Do the special ammo changes bring back First Light?

So First Light and the Citadel (Mars) map were moved to Combined arms due to the sniper abuse going on. Those maps are larger and opened up use for scout rifles and snipers to a greater degree then seen on the other, smaller maps.

Bungie moved them to their own map rotation partly due to the heavy camping the large open maps favored. Now with the special ammo changes does that mean we could move them back into the Clash/Control game types?

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So First Light and the Citadel (Mars) map were moved to Combined arms due to the sniper abuse going on. Those maps are larger and opened up use for scout rifles and snipers to a greater degree then seen on the other, smaller maps.

Bungie moved them to their own map rotation partly due to the heavy camping the large open maps favored. Now with the special ammo changes does that mean we could move them back into the Clash/Control game types?

It would certainly make it harder to entrench on Bastion, but honestly the issue with those maps is how long it takes you to get anywhere, and the Pikes/Intercepts beings so brutally effective due to high mobility and ludicrous damage output.

They tend to snowball as a result, and with special and heavy ammo reductions, strategically engaging vehicles is even harder now. Also, we could use a 2-3 seater, because fun.

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So First Light and the Citadel (Mars) map were moved to Combined arms due to the sniper abuse going on. Those maps are larger and opened up use for scout rifles and snipers to a greater degree then seen on the other, smaller maps.

Heh - it's still a sniper/scout-dominated map. ;)

I played a game on it yesterday; just went through the DestinyTracker stats for it, and snipers and scout rifles accounted for nearly 40% of the kills. (This is in comparison to an average game on Firebase Delphi, where 14% of the kills were sniper/scouts, and 40% of the kills were hand cannons.)

Even with the limitations, I still found myself with plenty of sniper ammo. ;)

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Surprisingly, I'm seeing very little Icebreaker in PvP these days - I can't really tell if it's LESS than before the swap, but it's certainly not more. Not sure I can explain that; I KNOW that in an ammo-poor environment, a gun that creates its own should be more common... but it's not. At least not in the games I'm playing.

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These are too good to pass up on nowadays... Thorn, TLW, Red Death.....

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These are too good to pass up on nowadays... Thorn, TLW, Red Death.....

I still see a fair amount of Icebreaker, but mostly on larger maps. I've seen less snipers in general lately. Seems like everybody uses shotguns these days.

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I see the LDR or Preadyth's Revenge a lot these days. I've been sniped a few times by Icebreaker but more than not it's the other two

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These are too good to pass up on nowadays... Thorn, TLW, Red Death.....

I still see a fair amount of Icebreaker, but mostly on larger maps. I've seen less snipers in general lately. Seems like everybody uses shotguns these days.

Special ammo regen + shotgun improvement = too good to put down. I bought TLW last week and it can't get off the bench. Three Little Words (pulse rifle) and Invective have been extremely effective.

I'm killed so rarely by Snipers that I barely care. Maybe this doesn't matter because all I play is Control? I can't believe I'm about to say this, but...

...maybe snipes need a boost?

I feel dirty.

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I haven't seen it much lately either.

I ran across some NLB users on Bastion yesterday. Seems like they might have a little advantage on these larger maps and I was surprised I didn't see more people trying to use it on that playlist. They killed me a couple or three times and then I activated the counter to NLB: strafing side to side slightly. They never could hit me after that.

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I haven't seen it much lately either.

I ran across some NLB users on Bastion yesterday. Seems like they might have a little advantage on these larger maps and I was surprised I didn't see more people trying to use it on that playlist. They killed me a couple or three times and then I activated the counter to NLB: strafing side to side slightly. They never could hit me after that.

That's exactly how I counter hobgoblins. Works like a charm when I remember.

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I haven't seen it much lately either.

I ran across some NLB users on Bastion yesterday. Seems like they might have a little advantage on these larger maps and I was surprised I didn't see more people trying to use it on that playlist. They killed me a couple or three times and then I activated the counter to NLB: strafing side to side slightly. They never could hit me after that.

That's exactly how I counter hobgoblins. Works like a charm when I remember.

I'd think a death or two would do WONDERS for your memory. :)

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I haven't seen it much lately either.

I ran across some NLB users on Bastion yesterday. Seems like they might have a little advantage on these larger maps and I was surprised I didn't see more people trying to use it on that playlist. They killed me a couple or three times and then I activated the counter to NLB: strafing side to side slightly. They never could hit me after that.

That's exactly how I counter hobgoblins. Works like a charm when I remember.

I'd think a death or two would do WONDERS for your memory. :)

Out of sight, out of mind. If I see them, I'm strafing. Those other Vex enemies distract me, though. I suck at multitasking. :)

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Surprisingly, I'm seeing very little Icebreaker in PvP these days - I can't really tell if it's LESS than before the swap, but it's certainly not more. Not sure I can explain that; I KNOW that in an ammo-poor environment, a gun that creates its own should be more common... but it's not. At least not in the games I'm playing.

Ice Breaker kicks like a mule... far too much recoil for it to compete with Praedyth's Revenge and other high-stability sniper rifles in PvP. Plus, as unoudid pointed out, Crucible seems to be dominated by exotic primaries. I personally rotate between Thorn, Hawkmoon, Suros Regime, and Red Death. In any case, I'm always using an exotic primary :)

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Icebreaker's recoil makes two shot kills very difficult. If I don't happen to line up the headshot, or my target is rather still and giving me a clean chance at a headshot, I'll just hit them with 2 to the body and be done with it. With P&T or Praedyth's Revenge, the recoil is practically negligible, making this really easy. Icebreaker's recoil is so great that your target comes out of scope, making it pretty challenging to reacquire at the speeds PvP requires.

That being said, if you can do this with Icebreaker, you're a better sniper than me and you have my respect.

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So First Light and the Citadel (Mars) map were moved to Combined arms due to the sniper abuse going on.

Is that really what it was? People being dumb? Come on. You could move through the interiors of those maps and never have a sniper touch you. If you don't want to get sniped, don't take the outside ways from place to place!

Snipers were obviously good on both maps, but never game breakingly so in my experience.

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IIRC, it was entirely possible to lock a team into spawning all the way outside beyond A, where there is no cover at all. Not that that isn't obviously a design flaw, but really, how to fix it without killing the outside play?

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So First Light and the Citadel (Mars) map were moved to Combined arms due to the sniper abuse going on.

Is that really what it was? People being dumb? Come on. You could move through the interiors of those maps and never have a sniper touch you. If you don't want to get sniped, don't take the outside ways from place to place!

Snipers were obviously good on both maps, but never game breakingly so in my experience.

I don't think those maps being removed from Control/Clash had anything to do with sniper abuse. I certainly don't remember Bungie saying anything that could be understood to even imply that was the reason.

Players were complaining that those maps came up too frequently in the rotation. Players also talked a lot about how there was no reason to go into the Combined Arms playlist because those same maps were in Control and Clash already (with no differences between the Combined Arms version). I have always thought that the main reason they were taken out of the normal playlists is because Bungie wanted to highlight Combined Arms as a vehicle playlist, so they pulled the vehicle maps out of the other playlists.

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Problem: Combined Arms is not interesting enough
Solution: Do nothing about Combined Arms, make other playlists less interesting

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Problem: Combined Arms is not interesting enough
Solution: Do nothing about Combined Arms, make other playlists less interesting

Combined arms would make sense in Halo, but I just don't think vehicle play is very developed in Destiny. I'd have replaced combined arms with something better, like Capture the Flag or Team Oddball :-p

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I'd have replaced combined arms with something better, like Capture the Flag or Team Oddball :-p

How about Team Heavies? Special and heavy ammo crates are on quicker respawn timers.

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Do the special ammo changes bring back First Light? (Destiny)

I think the vehicles were actually the problem, not snipers.