Here's a sort of fundamental problem with PvP in Destiny: The way to make new weapons in the expansions desirable for PvP is to make them better. That means faster Time to Kill, longer range, and more stability with quicker target acquisition.

Disagree. I think cooler perks, new cool looking designs, different stat arrangements, ie ROF/Stabililty/Impact, make for desirability just a much. I know we saw some new perks in the twitch feed and new designs. Also the upgrade to 331 from 300 made us all move to newer weapons (which will be going away with ascendancy). For the competitive purist where TTK is the only thing you are concerned about, yes that will determine your weapon choice. But there are many of us who choose guns for many other reasons. I personally like auto rifles, even though they aren't nearly as good in terms of TTK as they were.

I'm concerned. RIght now the game is nearly tantamount to a round of who saw who first, and I haven't had an exciting duel with someone in ages (unless you count multiple spawn-spanning sniper duels).

I've had tons of battles where I was able to either duck for cover, or completely run away if caught off guard. I've also gotten really good at throwing suppression grenades which bounce like halo grenades around corners to catch a guy who is wounded when he runs from me. :) The only primary weapons that really wreck in TTK are The Last Word, Thorn, and Red Death. If I was solely concerned with TTK, I would choose one of these weapons above all else.

Someone in an earlier thread suggested 3-5 second TTK, and I have to agree. You need time to react to being shot, find cover, and return fire. Right now I feel like "how did I die? Oh, okay, so there's a guy back there now. Great."

That's just bonkers, If I have to shoot a guy that much, I might have to reload to finish him off. Halo had such a slow TTK in comparison and I realize how much better it is to get the jump on a guy and because you positioned better, you will most likely win the battle.

Also ever been BR'd and been like, WTF? Where did that come from?

Keep in mind that I'm a player who is usually near the top of his rooms in PvP. It's becoming un-fun because all of the weapons are becoming practically OHK weapons. I'm afraid this will be getting even worse in HoW.

HoW will not only be adding more variety in terms of armors and weapons to choose from, but also their perks combinations, and with ascending old legacy weapons, I can break that old shadow price out, although I know it's not a good at it used to be. Really wish I would have kept my old Swarm.

Destiny balances weapons by decreasing impact/damage as they increase rate of fire. That won't change. New weapons will still be on that sliding scale, and they won't kill people any faster. The archetypes that are used now will continue to be the ones that are used. They will have new perks, as RR suggested, and that will lead some players to use them, while others won't.

What will happen with HoW is more diversity in appearance. Both with armor and weapons, more new weapons and more ascended weapons will mean everybody stops looking so similar. That's primarily what you'll see in the HoW weapon experience. (JK everybody will just use TLW/Thorn)

What weapons with faster TTKs came in with The Dark Below?

I mean, aside from No Land Beyond.

Here's a sort of fundamental problem with PvP in Destiny: The way to make new weapons in the expansions desirable for PvP is to make them better. That means faster Time to Kill, longer range, and more stability with quicker target acquisition. Which is a problem, since guns already have crazy fast TTKs. Less than 2 seconds in most cases, instantaneous in the case of shotguns, sniper rifle headshots, fusion rifles, and rocket launchers.

I'm concerned. RIght now the game is nearly tantamount to a round of who saw who first, and I haven't had an exciting duel with someone in ages (unless you count multiple spawn-spanning sniper duels).

Heh - I had two counter-examples happen last night - both on Shores of Time (different matches).

The first, I was behind B's heavy, sniping into the tunnel, and a guy with Thorn caught me off-guard as he came out of the rotunda. I thought i was dead, but he decided that he could burn me to death - so rather than jump up onto my platform and fight it out directly, he did the rabbit thing, popping up, taking a shot, dropping back down. I managed to kill him after 3 pops before I died myself. ;)

The second was in the same area (just outside the rotunda) - I heard a golden gun pop from the sniping area above C, while I was on the other side of the giant pillar. I managed to keep the pillar between him and me (while avoiding shots from a third guy who wasn't very good) until the gun ran out. :)

Now, granted, in both cases a better player would have destroyed me - but I guess my point is, there are plenty of not-better players. :)

I definitely understand the concern (this is always a concern in games that have regular balance changes), but they will be aware of how their game will break if they do this. No primary weapon has gotten a lower TTK than the Last Word, and I would be shocked if they ever do give a gun a lower TTK. The most they will do is release other exotic primaries that can compete with the Last Word's TTK (or possibly even nerf the Last Word).

A game like this with constant additions and updates requires nerfs as well as buffs, which they have shown they are willing to do. If at some point in the future any gun type, or even an individual gun, proves to be THE best gun for any scenario then they will, as they've shown, make appropriate balance updates. The most I would be concerned with is there may be a patch or two worth of time where a gun or gun type is overpowered, but with enough outcry they will change it.

Edit: for those curious, exxtrooper from Reddit keeps a great spreadsheet up to date on weapon stats, including theoretical TTKs.