RIP Hawkmoon, and other hidden changes.

Ran even more Crucible with Cody and Sammy to try to get used to the changes, and We've noticed some oddities.

Cody thinks that the range of FRs might have been reduced, while I feel that a greater tragedy is afoot.

My Hawkmoon feels like a regular hand cannon.

I noticed that I can no longer two-shot (except on occasion), with most fights taking three shots (doing 44 damage now, instead of 96). On top of that, I fired six shots at a point-blank target (hip fire), and missed every single one of them. At long range, I was barely hitting anyone.

This is a long fall from back when I could two-shot a sniper, and reminds me of how much transparency Bungie has lacked with their previous updates, with people finding out through Reddit what Bungie has tinkered with.

Anyone else noticing different weapon behaviors?

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Anyone else noticing different weapon behaviors?

It's either a combination of even more increased spread, a reduction in range, or both with regards to fusion rifles. Guys were surviving blasts that would have easily killed before.

I'm not certain, but it felt pretty off.

Glad I got a Hawkmoon while it was still good. Oh wait. I didn't.

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Is it true the Mythoclast was fixed?

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Is it true the Mythoclast was fixed?

Nope.

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Is it true the Mythoclast was fixed?

Nope.

Guess that's a myth, then.

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YES. Okay glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the serious decline in accuracy and range of hand cannons. Brought my Thorn in and was shooting wildly because my shots just wouldn't hit.

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YES. Okay glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the serious decline in accuracy and range of hand cannons. Brought my Thorn in and was shooting wildly because my shots just wouldn't hit.

Welp, there goes my days-long spree of doing kinda sorta okay in crucible.

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I think Deej took it super personally that I killed him so much when we had the Bungie bounty and now he's making them nerf all the guns I like using. SUROS, Thorn...if only I had a Felwinter's Lie so that OP piece of shit would be nerfed...

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I think Deej took it super personally that I killed him so much when we had the Bungie bounty and now he's making them nerf all the guns I like using. SUROS, Thorn...if only I had a Felwinter's Lie so that OP piece of shit would be nerfed...

tosses hand cannon into vault, picks up Three Little Words

Get it's the pulse rifle life for me?

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I think Deej took it super personally that I killed him so much when we had the Bungie bounty and now he's making them nerf all the guns I like using. SUROS, Thorn...if only I had a Felwinter's Lie so that OP piece of shit would be nerfed...

tosses hand cannon into vault, picks up Three Little Words

Get it's the pulse rifle life for me?

Vision of Confluence is even better now. More engagements at range. Try it out folks!

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So far I've noticed a hiphop track, and banjoes among others.

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The one that doesn't work if you have Music disabled, which is weird considering that it's audio in the game world, not the soundtrack...

I was also telling Cody that it makes me sad to hear Siege of Madrigal, knowing that Bungie owns it instead of Marty (but why would he, right?)...

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Work for hire laws with copyright are clear enough that I would never expect Marty to own the song, but it is interesting that the rights didn't flow to 343 (or maybe it did and got licensed back for this)

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[image]

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They're not just increasing the damage this time around. With a new upgrade path for exotics and legendaries, where is there to go if you're already sniping people across the map with a pistol?

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So if the exotic handcannons have been nerfed, then that should make pulse rifles the new OP weapons eh? At least red death.

I'm cool with anything that brings more balance to the sandbox, and handcannons were mildly outclassing some other weapons. I am slightly concerned about the special and heavy changes, but I've always been primarily a primary weapon user. So, in someways, I'm curious to see how it plays out.

I am disappointed in the changes to fusion rifles, even though I hated them originally. But it seems that by nerfing them, they created a larger pool of shotty users, which I also strongly dislike. I do think that the shotties have the proper range and damage though, so I wouldn't want to see them nerfed to try to compensate. I really think the issue comes with map design and unlimited sprint. Too few maps allow for adequete sniping vs close range combat, so the obvious choice is a shotty. The unlimited sprint makes it too easy for guys to close the gap, and tougher for snipers to hit at long distances. I'd like to see a timed sprint feature to slow down player movement.

Also, if shotties are 1 shot kills, and fusion rifles (maybe not now) are 1 shot kills. What about a sniper that could 1 shot kill even on body shots. Like changing NO Land Beyond to produce this, with a smaller mag (max 3 rounds) and slower ROF and reload speed. Eh... on second thought, thats a primary weapon so no.

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Got absolutely wrecked by a Stranger's Rifle last weekend. Seriously, TTK was ridiculously low at mid-range. Luckily, my teammates had good team-skills, so my Bad Juju and I managed to stay out of its way most times.

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Also, if shotties are 1 shot kills, and fusion rifles (maybe not now) are 1 shot kills. What about a sniper that could 1 shot kill even on body shots. Like changing NO Land Beyond to produce this, with a smaller mag (max 3 rounds) and slower ROF and reload speed. Eh... on second thought, thats a primary weapon so no.

Nope. Then it would be like having a golden gun constantly. NLB could use a slight increase in rate of fire. I think it also needs a big buff in PvE.

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Ran even more Crucible with Cody and Sammy to try to get used to the changes, and We've noticed some oddities.

Cody thinks that the range of FRs might have been reduced, while I feel that a greater tragedy is afoot.

My Hawkmoon feels like a regular hand cannon.

I noticed that I can no longer two-shot (except on occasion), with most fights taking three shots (doing 44 damage now, instead of 96). On top of that, I fired six shots at a point-blank target (hip fire), and missed every single one of them. At long range, I was barely hitting anyone.

This is a long fall from back when I could two-shot a sniper, and reminds me of how much transparency Bungie has lacked with their previous updates, with people finding out through Reddit what Bungie has tinkered with.

Anyone else noticing different weapon behaviors?

Welp, I know what I'm testing when I get home.

I'm hoping that you were in another sleep deprived state and this is wrong. LOL :(

- CC

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Ran even more Crucible with Cody and Sammy to try to get used to the changes, and We've noticed some oddities.

Cody thinks that the range of FRs might have been reduced, while I feel that a greater tragedy is afoot.

My Hawkmoon feels like a regular hand cannon.

I noticed that I can no longer two-shot (except on occasion), with most fights taking three shots (doing 44 damage now, instead of 96). On top of that, I fired six shots at a point-blank target (hip fire), and missed every single one of them. At long range, I was barely hitting anyone.

This is a long fall from back when I could two-shot a sniper, and reminds me of how much transparency Bungie has lacked with their previous updates, with people finding out through Reddit what Bungie has tinkered with.

Anyone else noticing different weapon behaviors?

Welp, I know what I'm testing when I get home.

I'm hoping that you were in another sleep deprived state and this is wrong. LOL :(

- CC

Yes, I too hope this is coming from Korny Miller and not Korny Munkerson.

I just finally got my Hawkmoon fully leveled last night and haven't even taken it into the Crucible yet.

Let me know what your feeling is after using it Cutter.

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Ran even more Crucible with Cody and Sammy to try to get used to the changes, and We've noticed some oddities.

Cody thinks that the range of FRs might have been reduced, while I feel that a greater tragedy is afoot.

My Hawkmoon feels like a regular hand cannon.

I noticed that I can no longer two-shot (except on occasion), with most fights taking three shots (doing 44 damage now, instead of 96). On top of that, I fired six shots at a point-blank target (hip fire), and missed every single one of them. At long range, I was barely hitting anyone.

This is a long fall from back when I could two-shot a sniper, and reminds me of how much transparency Bungie has lacked with their previous updates, with people finding out through Reddit what Bungie has tinkered with.

Anyone else noticing different weapon behaviors?

Welp, I know what I'm testing when I get home.

I'm hoping that you were in another sleep deprived state and this is wrong. LOL :(

- CC

Yes, I too hope this is coming from Korny Miller and not Korny Munkerson.

I just finally got my Hawkmoon fully leveled last night and haven't even taken it into the Crucible yet.

Let me know what your feeling is after using it Cutter.

Could be good for you, actually. If you never got to use one before the patch, you don't know what you're missing.

Right??

Right?

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Yes, I too hope this is coming from Korny Miller and not Korny Munkerson.

I just finally got my Hawkmoon fully leveled last night and haven't even taken it into the Crucible yet.

Let me know what your feeling is after using it Cutter.

Ok, I played several games with it last night and I still think it's a great Crucible weapon. At medium range and shorter, it was as good as always. However, I did notice that it was difficult to hit people at long range. In the past, it was pretty easy to ping someone from B to C on Shores of Time. Now, not so much - I couldn't even register a hit.

I seem to remember that the patch before last was supposed to increase the spread at long ranges for hand cannons. So maybe that's what I'm seeing instead of some stealth change by Bungie. Either way, it's definitely not a sniper like it use to be.

- CC And Thorn seemed fine to me too. Same deal as Hawkmoon.

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Yes, I too hope this is coming from Korny Miller and not Korny Munkerson.

I just finally got my Hawkmoon fully leveled last night and haven't even taken it into the Crucible yet.

Let me know what your feeling is after using it Cutter.

Ok, I played several games with it last night and I still think it's a great Crucible weapon. At medium range and shorter, it was as good as always. However, I did notice that it was difficult to hit people at long range. In the past, it was pretty easy to ping someone from B to C on Shores of Time. Now, not so much - I couldn't even register a hit.

I seem to remember that the patch before last was supposed to increase the spread at long ranges for hand cannons. So maybe that's what I'm seeing instead of some stealth change by Bungie. Either way, it's definitely not a sniper like it use to be.

- CC And Thorn seemed fine to me too. Same deal as Hawkmoon.

Good to hear. Thanks for the update!

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Yes, I too hope this is coming from Korny Miller and not Korny Munkerson.

I just finally got my Hawkmoon fully leveled last night and haven't even taken it into the Crucible yet.

Let me know what your feeling is after using it Cutter.

Ok, I played several games with it last night and I still think it's a great Crucible weapon. At medium range and shorter, it was as good as always. However, I did notice that it was difficult to hit people at long range. In the past, it was pretty easy to ping someone from B to C on Shores of Time. Now, not so much - I couldn't even register a hit.

I seem to remember that the patch before last was supposed to increase the spread at long ranges for hand cannons. So maybe that's what I'm seeing instead of some stealth change by Bungie. Either way, it's definitely not a sniper like it use to be.

- CC And Thorn seemed fine to me too. Same deal as Hawkmoon.

Thorn seems to be working fine. If anything, I've been dying to Thorn far more during our encounters since my Hawkmoon can't counter it as well as before. I got some good footage last night of how much Hawkmoon has been nerfed, and I think it's a body shot issue. When I land headshots, I can kill like it normally could, except there's a pretty serious range dropoff, which Thorn's poison doesn't suffer from. Hawkmoon goes from 94 to 64 pretty quickly (from the Ammo crate on Burning Shrine to C, for example, where it used to be a prime Hawk-sniping position.

A lot of the magnetism from hip-fire seems to have been lost too, but after plenty of games, I'm getting used to that. I have a clip where I fire at a guy without shields at close range, and it takes two more hits to kill him.

It was definitely nerfed, intentionally or not.

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Yes, I too hope this is coming from Korny Miller and not Korny Munkerson.

I just finally got my Hawkmoon fully leveled last night and haven't even taken it into the Crucible yet.

Let me know what your feeling is after using it Cutter.

Ok, I played several games with it last night and I still think it's a great Crucible weapon. At medium range and shorter, it was as good as always. However, I did notice that it was difficult to hit people at long range. In the past, it was pretty easy to ping someone from B to C on Shores of Time. Now, not so much - I couldn't even register a hit.

I seem to remember that the patch before last was supposed to increase the spread at long ranges for hand cannons. So maybe that's what I'm seeing instead of some stealth change by Bungie. Either way, it's definitely not a sniper like it use to be.

- CC And Thorn seemed fine to me too. Same deal as Hawkmoon.

Thorn seems to be working fine. If anything, I've been dying to Thorn far more during our encounters since my Hawkmoon can't counter it as well as before. I got some good footage last night of how much Hawkmoon has been nerfed, and I think it's a body shot issue. When I land headshots, I can kill like it normally could, except there's a pretty serious range dropoff, which Thorn's poison doesn't suffer from. Hawkmoon goes from 94 to 64 pretty quickly (from the Ammo crate on Burning Shrine to C, for example, where it used to be a prime Hawk-sniping position.

A lot of the magnetism from hip-fire seems to have been lost too, but after plenty of games, I'm getting used to that. I have a clip where I fire at a guy without shields at close range, and it takes two more hits to kill him.

I didn't have any issue with hip fire last night, but you've probably put in more trigger time than I have since the latest patch.

It was definitely nerfed, intentionally or not.

Just curious - Did you play with Hawkmoon much between the last two patches? I know I didn't because I was experimenting with Red Death and Bad JuJu. I wonder if either we didn't use it enough to notice the nerf or if the new patch actually made the nerf effective.

- CC

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It was definitely nerfed, intentionally or not.

Just curious - Did you play with Hawkmoon much between the last two patches? I know I didn't because I was experimenting with Red Death and Bad JuJu. I wonder if either we didn't use it enough to notice the nerf or if the new patch actually made the nerf effective.

- CC

I used it extensively before, during, and after the previous nerf. Since I got it, it's been pretty much my Hunter's exclusive primary.

The patch before this one removed the ability to counter-snipe with it (it was a two-shot at long range). Remember how I was lamenting that I can't seem to break 49 kills in a game?

With the previous patch, I was still doing pretty great with it, and the two-shot was very reliable.

Past few days I've barely been breaking even in games...

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Perhaps you became overly reliant on a game breaking gun and now have to play according to the same rules as everyone else?

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Perhaps you became overly reliant on a game breaking gun and now have to play according to the same rules as everyone else?

Breaking the game was the only thing this gun could be called an Exotic for...

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Perhaps you became overly reliant on a game breaking gun and now have to play according to the same rules as everyone else?

Funny thing about that is that I don't even use it that much. Handcannons are number 7 in my list of top Crucible weapons. Even when you look at my Hunter, which I thought always used Hawkmoon, It's fourth on my list of PvP kills, with Auto rifles (namely Monte Carlo) above it on the list.

But like I said, I adapt quickly; even with a gimped Hawkmoon, I'm not exactly a defenseless Butt Monkey (Munky):

(Note how the guy at :35 takes four hits to bring down at close range.)

The nerf is sad for a few reasons; for example, getting the ten Dead Man's Hand medals for the bounty were guaranteed in two games tops with Hawkmoon, but I don't think I've gotten a single one post-patch. This reminded me of another stealthy change that Bungie made affecting another bounty. The Mythoclast now sucks when trying to get the Overcharge bounty. It used to be the go-to weapon for it, but Bungie changed that, without telling us.

Which is a major point of my original post that was overlooked. Hawkmoon was just my personal observation of the real issue (that has been addressed in another post), Bungie isn't upfront about the changes they're making to the game. They give us basic patch info, but it's clearly only a piece of the bigger picture. That's a problem, and one that needs to be addressed.

Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

The biggest tragedy is when the poor Xbox plebs get Hawkmoon, they won't understand. They'll scratch their heads, wonder what all the fuss was about, and Vault it. They'll never understand...

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The biggest tragedy is when the poor Xbox plebs get Hawkmoon, they won't understand. They'll scratch their heads, wonder what all the fuss was about, and Vault it. They'll never understand...

This is what the fuss was about.

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This is what the fuss was about.

This is pure adult content, my friend...

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Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

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Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

You implied that my post was talking about exotic hand cannons (and you clearly still think that). I never said that (and in fact, highlighted how much better TLW was going to be in a different, earlier post), my post was strictly talking about my experience with Hawkmoon post-patch.

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Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

Re-read the posts. Kermit was the one who misinterpreted my post, and Jackie drew from his generalization. Your response was in regards to how THEY thought a general change was brought to the class of weapon. Though to be fair, "I think it's a lot of 'the sky is falling' nonsense, personally" is phrased in such a way that it seemed to be referencing my original post, but looking into it, I'm pretty sure you were strictly speaking with regards to how drastically the despair set in between my post, Kermit's, and Jackie's...

Sorry about that.

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Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

Re-read the posts. Kermit was the one who misinterpreted my post, and Jackie drew from his generalization.

Was looking for something else, and just noticed this from last week. I don't think I misinterpreted your post because I didn't respond to your post. My response was to ChaosSociety and would have been better had I begun it with "If true ...." I reacted to the idea that Thorn was now weaker, but the truth is, I haven't had the chance to use it myself since the update so I still don't know anything based on my own experience. I reacted to a rumor, and I guess inadvertently gave credence to the rumor.

Your response was in regards to how THEY thought a general change was brought to the class of weapon. Though to be fair, "I think it's a lot of 'the sky is falling' nonsense, personally" is phrased in such a way that it seemed to be referencing my original post, but looking into it, I'm pretty sure you were strictly speaking with regards to how drastically the despair set in between my post, Kermit's, and Jackie's...

Despair is a strong word in my case. If Thorn had been nerfed, I'd describe myself as bemused. I have a few days of owning Thorn and doing better than I have before in Crucible, and BAM, the nerf hits.

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Not to drag this out too much, but I just watched a video from last year on Hawkmoon and it shows 63 damage to the body at pretty close ranges. Which would make for a 4 shot kill. Especially on those hulked up Titans like you were shooting. The first 3 shots that you hit on him counted for 210 damage which would kill all but the toughest of Titans. I think...

I'm not trying to be a pedantic ass. I'm just genuinely curious.

- CC

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The nerf is sad for a few reasons; for example, getting the ten Dead Man's Hand medals for the bounty were guaranteed in two games tops with Hawkmoon, but I don't think I've gotten a single one post-patch. This reminded me of another stealthy change that Bungie made affecting another bounty. The Mythoclast now sucks when trying to get the Overcharge bounty. It used to be the go-to weapon for it, but Bungie changed that, without telling us.

Well for this one small issue: luckily the Hand Cannon bounty (along with the Shotgun and Fusion Rifle crucible bounties) only require getting 15 kills, no sprees.

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Makes me dread logging in this evening and jumping back into the crucible.

Just when I was really starting to get the hang of it and really have a good time in PVP this happens.

Not looking forward to trying to find something else that works for me. So long trusty hand cannons, it was nice knowing you Hawkmoon, we had a wonderful time Thorn.

The buff on special ammo may or may not affect me, I'll need to play to see, there have only been a few games where I have really had to struggle to get more but mostly I always have enough. The only game I think this is really going to be crucial for me is The Anomaly where I wreck shop with my shotgun.

It really makes me sad. I rarely play PVE, once a week for new Nightfalls and once a week for raid nights if I am signed up, otherwise I can always be found in PVP. Now with one ammo buff after another (I am beyond pissed about the heavy ammo no longer dropping from dead enemies) and now the hand cannon buff, it really makes me question whether it's worth it or not.

I have generally been a 'glass-half-full' kind of person where Destiny is concerned. But right now...im just sad.

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Makes me dread logging in this evening and jumping back into the crucible.

Just when I was really starting to get the hang of it and really have a good time in PVP this happens.

Not looking forward to trying to find something else that works for me. So long trusty hand cannons, it was nice knowing you Hawkmoon, we had a wonderful time Thorn.

Okay, this is getting silly.

I don't think ANYONE can say for sure what the 'hidden' changes might be after a few hours of playing - but I can tell you that I died to Thorn burns MANY, MANY more times last night than has happened for MONTHS. If I were to try and guess what hidden changes (if any) were made to Thorn based on last night, I'd say it was BUFFED, not nerfed.

I don't have any way of judging Hawkmoon, but I gotta say, none of the changes that were made that *I* experienced were 'game-changing' - I did as well (or as poorly) as I usually do, and my weapons worked within the range they've been working for months.

I think it's a lot of 'the sky is falling' nonsense, personally.

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I don't think ANYONE can say for sure what the 'hidden' changes might be after a few hours of playing - but I can tell you that I died to Thorn burns MANY, MANY more times last night than has happened for MONTHS. If I were to try and guess what hidden changes (if any) were made to Thorn based on last night, I'd say it was BUFFED, not nerfed.

This is actually my experience too. I had tons of health left occasionally, and it just kept draining and draining and draining until I was dead. This was not an isolated incident.

Judging by the fact that every patch so far has unintentionally affected something, I would not be surprised if this were the case here as well.

But again, this is all subjective at this point and I have no idea if it's true or not.

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I reacted above to what was said, not my experience. I'll play some crucible this weekend and see how it goes.

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I reacted above to what was said, not my experience. I'll play some crucible this weekend and see how it goes.

Kermit, if you have time Friday night feel free to join us!

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I did as well (or as poorly) as I usually do, and my weapons worked within the range they've been working for months.

This has been my experience as well, but perhaps I haven't been using the weapons to their fullest potential. In any case, I had a good time with my brief foray. Really good players killed me more often than I killed them, and I killed others more often than not with my thorn. The only thing that I really noticed was the ammo counters cluttering my screen which was kind of annoying but I'll adapt.

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I did as well (or as poorly) as I usually do, and my weapons worked within the range they've been working for months.

This has been my experience as well, but perhaps I haven't been using the weapons to their fullest potential. In any case, I had a good time with my brief foray. Really good players killed me more often than I killed them, and I killed others more often than not with my thorn. The only thing that I really noticed was the ammo counters cluttering my screen which was kind of annoying but I'll adapt.

Also, you'll notice the counters only show up when they are close to dropping or you are nearby an ammo crate, so it's not as cluttered as I expected.

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I did as well (or as poorly) as I usually do, and my weapons worked within the range they've been working for months.

This has been my experience as well, but perhaps I haven't been using the weapons to their fullest potential. In any case, I had a good time with my brief foray. Really good players killed me more often than I killed them, and I killed others more often than not with my thorn. The only thing that I really noticed was the ammo counters cluttering my screen which was kind of annoying but I'll adapt.

Also, you'll notice the counters only show up when they are close to dropping or you are nearby an ammo crate, so it's not as cluttered as I expected.

You don't have to be close when somebody picks it up, you just need to get it before you die.

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Reports of the world's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

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Having had some time to ingest the new heavy ammo changes, I actually think there's more reason to use Machine Guns. The fact that you can't drop a bunch of new rockets to the guy that just blew you up with one means you aren't punishing your team as much for the mistake of dying with 90 bullets in your LMG; it's not like you were keeping the ammo before the change, and people can't switch to a Truth or Ghorn as easily now (i.e. after they die, or when things die down 40 seconds after the initial spawn) to exploit heavy ammo, so your likelihood of seeing an OP missile machine are lower. If you play with a group, I would think an ideal ratio now would be 2:1 lmg's to rocket launchers, whereas before I would have recommended 1:1.

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Having had some time to ingest the new heavy ammo changes, I actually think there's more reason to use Machine Guns. The fact that you can't drop a bunch of new rockets to the guy that just blew you up with one means you aren't punishing your team as much for the mistake of dying with 90 bullets in your LMG;

90 bullets is, if I give a conservative estimate of six per kill, 15 kills. You can't even get close to 15 kills with four rockets! If you die with a Machine Gun, you lose much much more. Therefore, it's best to use rockets to instantly kill anybody with an HMG on the opposing team.

Truth rocks even more than it did before.

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Having had some time to ingest the new heavy ammo changes, I actually think there's more reason to use Machine Guns. The fact that you can't drop a bunch of new rockets to the guy that just blew you up with one means you aren't punishing your team as much for the mistake of dying with 90 bullets in your LMG;

90 bullets is, if I give a conservative estimate of six per kill, 15 kills. You can't even get close to 15 kills with four rockets! If you die with a Machine Gun, you lose much much more. Therefore, it's best to use rockets to instantly kill anybody with an HMG on the opposing team.

Truth rocks even more than it did before.

Meh, that was always the risk. But now when you die, your killer doesn't get more rockets. And I think you're less likely to see Truth, because players won't take a chance switching to it when they have to pick heavy up immediately. If you can avoid the initial outburst, or plan with your team to counter it with a few of your own rockets, having the opportunity to kill 15 enemies is more worth the risk.

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Having had some time to ingest the new heavy ammo changes, I actually think there's more reason to use Machine Guns. The fact that you can't drop a bunch of new rockets to the guy that just blew you up with one means you aren't punishing your team as much for the mistake of dying with 90 bullets in your LMG;

90 bullets is, if I give a conservative estimate of six per kill, 15 kills. You can't even get close to 15 kills with four rockets! If you die with a Machine Gun, you lose much much more. Therefore, it's best to use rockets to instantly kill anybody with an HMG on the opposing team.

Truth rocks even more than it did before.

Meh, that was always the risk. But now when you die, your killer doesn't get more rockets. And I think you're less likely to see Truth, because players won't take a chance switching to it when they have to pick heavy up immediately. If you can avoid the initial outburst, or plan with your team to counter it with a few of your own rockets, having the opportunity to kill 15 enemies is more worth the risk.

So far, I've seen in nearly all the matches I've played since the patch, someone with rockets always hangs back and tries extra hard to stay alive just to mop up any MHG users that somehow survive the initial volley.

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late, but The Last Word doesn't show up on your back when stowed any more, it shows up on your hip like other hand cannons-- which is too bad, I had grown to like that it was different, and I thought it was intentional
it's like when they changed The Stranger's Rifle to use the same bland reload animation as all the other pulse rifles instead of using a scout rifle reload animation

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RIP Hawkmoon, and other hidden changes. (Destiny)