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How to pronounce Gjallarhorn: a long guide (Destiny)

by Funkmon @, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 10:18 (3297 days ago)
edited by Funkmon, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 10:39

First, when reconstructing pronunciation of dead languages, we must be aware that the reconstructions are not accurate, and are only inferred through writing done at the time, but are still pretty damn good.

The Gj

Many people look at Gjallarhorn and note the Gj, which stirs in people some kind of learning of Old English, where G was often pronounced as a y. For example of this, we can look at the first line of Beowulf.

Hwæt! Wé Gárdena in géardagum

Translated, it's literally "What! We spear Danes in yore days," or in more reasonable translation, "Hark! We, the warrior Danes in the days of yore," It goes on to talk of kings and their glory, but that's not important.

We can see G in two places, in Gárdena and géardagum. These are pronounced differently. The gar in gárdena is actually the gar in garlic, which means literally "spear leek", or a spear onion. It's pronounced gar, giving it a G sound. "géar" in géardagum means year, and it is pronounced similarly, giving THIS g a Y sound. However, the pronunciation of G in old English follows complicated rules I can't be bothered to deal with, just know it's not always so.

We also often look at the j, and think it's pronounced like "y", so we think, oh, I see. It's YALLarhorn. It is not.

In Old Norse, words starting with G, including those starting with Gj, always had a hard G sound, like in good.

Gallarhorn.

The As

These are pronounced as continental As, like in German "Mann" or similar to the a in lark.

Gahllahrhorn

The double l

In almost all cases of Old Norse, double consonants are pronounced as a double sounding of a consonant, like we might say in something like a "lead diver," where the d gets pronounced twice. However, the double l is different. We're not exactly sure how it's pronounced, but we do know there is a stop consonant (or plosive) before it. I'll explain that in a minute.

So if we had just one L, it would be pronounced very similar to our modern English L, but a little more breathy. What I mean by this is that there should have a kind of H sound to it. It sounds kind of like if you took the E out of hell, and tried to pronounce hll.

To do this, put your tongue in the normal l position, but curl it a little more. Then, let some air out from behind your tongue while pronouncing it. This is an Old Norse l, and I call it the breathy l.

Now, the plosive.

The plosive/stop consonant is something called an oral occlusive. This means that you occlude airflow, and stop it. Some examples are a glottal stop, which we can hear in the Scottish dropping of Ts (or, if you're from the midwest, say mountain. You probably won't say mownten, but mown'n), or more normal letters, b, p, t, g, k, or d. When you pronounce a b, note that air stops coming out of your mouth and then comes out all at the same time, creating the sound. You hold your lips for b and p, then release them, so the sound comes out. In fact, b and p are the same movement, but one, the b, uses your vocal chords, and the other, the p, does not. This is called voiced vs unvoiced.

The unvoiced consonants in English, that is, the ones that don't use your vocal chords, are p, t, and k. Try saying them. It's just the sound of released air. We know that one of these is used in a double l formation in Old Norse. We're pretty sure it isn't p, since that would be more obvious. It's either t or k, and most scholars think it's k, but nobody's completely sure on it.

So, where does it come in? Right before you start your breathy Ls. Where before you were saying hl, now you must say khl, but you cannot blend these together. You can't go khl. It's more like k'hl. Pronounce your K, then go breathy l. Got it? Good.

Gahk'hlahrhorn.

The Rs

Trill these MFers. If you know any Latin, it's like their R, or I guess Spanish, too, and a few other languages.

A trilled r exhibits something linguists call an alveolar trill. It's boring as hell. Here's a video on how to do it, plus examples.

I literally cannot trill my rs. I've been trying to for nearly a decade now, but I cannot. I do a cheat. The cheat is called an alveolar tap. You know how Mister Owl says "three" in the Tootsie Pop commercial? That is an alveolar tap during his R. So, when you're pronouncing your trilled Rs, cheat like Mr. Owl.

Gahk'hlahrrrhorrrn.

The horn

These are like we would pronounce them in English, except with a trilled R. Technically, there are rules for O, but in horn, it's basically pronounced like we do in horn, not substantially different.

Let's put it together

Okay, gjallarhorn. Let's break it down by syllable, and it should be easy.

Gak-hlar*-hor*n

Where r* is trilled, and remember, the As are the As in Darth, Fark.com, and *Ar-Isildur.

So now we know how to say

GJALLARHORN

PS. You will never hear me pronounce it like this. I pronounce it gallerhorn or Gyllenhaal, because the correct way is hard. I just wrote this so people would know that there's basically no point in trying to put on any kind of affected pronunciation.

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How to pronounce Gjallarhorn: a long guide

by ProbablyLast, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 12:10 (3297 days ago) @ Funkmon

"The weapon that makes things die."

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How to pronounce Gjallarhorn: a long guide

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 14:06 (3297 days ago) @ Funkmon

I just wrote this so people would know that there's basically no point in trying to put on any kind of affected pronunciation.

Challenge Accepted!

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Gee Horn

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 14:45 (3297 days ago) @ Funkmon

- No text -

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*Jeez Horn

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 14:49 (3297 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Jizz Horn*

by Funkmon @, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 15:10 (3297 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

- No text -

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Hey! Keep it rated PG-Horn

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 15:13 (3297 days ago) @ Funkmon

- No text -

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TL;DR? - Click Me.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 15:38 (3297 days ago) @ Funkmon

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Nope. That's a modern pronunciation, not the Old Norse way.

by Funkmon @, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 15:48 (3297 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

In English, we borrow it from Old Norse, not modern Scandinavian languages. So while that way is not necessarily incorrect, it is definitely not the most correct way to do it.

When a proper name or word is borrowed outright, until it becomes part of English's lexicon, most lexicographers suggest that the most correct way to use it is as a foreign word, that is, with the pronunciation of the language from which it was borrowed, not an alternate pronunciation.

For example, we would say Caesar, and not Czar, for Caesar, if it was not already part of the English lexicon.

The actual TLDR was the very last part of the post.

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The internet never lies. I saw it on the internet.*NM*

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 16:29 (3297 days ago) @ Funkmon

In English, we borrow it from Old Norse, not modern Scandinavian languages. So while that way is not necessarily incorrect, it is definitely not the most correct way to do it.

When a proper name or word is borrowed outright, until it becomes part of English's lexicon, most lexicographers suggest that the most correct way to use it is as a foreign word, that is, with the pronunciation of the language from which it was borrowed, not an alternate pronunciation.

For example, we would say Caesar, and not Czar, for Caesar, if it was not already part of the English lexicon.

The actual TLDR was the very last part of the post.

[image]

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The internet never lies. I saw it on the internet.*M*

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 16:48 (3297 days ago) @ INSANEdrive
edited by Ragashingo, Sunday, April 26, 2015, 16:52

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Nope. That's a modern pronunciation, not the Old Norse way.

by RC ⌂, UK, Monday, April 27, 2015, 20:25 (3296 days ago) @ Funkmon

In English, we borrow it from Old Norse, not modern Scandinavian languages. So while that way is not necessarily incorrect, it is definitely not the most correct way to do it.

When a proper name or word is borrowed outright, until it becomes part of English's lexicon, most lexicographers suggest that the most correct way to use it is as a foreign word, that is, with the pronunciation of the language from which it was borrowed, not an alternate pronunciation.

Personally, I'd prefer we just tag along with what the modern Nordics say. There is enough pronunciation divergence already.

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Nope. That's a modern pronunciation, not the Old Norse way.

by Funkmon @, Monday, April 27, 2015, 21:07 (3296 days ago) @ RC

It's not often a good way to go about things. For example, in modern Greek, delta is pronounced with an eth sound, like thelta. Because languages evolve and change, their words evolve and change. They really are two different languages, and since Gjallarhorn is a specific thing, mentioned only in Old Norse, modern Scandinavian languages use it as a borrowing as well, but are more liberal in their pronunciations, like we are with, for example, Grendel and Beowulf. However, under no circumstances should a Dane pronounce Beowulf Beeohwolf, but bayohwulf.

It would be like that were we to use modern pronunciations of ancient words.

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How to pronounce Gjallarhorn: a long guide

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Monday, April 27, 2015, 01:54 (3297 days ago) @ Funkmon

I refuse to spell it correctly until I get one of my own.

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