaker, Fang of Ir Yut, etc).

Kinda fun letting go of the "must be level 32" mindset and just equipping my characters however I want to.

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I hit rank 5 last night and immediately bought the Scout Rifle. So far, I love it. I prefer the feel of a slower-firing-but-harder-hitting rifle, and this fits the bill quite nicely. The reload is hella-slow, but that's immediately negated by the "outlaw" perk. I also got Timur's Lash and re-rolled it until I landed on the Return to Sender and Killing Frenzy perks (seemed like a good combo for that gun).

I've actually decided to go all-in and deck my Titan out as my "Iron Banner" character. Bought the gloves and Titan-skirt, and I'm about half-way through grinding the glimmer I need for the boots. Tonight I'm going to finish that off, then grind for the shotgun and maybe even another pair of gloves, if I can stay awake long enough.

Bit of a tangent, but with my Titan being my Iron Banner character, I've decided to turn my Warlock into my Vault of Glass character. Full VoG armor (I'm sick of the stupid Crota gear... Higher level be damned!), full arsenal of VoG weapons, plus a few other essentials (Ice Breaker, Fang of Ir Yut, etc).

Kinda fun letting go of the "must be level 32" mindset and just equipping my characters however I want to.

Gheleon's Demise is FANTASTIC. The best scout rifle in the game, imo, and it comes with what I consider to be perfect perks (I like AP rounds, while my friend insists on rerolling for field scout - which I don't think is needed due to Outlaw, but I digress).

Also rerolled a Timur's Lash that dropped to Zen Moment, Field Scout, and Feeding Frenzy.
And I rerolled the shotgun (someone's Lie) to Field Choke, Shot Package, and Hammer Forged (also Grenadier, but that's not the important bit here at all). Maximum range + shot package = the new Found Verdict.

Here's some hilarity: After spending all week on my Titan alt to get him the IB boots and gloves, and then earn these weapons (and farm glimmer for them), my buddy ran my warlock alt through Crota's End last night up to Ir'Yut. And my warlock got boots and gloves. All week vs. 1 hour.

Regardless, now I need to farm a crapton of plasteel plating and hadronic essence. I guess I'll just be running the strike playlists? At least that's fun, unlike this Exclusion Zone nonsense.

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Here's some hilarity: After spending all week on my Titan alt to get him the IB boots and gloves, and then earn these weapons (and farm glimmer for them), my buddy ran my warlock alt through Crota's End last night up to Ir'Yut. And my warlock got boots and gloves. All week vs. 1 hour.

Yeah, my original reason for playing Iron Banner was to get the boots my Titan needed to reach 32. After putting in a ton of time Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I ran the raid Friday night and whaddayouknow... Boots! But by that point, I figured I'd put enough time into IB I might as well see it all the way through, and I'm glad I did. Gheleon's Demise is indeed a beast, and I'm happy to get away from the Crota armor. Plus, it's been fun overall.

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Yeah, I love the IB and the competition it brings out. I wish I hadn't run into the handful of exploiter/cheaters that I did, and I wish the matchmaking was more reliable, and I wish initial spawn locations didn't so often dictate success or fail on certain maps, and I wish that the matchmaking algorithm was better at preventing you from playing the same map multiple times in a row, but despite it all, the game is still fun! Had some games that my buddies and I are still talking about, including one game where we came from behind after starting off down 7k points. I got a 16.0 K/D in one game, and one of my pals netted 38 kills in another. Good times!

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I'm curoius what your thoughts between the two are. I had a pre-expansion version of Gheleon's demise, so I have a general idea of the feel of it. but I don't have any good comparison for the fang, other than I expect it will be similar to VoC. Any thoughts here?

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Honestly, I really don't mind it. It's annoying for about ten minutes, until I'm comfortable with what I'm doing, and then I'm just in a zen zone. I think about work, I compose my next chapter in my head, sometimes I write music... It's peaceful and relaxing for me. Just me, my thoughts, and enemies dying all around me.

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I have hit rank 5 with Iron Banner! (Destiny)