Returning to Iron Banner after a Month Off... And I'm salty.

...sigh. Salty post incoming...

Last night I played 9 games of Iron Banner. I had above a 1.0 K/D ratio in every game but one, which is normally the mark of a good night. And yet I found the whole thing incredibly frustrating.

The netcode in Destiny is simply infuriating. Before you say my connection must stink, I get 50 Mbps down and 20 Mbps up (and I checked many times last night because of the reasons I'm about to enumerate). Three times I fired a golden gun blast into a guy who then (after my shot) charged and shotgunned me. I died, he lived. Several times I wasted golden gun blasts on a guy who just took no damage whatsoever and then teleported behind me to melee me to death. I got killed by a guy with a shotgun through a wall, and in my death view cam I saw him walk around the corner and fire the shot that must have killed me.

It's stupid how bad the multiplayer interactions are. CoD, Titanfall, Warframe - I have no problems whatsoever with multiplayer in these games. If I shoot at a guy in my crosshairs, I hit, ever goddamn time. Sometimes they lag and blink across the screen, but - again - if it looks like I hit them to me, then I actually hit them. I never get killed before the guy fires a shot, and I never get killed by guys who haven't actually moved into my line of sight yet. If I get above a 1.0 K/D, I feel great and I feel like I did really well.

In Destiny, I feel frustrated, because I should have had 5 more kills that game, or 3 fewer deaths, but for some reason my guns fired blanks and the enemy was firing magic JFK bullets.

I'm concerned about Trials of Osiris. Instead of being "who is the better team" it's going to be "who got luckier with bullshit lag glitches."

Damn it Bungie, I want your game to be good. If this was a game by literally any other studio, I'd never even have bought it.

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...sigh. Salty post incoming...

Before you say my connection must stink, I get 50 Mbps down and 20 Mbps up (and I checked many times last night because of the reasons I'm about to enumerate).

Not discounting your frustrations here (I feel your pain) but just because you have a good connection, that doesn't mean the other players in the match have good connections. The problems you described sound exactly like the symptoms of playing against opponents who are suffering from packet loss, slow upload connections, or both.

Basically, if a player has a poor connection, it can make it difficult for him/her to update the host with accurate information about where exactly they are, and what exactly they're doing. So a player might rush at you and hit you with a shotgun, but their poor internet causes a gap where you don't actually see it happen because the host literally doesn't know these actions have happened yet. Then the connection kicks in again, and the host gets an update and realizes "oh, they've actually moved 3 feet and pulled the trigger twice" and adjusts.

Side-rant:

Ever since playing the Alpha, I've wondered if Bungie is using the tech that powered Halo's theater mode as some kind of "lag compensator" during Destiny PvP matches. The theater mode runs on what is essentially a data log of every single player input and game calculation that happens during a match. When you load a "saved film", that log is being loaded back into the game, so the engine can recreate every single thing that happened in real time.

In Destiny, I see lots of situations where I see my bullets hit a guy, but he doesn't die. In the meantime, he kills me. Then a split second later, he drops dead and I score the points. In Halo, this wouldn't happen. If there was lag that prevented my kill from registering with the host, I was SOL. But in Destiny, I think the host constantly checks it's "theater log" against each player's log and looks for discrepancies. When it sees that my log shows I aimed at a target and did enough damage to score a kill, it updates the host log and makes the adjustment a split second later, hence the delay.

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I play on a cell tether much of the time, where I get about 10 megabits down, 2 up, 50ms ping which is good enough most of the time.

Playing with Narcogen in Kazakhstan before he got his fiber internet was actually usable with a half second ping, but I can't play Borderlands on coop with a dude two houses down, and Halo is laggy to the point of being unusable for me.

Destiny, though in maybe 1/10 games I lag to the point of it getting as bad as you say, at least I can DO STUFF.

And, when I'm not using a cell tether, I like playing with Banana and Up North and those guys still. If, to me, one of the games in an hour has frustrating lag, it's a small price to pay to play with my friends and have the team be effective.

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...sigh. Salty post incoming...

Before you say my connection must stink, I get 50 Mbps down and 20 Mbps up (and I checked many times last night because of the reasons I'm about to enumerate).

Not discounting your frustrations here (I feel your pain) but just because you have a good connection, that doesn't mean the other players in the match have good connections. The problems you described sound exactly like the symptoms of playing against opponents who are suffering from packet loss, slow upload connections, or both.

Basically, if a player has a poor connection, it can make it difficult for him/her to update the host with accurate information about where exactly they are, and what exactly they're doing. So a player might rush at you and hit you with a shotgun, but their poor internet causes a gap where you don't actually see it happen because the host literally doesn't know these actions have happened yet. Then the connection kicks in again, and the host gets an update and realizes "oh, they've actually moved 3 feet and pulled the trigger twice" and adjusts.

This rarely happens in COD. I feel like Bungie is trying to be the smartest about something.

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The netcode in Destiny is simply infuriating. Before you say my connection must stink, I get 50 Mbps down and 20 Mbps up (and I checked many times last night because of the reasons I'm about to enumerate).

You may know this, but my moderately anal technology side has to point out a few things for other's sake, and maybe yours :)

Among all the primary ways to measure a network connection, bandwidth, latency, and packet drop rate, games care way more about the last two, assuming your bandwidth is better than a 56k modem. In general, modern broadband and infrastructure has allowed for near zero packet loss and amazing latency, and bandwidth is what we all care about. But, when a connection becomes "bad" it's usually not because the bandwidth has dropped, but that latency has gone way up, or more often the packet loss has increased.

Now, severe packet loss will have an effect on total bandwidth, but unlikely to be in a way you'd notice. Say you had 100mbs available, but experienced 20% packet loss, forcing both sides to resend 20% of the info. Your pipe will run closer to 80mbs because of this, but it's not being capped at 80mbs that is killing your connection, it's that a fifth of all info is lost, out of order, and being resent if applicable. Not a problem if you're downloading a large file (who cares what order it comes in) but games really tend to care.

I'm concerned about Trials of Osiris. Instead of being "who is the better team" it's going to be "who got luckier with bullshit lag glitches."

Of course, if you're like me, the more likely scenario is that your opponent was fiddling with their connection and causing intentional issues.

95% of the time though the games plays beautiful with no latency issues for me at all.

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The truth of the matter is that online video games do their best to accommodate the average connection more than the best connection. It can be frustrating when you have a great connection because you'll experience other people's problems and "know" its not you, but the way the networking is setup provides a good experience for the majority of players instead of an experience that gives the players with the best connections a huge advantage (though an advantage does still exist to a certain degree).

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The truth of the matter is that online video games do their best to accommodate the average connection more than the best connection. It can be frustrating when you have a great connection because you'll experience other people's problems and "know" its not you, but the way the networking is setup provides a good experience for the majority of players instead of an experience that gives the players with the best connections a huge advantage (though an advantage does still exist to a certain degree).

I don't think it's your main point, but it sounds like you are saying that "accommodating" the average connection instead of the "best" one makes for a worse playing experience for the players with the "best" connection. Is that what you think? I'm trying to imagine how that could be.

Granted, the depth of my network knowledge is thin, but all of the ways I can think to improve the playing experience of the average connection would also improve the best connection, or at the least be transparent to those with the best connection.

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The truth of the matter is that online video games do their best to accommodate the average connection more than the best connection. It can be frustrating when you have a great connection because you'll experience other people's problems and "know" its not you, but the way the networking is setup provides a good experience for the majority of players instead of an experience that gives the players with the best connections a huge advantage (though an advantage does still exist to a certain degree).

I don't think it's your main point, but it sounds like you are saying that "accommodating" the average connection instead of the "best" one makes for a worse playing experience for the players with the "best" connection. Is that what you think? I'm trying to imagine how that could be.

Granted, the depth of my network knowledge is thin, but all of the ways I can think to improve the playing experience of the average connection would also improve the best connection, or at the least be transparent to those with the best connection.

I'm a total laymen here as well, but to the best of my knowledge it comes down to the decision to build systems that try to compensate for lag and other connection problems (in an attempt to "smooth over" the experience for everyone) rather than simply leaving players with sub-par internet in the cold.

For example, in a peer-to-peer system, the most efficient way to run the game is to give host to the player with the fastest and most stable internet connection. If Bungie were simply to leave it at that, the host would have a MAJOR advantage over any other players in the game, especially those with poor connections.

Now host advantage is obviously still a thing. However, Bungie (along with most developers who make competitive online games these days) put all kinds of predictive algorithms in place to try and negate host advantage (and laggy disadvantage) as much as possible.

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Yeah, Cruel covers it pretty well in layman terms. Basically the systems they usually use will use data sent from your console, even if it's a little late. So if you're playing against someone with high latency, and their console swears that they shot you three times in the face with their hand cannon, but on your screen you shot him with your shotgun while he was standing in place, the game has to make a decision on what to do. This is where a lot of the complaints come from since the game will sometimes decide based on timestamps that he killed you and you didn't kill him. If it were a true system based on pure latency, the person with the lowest latency would always win those fights.

This happens in smaller events throughout games that you brush off because it's not as big of a deal, like you hear you pull your trigger, hear your gun fire, but nothing actually gets shot, that can be a latency based issue, on either side.

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Yeah, Cruel covers it pretty well in layman terms. Basically the systems they usually use will use data sent from your console, even if it's a little late. So if you're playing against someone with high latency, and their console swears that they shot you three times in the face with their hand cannon, but on your screen you shot him with your shotgun while he was standing in place, the game has to make a decision on what to do. This is where a lot of the complaints come from since the game will sometimes decide based on timestamps that he killed you and you didn't kill him. If it were a true system based on pure latency, the person with the lowest latency would always win those fights.

That's not an advantage based on a good connection though, that's not letting people take advantage of people with bad connections. It's weird, sure, but if their system records a kill prior to you recording one, regardless of when the server finds out about it, I really don't mind.

NOW. I have played crucible, so I do know that when lag is bad, shit gets really weird really fast. It can become intolerable to the point where the only sane course of action is to laugh and take another shot of whiskey.

Let me rephrase my original question: Do you believe there is netcode in place that adversely affects gameplay if all players in a game had a good connection? I understand that if you play against someone with a bad connection, that there are mechanisms that prevent a good connection from taking advantage of that, but that to me is not the same as having mechanisms that disadvantage a good connection.

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That's not an advantage based on a good connection though, that's not letting people take advantage of people with bad connections. It's weird, sure, but if their system records a kill prior to you recording one, regardless of when the server finds out about it, I really don't mind.

Well that's the thing though, if I don't have accurate visuals on what you're doing because your connection is worse it IS a disadvantage for me if I am shooting you while you run into a corner, but then die because you were actually right next to me. This is absolutely a deliberate decision made to make the experience more enjoyable for people that have worse connections. This is not a bad thing, but it can be very frustrating.

Let me rephrase my original question: Do you believe there is netcode in place that adversely affects gameplay if all players in a game had a good connection? I understand that if you play against someone with a bad connection, that there are mechanisms that prevent a good connection from taking advantage of that, but that to me is not the same as having mechanisms that disadvantage a good connection.

No I don't think there is, but that's also not the point I made in my original post, merely that it's designed to make the experience more enjoyable for the average connection. If the average connection IS a good connection, congrats you have a really good experience. The system does not specifically disadvantage a good connection, it can do that as a side effect of helping the over all experience be a better one.

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The truth of the matter is that online video games do their best to accommodate the average connection more than the best connection. It can be frustrating when you have a great connection because you'll experience other people's problems and "know" its not you, but the way the networking is setup provides a good experience for the majority of players instead of an experience that gives the players with the best connections a huge advantage (though an advantage does still exist to a certain degree).

You're right. Funkmon and his tether are ruining it for the rest of us!

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The truth of the matter is that online video games do their best to accommodate the average connection more than the best connection. It can be frustrating when you have a great connection because you'll experience other people's problems and "know" its not you, but the way the networking is setup provides a good experience for the majority of players instead of an experience that gives the players with the best connections a huge advantage (though an advantage does still exist to a certain degree).

You're right. Funkmon and his tether are ruining it for the rest of us!

If your definition for "ruining it" is "making the game tits-on-a-shark level hilarious", then yes.

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If your definition for "ruining it" is "making the game tits-on-a-shark level hilarious", then yes.

This is true

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If your definition for "ruining it" is "making the game tits-on-a-shark level hilarious", then yes.

This is true

I guess these connection issues might be what makes butt surfing possible. Let's celebrate, not hate!

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If your definition for "ruining it" is "making the game tits-on-a-shark level hilarious", then yes.

Agreed! Playing with Funkmon is THE BEST!

-Disciple

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Have given absolutely 0 ducks since. Bungie needs reconsider.

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Have given absolutely 0 ducks since. Bungie needs reconsider.

Yeah, it wears me down a bit, too. I've stuck with it because I want to collect the gear, but I do feel thoroughly burned out on the Crucible by the time the IB event ends each month. The combo of needing to grind through IB as fast as possible and then grind for glimmer to buy all the stuff you want is an extra kick in the pants.

Maybe if ranking up was a bit faster, it wouldn't feel like such a burden?

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Maybe if ranking up was a bit faster, it wouldn't feel like such a burden?

unless I'm mistaken. Bungie had originally said that there would only be 3 ranks after the first iron banner.

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Maybe if ranking up was a bit faster, it wouldn't feel like such a burden?

unless I'm mistaken. Bungie had originally said that there would only be 3 ranks after the first iron banner.

That would certainly be more manageable, especially for those who are trying to buy IB gear for multiple characters.

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Agreed and shaders + emblems should come as rewards from packages gained from levelling.

Rank 1 = can buy class gear
Rank 2 = can buy guns
Rank 3 = can buy armour

Hitting rank 1 = package with glimmer + emblem
Hitting rank 2 = emblem + shader
Hitting rank 3 = shader + glimmer

IB ranking would of been so much better like this.

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I would swap weapons and armor around, so running multiple characters for armor would be more feasible.

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Yeah, I was just thinking that only needing to get to rank 3 would feel a lot better. Rank 4 is tolerable, but I am very glad the stuff I want doesn't require me to push on all the way to 5.

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Maybe if ranking up was a bit faster, it wouldn't feel like such a burden?

unless I'm mistaken. Bungie had originally said that there would only be 3 ranks after the first iron banner.

And now if you want to max out that etheric light you gotta get to 5! (I don't really have a problem with this since I have tons of time on Sunday and Monday when the bonus is 100%-150%, but I definitely understand the frustration)

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*Hipster life*

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Honestly, for the last week or so, every game I have been in has been fraught with bad connections, including my own. It was making me suspect that there is actually an issue with Destiny's servers, as it seemed to be affecting so many people.

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Honestly, for the last week or so, every game I have been in has been fraught with bad connections, including my own. It was making me suspect that there is actually an issue with Destiny's servers, as it seemed to be affecting so many people.

Last night was particularly ugly. I realize not everyone could have Up North's "I just have to laugh it's so ridiculous" attitude, but it really was insane.

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Honestly, for the last week or so, every game I have been in has been fraught with bad connections, including my own. It was making me suspect that there is actually an issue with Destiny's servers, as it seemed to be affecting so many people.

Last night was particularly ugly. I realize not everyone could have Up North's "I just have to laugh it's so ridiculous" attitude, but it really was insane.

Nevermind that earlier comment, this is better.

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... and it made me all nostalgic. I might need to fire it up again and just get lost on the open waters :)

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Ill try to tone it back a little bit. I've come to realize that to others I am glitching through walls, shooting when dead, eating multiple shots and coming out unscathed. i realize that people purposely do this to gain the upper hand, I just play with the cards I'm dealt.

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Ill try to tone it back a little bit. I've come to realize that to others I am glitching through walls, shooting when dead, eating multiple shots and coming out unscathed. i realize that people purposely do this to gain the upper hand, I just play with the cards I'm dealt.

You'll never top that one guy.

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We had the game split our party of 6 down the middle and uounoudid and funk felt the full force of the shed internet. Sometimes I would walk through them, hit the wall behind and then both of us would die.

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It was fun running around trying to shotgun something I thought was there only to die myself a few seconds later.

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The fact that you seem to laugh as much as I do when you die or stupid things happen is the main reason why I play with you.

...now if only my sleep schedule wasn't fucked and I didn't only have a month to turn 300 pages of "WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING" into a script that won't make me die of embarrassment.

This message brought to you by the letter F.

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Honestly, for the last week or so, every game I have been in has been fraught with bad connections, including my own. It was making me suspect that there is actually an issue with Destiny's servers, as it seemed to be affecting so many people.

Same here. The last two days have been especially bad for me.

- CC

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Xbox live is down tonight. Maybe it wasn't Destiny, but Xbox's servers. I don't know.

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Not sure if my router or modem was to blame. but I've been having issues the last month or so where I'll go red or yellow bar before anyone else. Last night's complete lag fest pushed me over the edge and I went and bought a new modem today so hopefully I will no longer have some of these issues.

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Not sure if my router or modem was to blame. but I've been having issues the last month or so where I'll go red or yellow bar before anyone else. Last night's complete lag fest pushed me over the edge and I went and bought a new modem today so hopefully I will no longer have some of these issues.

If there's any takeaway from this thread, it's that this comment is a pipe dream. :)

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Yep. I know it's a pipe dream. But I don't want to be the one causing some of the issues. Plus my GF and the girl who rents our basement watch the crap out of netflix. we were in need of a better modem/router combo.

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Plus my GF and the girl who rents our basement watch the crap out of netflix.

Uh, I don't suppose that's happening while you're going red in Destiny, is it?

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Not usually. The modem has been acting up lately. It would reboot once a night and the last week the connection became unbearable. the renter and my GF are usually on netflix at different times since their schedules are nearly opposite.

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...sigh. Salty post incoming...

Well I , for one, am shocked. ;)

Before you say my connection must stink, I get 50 Mbps down and 20 Mbps up

2 points to make:

1. Bandwidth is not the same as latency, and latency is MUCH more important. You could have a gigabit pipe, but you'll still have a bad game experience if something causes the packets to have to travel a great distance, or traverse other links which have issues. Speedtest.net is not the ultimate assessor of network quality, and even if it were, it's only measuring the path between you and the test server.

2. Your connection might actually be fine. It might be absolutely perfect in every conceivable way. Perhaps you're sitting in Google HQ right now. But if the person you're shooting at has an issue, it's going to have the same sort of effects.

I don't know about the differences in your experience with other games, because I don't play any of them enough to have an idea what to expect. Truth be told, I barely touch Destiny's PvP either. Maybe it's a matter of dedicated servers, maybe Destiny players have crappy connections. Maybe it's all in your head. I dunno.

As an aside, if any of you ever get the chance to use a satellite internet connection (NOT simply a wireless connection, I mean one that ACTUALLY uses an orbiting satellite), do it. Those tend to have comparable bandwidth to a DSL line, so pretty decent. But the latency is shocking. After using that, you will understand why bandwidth is only part of the equation.

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A couple of people have suggested the problem might be latency or packet loss, so here's the info:
16 ms ping, 0 packet loss

Now, I can't directly account for bungie's servers during a match, so latency there might be higher than my ping to playstation.com, but it shouldn't be inordinately high for just me.

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I was more responding to the general idea that bandwidth was a major factor, to be clear. Don't want people to get the wrong idea about these things! But yeah, I'd agree you're probably in good shape. 16ms to anything is quite low.

Some others have suggested Destiny's matchmaking puts more weight on skill matches than low latency, which might be true. It also might account for some of the differences vs. other games, IF their matchmaking priorities are different.

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I'm concerned about Trials of Osiris. Instead of being "who is the better team" it's going to be "who got luckier with bullshit lag glitches."

Remember though, they mentioned that they will be matching us all based on the best connections for ToO. So your concern while valid, may not be as much of an issue as we currently experience it. If lag is a major cause of why you may not currently enjoy crucible, then this playlist may increase your enjoyment in PvP because now its all about skill (hopefully) and not about who has this/that networking speeds.

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I'm concerned about Trials of Osiris. Instead of being "who is the better team" it's going to be "who got luckier with bullshit lag glitches."

Remember though, they mentioned that they will be matching us all based on the best connections for ToO. So your concern while valid, may not be as much of an issue as we currently experience it. If lag is a major cause of why you may not currently enjoy crucible, then this playlist may increase your enjoyment in PvP because now its all about skill (hopefully) and not about who has this/that networking speeds.

But if you decide to form a inter-continental fireteam, that all goes out the window. :P

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uhMerica

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uhMerica

'Murica

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https://www.youtube.com/embed/AnO1pJv_B1c

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Heh. A team with Chewbaccawakka, Funkmon and I on the 360 should definitely break some networks.

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I can feel my internet clogging up just thinking about what that might be like! :)

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I can feel my internet clogging up just thinking about what that might be like! :)

The only game the knights of the banana republic took off Proffessor Chaos's fluffy minions, chewbakkawakka(-waka-waka) joined Chaos's team and it promptly exploded. Like, 3 people were kicked instantly when the game began, randoms would join for 10 seconds and then disappear, just absolute lagging madness.

It was the only game we won but it was the largest margin of victory for the night.

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I played Reach firefight with teammates in Australia, Belgium, and the UK once. It was 1 frame per minute slow.

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I played Reach firefight with teammates in Australia, Belgium, and the UK once. It was 1 frame per minute slow.

Given how Reach's Co-op netcode worked, You're probably thinking of ODST or Halo 3, but I get the gist of your post.

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I played Reach firefight with teammates in Australia, Belgium, and the UK once. It was 1 frame per minute slow.

Given how Reach's Co-op netcode worked, You're probably thinking of ODST or Halo 3, but I get the gist of your post.

Nope. It was Reach on Courtyard. Totally unplayable. It was like someone casually flipping pages in a picture book.

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Reach Firefight was just as bad as Halo 3 internet co-op. Worked ok if everyone's connection was perfect. Went to a slideshow or just plain paused if the connections weren't good.

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I played Reach firefight with teammates in Australia, Belgium, and the UK once. It was 1 frame per minute slow.

Given how Reach's Co-op netcode worked, You're probably thinking of ODST or Halo 3, but I get the gist of your post.

Reach's co-op net code (and Halo 4's code, for that matter) were largely the same "synchronous" net code model as Halo 3 & ODST, suffering the same problems :(

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I played Reach firefight with teammates in Australia, Belgium, and the UK once. It was 1 frame per minute slow.

Given how Reach's Co-op netcode worked, You're probably thinking of ODST or Halo 3, but I get the gist of your post.

Reach's co-op net code (and Halo 4's code, for that matter) were largely the same "synchronous" net code model as Halo 3 & ODST, suffering the same problems :(

Eh?

Here's what I remember:

Halo 3 + ODST: Host waits for everyone's connection to respond before advancing a frame. Result: Game is choppy, plays in "slow motion".

Reach: Client sends their controller input to the host's machine, which moves the characters, then sends the resultant game-world back to the clients, in real-time.
Result: Clients have to "anticipate" their moves, because it might be as much as a second before you see the result of your input on the screen. Game is relatively smooth otherwise.

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As weird as Destiny gets I still think it is miles better than Halo ever was. In Halo you'd just start taking damage for *somewhere* and be unable to do anything about it and then you'd eventually die... and then you'd stay dead and that would be about it. Maybe you'd get to respawn... at some point in the future... but who knows! I remember the last Halo 3 HBO game I played and one of the highlights was my Spartan floating down the river on Valhalla unable to respawn for the rest of the game because the lag had killed things for everyone.

When Destiny is faced with someone's very bad connection it still seems a good deal more capable of at least putting the enemy in the correct general area. Sometimes they walk into the wall or take no damage from hits but by that point they don't seem to be doing much damage back to you either. Plus Destiny almost never drops a game or sits on a black screen or any of the things that were fairly common even in Reach.

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I think the real problem with lag for me in destiny is that:
1) So many things can 1-shot that if someone's avatar lags behind their shots, you die before you have a chance to counter-fire.
2) So many things that can 1-shot have very scarce ammo or limited uses, so if you shoot someone who doesn't take damage, you're wasted an incredibly valuable resource.

In games where it takes more shots to kill someone or there's more plentiful OHK ammo, this kind of lag is less painful.

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In games where it takes more shots to kill someone or there's more plentiful OHK ammo, this kind of lag is less painful.

Wait, what?

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He means that say missing a sniper shot in Destiny because of lag is a big deal since you have so little sniper ammo to begin with. And getting hit by say a shotgun blast when you shouldn't because of lag is also a big deal.

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He means that say missing a sniper shot in Destiny because of lag is a big deal since you have so little sniper ammo to begin with. And getting hit by say a shotgun blast when you shouldn't because of lag is also a big deal.

I think the 'wait, what?' referred to it being more painful in one type of game than another. Where Mssr. CyberKN was saying, it sucks in every game. Yes?

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He means that say missing a sniper shot in Destiny because of lag is a big deal since you have so little sniper ammo to begin with. And getting hit by say a shotgun blast when you shouldn't because of lag is also a big deal.

I think the 'wait, what?' referred to it being more painful in one type of game than another. Where Mssr. CyberKN was saying, it sucks in every game. Yes?

The implication that games where the TTK is longer making lag less painful seems to be contradictory to the notion that lag would be less painful if there was more OHK ammo.

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He means that say missing a sniper shot in Destiny because of lag is a big deal since you have so little sniper ammo to begin with. And getting hit by say a shotgun blast when you shouldn't because of lag is also a big deal.

I think the 'wait, what?' referred to it being more painful in one type of game than another. Where Mssr. CyberKN was saying, it sucks in every game. Yes?

The implication that games where the TTK is longer making lag less painful seems to be contradictory to the notion that lag would be less painful if there was more OHK ammo.

Well, I guess a QED is in order.

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When I get taken out by The Last Word before I even know I'm being hit would seem to be worse than taking pings from a Halo Assault Rifle and even with the lag having time to turn and fight... I guess?

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When I get taken out by The Last Word before I even know I'm being hit would seem to be worse than taking pings from a Halo Assault Rifle and even with the lag having time to turn and fight... I guess?

That's not what he was saying. He was pointing out that the original statement was asking for two things that were in fact opposite:

In games where it takes more shots to kill someone or there's more plentiful OHK ammo, this kind of lag is less painful.

This is like saying "in games where ttk is higher or ttk is lower, this kind of lag is less painful". The sentiment may have some truth one way or the other, but I think it still merits a "wait, what?"

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When I get taken out by The Last Word before I even know I'm being hit would seem to be worse than taking pings from a Halo Assault Rifle and even with the lag having time to turn and fight... I guess?

That's not what he was saying. He was pointing out that the original statement was asking for two things that were in fact opposite:

In games where it takes more shots to kill someone or there's more plentiful OHK ammo, this kind of lag is less painful.

Right. But personally, I agree with Ragashingo's statement. I think 3-5 seconds is a good average TTK in online shooters, but most are much much faster then that.

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When I get taken out by The Last Word before I even know I'm being hit would seem to be worse than taking pings from a Halo Assault Rifle and even with the lag having time to turn and fight... I guess?

That's not what he was saying. He was pointing out that the original statement was asking for two things that were in fact opposite:

In games where it takes more shots to kill someone or there's more plentiful OHK ammo, this kind of lag is less painful.

Right. But personally, I agree with Ragashingo's statement. I think 3-5 seconds is a good average TTK in online shooters, but most are much much faster then that.

Damn, I edited that post like 5 times in the last 3 minutes. Sorry :/

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They're seemingly contradictory, but they generally work on opposite ends...

I don't mind a guy lagging out from behind cover if TTK is so long that I have a chance to shoot him once his avatar catches up to his bullets.

On the flip side, I don't mind lag causing me to lose a OHK shot if I have an infinite amount of OHK ammo.

But with both limited OHK ammo AND very short TTK, the lag in Destiny is the most frustrating FPS MP experience I've had since at least the original Xbox.

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Except, for some reason, Destiny keeps me hanging in the limbo a LOT more often than Halo ever did. Other than that, I completely agree with you.

Also, I, for one, thoroughly appreciate the "you both kill each other if there's lag, no matter the timeframe" aspect mentioned before. Even when I'm in the "killed after killing" side, I feel it is a lot better than Halo's "HEY! I SHOT THAT BASTARD A THOUSAND TIMES AND ONLY I DIE?!" approach.

Not that meleeing that shotgun-toting Titan to death inside his own bubble wasn't hilarious, but I felt bad for him.

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Yeah, but your internet is far far away and built out of soup cans or something, right?

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Yeah, but your internet is far far away and built out of soup cans or something, right?

Damn, that'd be a hell of an improvement.

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Not that meleeing that shotgun-toting Titan to death inside his own bubble wasn't hilarious, but I felt bad for him.

Did you really feel bad for him? :)

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Well, now I do.

I may or may not have danced on his corpse.

'>.>
<.<'

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But what happened last night was I used a golden gun shot, he took no damage, I died, and then he fired his shotgun. At no point in time did he take any damage.

And this happened 3 times over the course of 9 games. Not *that* frequent but when you're trying for 10 kills without dying, it's still way too frequent.

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