No Attack/Defense/Light - Why and why not? (Destiny)
by Dan de Board 
, Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 16:37 (3331 days ago)
This is something I know a few people here have thought would be a good direction for the game to go in. I feel like there's good reasons for and against it.
The great thing about quantifiers like Attack, Defense and Light is that you can easily tell at a glance how good a person might be. A level 32 early in expansion content shows you that the player was good enough to run Crota hard, get their gear and level it up. Losing these quantifiers also makes it so you can't tell what's new in an expansion or what's desirable. Having the quantifiers takes a lot of the guesswork out of picking gear, because you know that you need to have xx A/D/L in order to be viable. It also gives people a reason to actually play the latest content, since they need the gear in order to remain relevant in the content. In short, these higher levels are a goal we want to reach, albeit a shallow one.
That said, if we take A/D/L away, it really changes up PvE. With no way to determine how good a piece of gear is outside of A/D/L, it all comes down to perks and rarity. The current system of rarity determining how many perks an item has (and what kind) works really well. Crucible (outside of Iron Banner) is great because it's all about the perks you have since it's a level playing field outside of player skill. With no A/D/L barrier, everyone can run the raids! That said, because of the way Destin is, we have to give players are reason to run the raids (outside of them being fun). This means that perks have to be raid specific (like a lot of firefly on stuff for Crota's End), or so good that they dominate in PvP as well as in PvE.
This whole situation is a real tightrope, what do you guys think?
No Attack/Defense/Light - Why and why not?
by Blackt1g3r , Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 17:52 (3331 days ago) @ Dan de Board
I've always wished that the gear didn't use light level, attack, or defense. I'd much prefer the gear be differentiated by stats, perks, and appearance. That way you might decide you like a piece of green armor but it doesn't hurt you to keep wearing it. As far as encouraging people to run Raids, I think just making Raids have exclusive gear is pretty much enough.
The only thing you miss out on in this case is the idea of using higher level enemies as gatekeepers to certain areas, but I've never understood the point in doing that (at least in Destiny) since it's not like Bungie is hiding special equipment, gear, or items in those areas anyway. Plus, once you hit 20 it doesn't matter anyway.
Agree in regards to making more matter
I've always wished that the gear didn't use light level, attack, or defense. I'd much prefer the gear be differentiated by stats, perks, and appearance. That way you might decide you like a piece of green armor but it doesn't hurt you to keep wearing it. As far as encouraging people to run Raids, I think just making Raids have exclusive gear is pretty much enough.
The only thing you miss out on in this case is the idea of using higher level enemies as gatekeepers to certain areas, but I've never understood the point in doing that (at least in Destiny) since it's not like Bungie is hiding special equipment, gear, or items in those areas anyway. Plus, once you hit 20 it doesn't matter anyway.
How many, say, Auto Rifles are there (common, rare, legendary, exotic) in Destiny? Like, maybe 50? Once you reach a certain level (20?), only like 10 of them matter at all. The rest are fodder. All that design, awesome names, personality, etc, for naught.
And it's the same for shotguns, and armor, and boots, rockets, and so on. It would be fabulous if they mattered - it the entire tool set was viable at any level.
Is it possible to make light/level/attack/armor a function of player achievement rather than loot? Leveling normally until Light, and then light is added per milestones. For example, I could grind Roc vanguard playlist (or Crucible, or Weeklies, or Nightfalls) to move from 30 to halfway through 31, but to get to 32 I'd have to complete so many Raids or Iron Banner activities.
Not grinding, achieving. The leap from 31 to 32 should indicate that players have conquered the hardest Destiny has to offer. 2 Normal Raids + 1 Hard Mode? 1 flawless raid? 50 victories in IB, or +500 in IB?
EDIT: I really like messing around with builds and perks and such, and simply want more options. Really, I'm just asking Bungie to give me a reason to dink around in their world more.
By that logic, we should measure players by their Grimoire
by Dan de Board , Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 19:56 (3331 days ago) @ yakaman
Players experiencing things is definitely an interesting way to look at progression, but it may be flawed. Of course, any system where you can at-a-glance measure a player is inherently flawed and skewed in some way...
By that logic, we should measure players by their Grimoire
Players experiencing things is definitely an interesting way to look at progression, but it may be flawed. Of course, any system where you can at-a-glance measure a player is inherently flawed and skewed in some way...
The Grimoire score is how I size up my crucible opponents. Anything less than 2k = cannon fodder. Anyone over 2.5k is someone to respect.
Agree in regards to making more matter
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 20:11 (3331 days ago) @ yakaman
Is it possible to make light/level/attack/armor a function of player achievement rather than loot? Leveling normally until Light, and then light is added per milestones. For example, I could grind Roc vanguard playlist (or Crucible, or Weeklies, or Nightfalls) to move from 30 to halfway through 31, but to get to 32 I'd have to complete so many Raids or Iron Banner activities.
A good idea at first, but I dislike it more. It still promotes grinding. Even if you did it without grinding (exp is awarded only for activity completion, and only once like the story missions), it would just be pointless would it not?
The best thing is to get rid of level altogether, and have each activity have 5 or so difficulty levels. Each difficulty level can give out its own gear drops. You can choose whatever difficulty level you want upon doing the activity.
I like this idea
by Blackt1g3r , Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 20:43 (3331 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Let players determine the level of challenge they want and use that to decide what kinds of rewards are available. Just like with the strike playlists. Of course, Bungie would need to determine what those difficulty modifiers are. If you get rid of level, then you could maybe just use stock damage reduction/increase type modifiers and/or skulls.
I like this idea
If you get rid of level, then you could maybe just use stock damage reduction/increase type modifiers and/or skulls.
Or, y'know, smarter AI. :/
I like this idea
by CyberKN 
, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 20:58 (3331 days ago) @ iconicbanana
I recall an interview with Bungie's AI lead for Halo 3 on the Bungie Podcast-
He said that while they did tweak numbers like Fire-rate, damage, and health, there really wasn't a big difference for in AI between any of Halo's difficulties. It was the fact that they were living longer and and therefore had more time to make and execute decisions.
That being said, I've definitely noticed some weirdness for Destiny's AI. it flip-flops between being defensive and offensive on a dime, over and over again. Anyone who's ever tried to bait out a sword-bearer or gate-keeper knows what I'm talking about.
I like this idea
I recall an interview with Bungie's AI lead for Halo 3 on the Bungie Podcast-
He said that while they did tweak numbers like Fire-rate, damage, and health, there really wasn't a big difference for in AI between any of Halo's difficulties. It was the fact that they were living longer and and therefore had more time to make and execute decisions.
That being said, I've definitely noticed some weirdness for Destiny's AI. it flip-flops between being defensive and offensive on a dime, over and over again. Anyone who's ever tried to bait out a sword-bearer or gate-keeper knows what I'm talking about.
I think I'm more complaining about Destiny's AI in general (grumpy face). I don't remember that interview but that's fascinating; I always felt like elites reacted faster on Legendary, but damn, I guess they just didn't go down so easy.
I like this idea
I recall an interview with Bungie's AI lead for Halo 3 on the Bungie Podcast-
He said that while they did tweak numbers like Fire-rate, damage, and health, there really wasn't a big difference for in AI between any of Halo's difficulties. It was the fact that they were living longer and and therefore had more time to make and execute decisions.
That being said, I've definitely noticed some weirdness for Destiny's AI. it flip-flops between being defensive and offensive on a dime, over and over again. Anyone who's ever tried to bait out a sword-bearer or gate-keeper knows what I'm talking about.
I think I'm more complaining about Destiny's AI in general (grumpy face). I don't remember that interview but that's fascinating; I always felt like elites reacted faster on Legendary, but damn, I guess they just didn't go down so easy.
Some of the halo AI changes simply had to do with the enemies having more grenades at higher difficulties. Also, the elites being able to effectively charge you (because you couldn't just blast em in the face due to higher shields) changed how you as a player had to respond to their AI.
Even so, I find the halo AI dramatically more compelling than the Destiny AI. Destiny doesn't feel like AI at all, so much as a series of scripts. Also, every creature in Halo had different AI. In destiny, I feel like the Dregs, Vandals and Acolytes all have identical AI. Other critters are dang similar. Also, the proper method of engagement to virtually every enemy in Destiny is "shoot it in the face (or bird poop canister if it's a vex humanoid)." There's no need for adaptive or varied tactics.
I WISH
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