So about those Red Bull codes [Update] (Destiny)
Looks like people who are legitimately paying for their codes are finding they've already been used. So not only are folks stealing from eeeeeevil Activision, they're stealing from innocents too.
Glad I got my code early from a legitimate source. I for one wouldn't be happy with myself if I'd gone down the other route.
Least thought out promotion since $.10 beer night.
- No text -
So about those Red Bull codes [Update]
Looks like people who are legitimately paying for their codes are finding they've already been used. So not only are folks stealing from eeeeeevil Activision, they're stealing from innocents too.
Glad I got my code early from a legitimate source. I for one wouldn't be happy with myself if I'd gone down the other route.
are you talking about people that bought red bull directly, or bought codes off a guy that bought a red bull?
I honestly don't see how you can lift the code off the can without damaging the tab. I also can't see how they could be randomly guessed, since they use numbers and consonants.
Do you have a link to what you are talking about?
reddit discussion
link to the "culprit"
So, I'm the person who did this and I wanted to explain everyone the entire situation in depth (without going too much into the actual generating of codes.)
Firstly, I would like to speak about the legal matter of this. I'm using my own system and pattern to generate these string of codes. The actual generator isn't actually affiliated to the Redbull website in anyway. The success rates of the codes aren't even 100%. Only roughly 75% of them actually work, the rest are invalid.
Ok, now let's discuss why I actually decided to do this. There's two reasons:
1: Eventually, another programmer WILL discover this method and will redeem all these codes for themselves. So the consumers won't get them regardless.
Because of how easy it is to generate these codes and input them on the website, eventually another programmer will discover my method of generating and they'll use all the codes for their own account.
By distributing the codes, at least the community are able to obtain the codes rather than one programmer obtaining all of those 18,000 codes.
But regardless of what situation occurs, whether I had distributed those codes or whether another programmer discovers my generating method. The end result is the same:
The consumers won't get their codes regardless.
2: I feel that it's unfair that players outside of the US are unable to obtain these codes.
I was giving an opportunity to non-US players to be able to obtain these codes as they literally can't purchase them. On top of that, they're actually getting charged 30% extra for The Taken King anyway, so that's some major screw over.
Hopefully these codes helped these players obtain the codes, I don't regret giving the codes to these people even if real consumers can't get them.
But again, to emphasis on the law matter. The generation of these codes are 100% legal. I created my own program to get these strings of numbers, which I'm allowed to distribtue if I will.
I haven't forced anyone to use the codes, if you use the code on the Redbull website that's a concious decision that you made with your own free will.
But anyway, like I said either the community will use the codes or one programmer will just use them all. I personally feel that it's better if the entire community use them.
I have generated 70,000 more codes which I will be giving out around Twitch streams, so if you want actual codes just keep your eyes around on the Twitch Destiny section.
In respect of this subreddit and the moderators, I will not distribute any codes here. So please don't ask me.
TLDR: If I hadn't generated the codes first and given them out the community, someone else would have generated them and used it all for themselves. So regardless, the consumer would not have their code.
link to the "culprit"
by Ragashingo 
, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:01 (3231 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
His justification is such crap. Sure, we can't control the choices of others but that doesn't mean we should do wrong just because someone else might do the same wrong thing! By doing the right thing there was a chance that someone wouldn't get their legitimately purchased code, by doing what he did he guaranteed it.
link to the "culprit"
by Vortech 
, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:08 (3231 days ago) @ Ragashingo
I especially liked the part where it's not illegal because I say it is 100% not illegal and if it is I didn't do it you did.
link to the "culprit"
by Morpheus , High Charity, Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:20 (3231 days ago) @ Vortech
He didn't want it to be illegal--therefore it isn't.
That's the way it works.
link to the "culprit"
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:43 (3231 days ago) @ Morpheus
Not saying I agree with what they are doing. But how is creating a code generator illegal? Or to a lesser extent giving away the random codes that the generator creates? Maybe I completely misunderstand how certain laws would apply to it?
Terms and Conditions.
Not saying I agree with what they are doing. But how is creating a code generator illegal? Or to a lesser extent giving away the random codes that the generator creates? Maybe I completely misunderstand how certain laws would apply to it?
There's probably some red tape written into the license on the website stating you can only submit codes from validly marked cans of red bull. I'm not going to read them, but one of you all is welcome to find it.
Edit: I guess I am going to read it, because I don't respect my own time. Relevant:
"Any attempt to undermine the legitimate operation of this Offer in any way (as determined by Red Bull in its sole and absolute discretion) may be a violation of criminal and civil laws and should such an attempt be made, Red Bull reserves the right to seek remedies and damages to the fullest extent permitted by law."
Terms and Conditions.
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:51 (3231 days ago) @ iconicbanana
Not saying I agree with what they are doing. But how is creating a code generator illegal? Or to a lesser extent giving away the random codes that the generator creates? Maybe I completely misunderstand how certain laws would apply to it?
There's probably some red tape written into the license on the website stating you can only submit codes from validly marked cans of red bull. I'm not going to read them, but one of you all is welcome to find it.Edit: I guess I am going to read it, because I don't respect my own time. Relevant:
"Any attempt to undermine the legitimate operation of this Offer in any way (as determined by Red Bull in its sole and absolute discretion) may be a violation of criminal and civil laws and should such an attempt be made, Red Bull reserves the right to seek remedies and damages to the fullest extent permitted by law."
That only applies to the person who uses those generated codes for their own gain. not the guy who wrote the program.
Foreseeable Consequences
I don't know if it applies in the US but there is some precedent for being tried for committing acts that, while not illegal, are certain or highly likely to lead to other illegal acts, and the individual can be proved to have known that in advance (if they stated "if other people use these codes that's on them, not me", for example).
First google result. Talks about negligence specifically, but the premise is the same.
Foreseeable Consequences
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, July 03, 2015, 16:12 (3231 days ago) @ someotherguy
I don't know if it applies in the US but there is some precedent for being tried for committing acts that, while not illegal, are certain or highly likely to lead to other illegal acts, and the individual can be proved to have known that in advance (if they stated "if other people use these codes that's on them, not me", for example).
First google result. Talks about negligence specifically, but the premise is the same.
That's good to read. so the break down could be this.
Creating the random code generator = not illegal
Putting it out there for others to use = foreseeable consequences that could become illegal.
Foreseeable Consequences
by Vortech , A Fourth Wheel, Friday, July 03, 2015, 17:31 (3231 days ago) @ unoudid
Required disclaimer: I am not your lawyer, nor anyone else's lawyer here and relying on my advice as legal advice would be foolhardy and the act of a madman.
Speaking generally, and not about this specific case, the law is broadly peppered with culpability for people who solicit, encourage, conspire, or otherwise contribute to illegal acts. This is hard to pin down because the theory of the crime/tort is not clear, but I would expect someone to investigate theories included, but not limited to; fraud, tortious interference with contracts/business relationships, and/or straight up theft. It also is worth mentioning that the Patriot Act (nee Freedom Act) and DMCA are broadly drafted — especially when it comes to computers and communications — and have been applied to a wide range of online activities.
Not that we will ever know as I doubt this will ever go forward under any theory. But, what do I know?
Foreseeable Consequences
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, July 03, 2015, 17:38 (3231 days ago) @ unoudid
I don't know if it applies in the US but there is some precedent for being tried for committing acts that, while not illegal, are certain or highly likely to lead to other illegal acts, and the individual can be proved to have known that in advance (if they stated "if other people use these codes that's on them, not me", for example).
First google result. Talks about negligence specifically, but the premise is the same.
That's good to read. so the break down could be this.Creating the random code generator = not illegal
Putting it out there for others to use = foreseeable consequences that could become illegal.
Yeah. He can generate all the codes for all I care. Having the entire list of codes on his screen doesn't hurt anybody. Technically sharing them doesn't hurt anybody either, but I think he bears some of the responsibility for anybody that does use the codes he gave out.
There are no damages
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There are damages.
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, July 03, 2015, 19:35 (3231 days ago) @ DreadPirateWes
Well, what kind of damages are we talking about?
Monetary damage? Attracting and retaining customers is expensive. That's why companies have marketing budgets and make commercials and do promotions. It could be argued that anyone who gets and uses one of these codes will be much less likely to buy Red Bull leading to some amount lost sales now and some amount of ongoing lost sales from whatever percentage would have tired Red Bull for the first time and came back as a repeat customer. Will this likely have any sort of noticeable impact on Red Bull's bottom line? Nah. But even one lost sale is damage.
Emotional damage? It seems likely that someone out there is going to buy a pack of Red Bull because of this promotion and be disappointed or annoyed to find their code already taken. Will the code not working have a huge, long term impact on their lives? Almost certainly not, but I'd consider annoying or disappointing someone when you don't have to a type of damage.
In the end, just because you don't ruin someone's life or bankrupt a company does not mean you haven't done some small form of damage.
Also someone is definitely getting fired.
Not that they don't deserve to get fired for a snafu of this magnitude. But it's gonna happen.
link to the "culprit"
by Claude Errera , Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:02 (3231 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
So, I'm the person who did this and I wanted to explain everyone the entire situation in depth (without going too much into the actual generating of codes.)
Firstly, I would like to speak about the legal matter of this. I'm using my own system and pattern to generate these string of codes. The actual generator isn't actually affiliated to the Redbull website in anyway. The success rates of the codes aren't even 100%. Only roughly 75% of them actually work, the rest are invalid.
Ok, now let's discuss why I actually decided to do this. There's two reasons:
1: Eventually, another programmer WILL discover this method and will redeem all these codes for themselves. So the consumers won't get them regardless.
Because of how easy it is to generate these codes and input them on the website, eventually another programmer will discover my method of generating and they'll use all the codes for their own account.
By distributing the codes, at least the community are able to obtain the codes rather than one programmer obtaining all of those 18,000 codes.
But regardless of what situation occurs, whether I had distributed those codes or whether another programmer discovers my generating method. The end result is the same:
The consumers won't get their codes regardless.
2: I feel that it's unfair that players outside of the US are unable to obtain these codes.
I was giving an opportunity to non-US players to be able to obtain these codes as they literally can't purchase them. On top of that, they're actually getting charged 30% extra for The Taken King anyway, so that's some major screw over.
Hopefully these codes helped these players obtain the codes, I don't regret giving the codes to these people even if real consumers can't get them.
But again, to emphasis on the law matter. The generation of these codes are 100% legal. I created my own program to get these strings of numbers, which I'm allowed to distribtue if I will.
I haven't forced anyone to use the codes, if you use the code on the Redbull website that's a concious decision that you made with your own free will.
But anyway, like I said either the community will use the codes or one programmer will just use them all. I personally feel that it's better if the entire community use them.
I have generated 70,000 more codes which I will be giving out around Twitch streams, so if you want actual codes just keep your eyes around on the Twitch Destiny section.
In respect of this subreddit and the moderators, I will not distribute any codes here. So please don't ask me.
TLDR: If I hadn't generated the codes first and given them out the community, someone else would have generated them and used it all for themselves. So regardless, the consumer would not have their code.
Wow.
When this was a simplified code, one that I didn't think could possibly be used on actual cans but was somehow working on the Red Bull site, that was one thing... this is something else.
I think I'm more angry at Red Bull, though, for building such a shoddy system. :(
As a guy who has had to write a system that generates codes that users have to type in themselves... there is no good system for that. Any smallish size code that can be typed by any random joe of the street, anonymously, is going to have some problems. Additionally, this was printed on cans, so it had to be worked out with whatever the tech was that printed the cans.
So, while it sucks, I can totally understand why it was done the way it was done.
All that said, plenty could have been done to stop mass redemption of codes. A redemption limit of even 1 per day or so would have gone a long way.
STOP THE PRESSES (Thread de-rail)
by ZackDark , Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:58 (3231 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
On top of that, they're actually getting charged 30% extra for The Taken King anyway
I'm what now?
STOP THE PRESSES (Thread de-rail)
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, July 03, 2015, 15:59 (3231 days ago) @ ZackDark
On top of that, they're actually getting charged 30% extra for The Taken King anyway
I'm what now?
UK Prices are higher than the US I believe
Phew
by ZackDark , Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, July 03, 2015, 16:02 (3231 days ago) @ unoudid
I thought it was something I hadn't heard of about every non-US market.
UK prices are usually the same numeric value as US prices, but in pounds. It's clearly more expensive, but I think they make more money there too, so it kind of balances out?
For reference: Fallout 4 is currently listed on Amazon UK for £42.85.
TTK standalone is £40.
Our minimum wage is higher
But everything is more expensive, so it about evens out.
TTK is an odd case in that games usually don't follow the $=£ rule that electrical goods do (they're usually $60, £40-45), but it's not unheard of.
In other news - need advise
How do I actually purchase TTK?
Seems sites have it up for the US for $20 for the digital upgrade (for sweet gains) but when ever I ask in game they say they have no price and will have it on release in September. (I'm UK BTW)
Can I buy it for $20 off US site and still DL the digital upgrade (with sweet gains) in UK?
In other news - need advise
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Friday, July 03, 2015, 21:05 (3231 days ago) @ Raflection
How do I actually purchase TTK?
Seems sites have it up for the US for $20 for the digital upgrade (for sweet gains) but when ever I ask in game they say they have no price and will have it on release in September. (I'm UK BTW)
Can I buy it for $20 off US site and still DL the digital upgrade (with sweet gains) in UK?
Are you talking about the actual expansion? If you have any console but 360 you can buy it from the respective digital stores for $40 (not $20 anywhere). You can't buy it anywhere else digitally (well except on Amazon since they made a deal with Sony to sell digital purchases).
what you talking 'bout
Any console other than 360?? What do you mean?
Also the digital upgrade for $20 was something to do with players kicking off about having to repurchase the whole game again ? Maybe that's TTK for $40 and collectors edition for $20?
what you talking 'bout
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Friday, July 03, 2015, 21:12 (3231 days ago) @ Raflection
Any console other than 360?? What do you mean?
360 does not have the digital purchase available (this is pretty common on 360, especially for DLC) in the Xbox store. The other three consoles do. 360 will have it available closer to release.
Also the digital upgrade for $20 was something to do with players kicking off about having to repurchase the whole game again ? Maybe that's TTK for $40 and collectors edition for $20?
You guessed it, TTK alone for $40, $20 for the stuff from the digital collector's edition without having to rebuy the actual game and previous expansions.
what you talking 'bout
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, July 03, 2015, 21:12 (3231 days ago) @ Raflection
Not sure about the 360, but yes, TTK cost a minimum of $40. If you want the special new emotes, shaders, and class items that come with the more expensive editions you can order them separately for $20 but I don't think those extras are actually for sell yet on any platform.
need some clarification
Do we have any sources for this 360 business?
What does this mean for me buying TTK,I run 360
Will I still get the exclusive year 1 content? Yes I meet the criteria, but if I am purchasing TTK later than any other console?
need some clarification
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Friday, July 03, 2015, 21:24 (3231 days ago) @ Raflection
Do we have any sources for this 360 business?
Sure, go to xbox.com and search for The Taken King. It will be available for purchase on the XB1 but not the 360. If you go to Playstation's store it's available for PS3 and PS4 (though you have to be logged in with an account that owns Destiny and the first two expansions to see the pre-order option).
What does this mean for me buying TTK,I run 360
You just have to wait for it, worst case scenario you have to buy it ON 9/15/2015
Will I still get the exclusive year 1 content? Yes I meet the criteria, but if I am purchasing TTK later than any other console?
Doesn't matter, you just have to buy The Taken King before February of next year:
"*To be eligible to receive the VIP rewards, players will need to have at least one Light Level 30 character or own both Expansion I and Expansion II on or before 08/31/15 AND purchase and play The Taken King on or before 02/01/16."
yay! irrational worries have now gone
*PHEW*
kinda sucks I can't preorder though :/
I just don't want to miss out some sweet exclusive gains
I'm also dreading when those PS exclusive strikes, maps and guns coming to Xbox. I really don't like them ._.
But if I get hawkmoon on Xbox before Cody on PS I'll die laughing.
yay! irrational worries have now gone
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Saturday, July 04, 2015, 15:59 (3230 days ago) @ Raflection
I'm also dreading when those PS exclusive strikes, maps and guns coming to Xbox. I really don't like them ._.
Yeah the strikes are underwhelming, but remember we are going to get reworked versions of them! (I'm hoping those are the ones that get put in the Weekly rotations). I'm surprised you don't like the guns though! Both Hawkmoon and 4th Horseman are awesome!
PS guns
I just don't like the way they are pretty much the best guns in game and players who have them all but rely on them for everything
I like having many good guns for many situations.
Plus I don't use hand cannons or shotguns all that much :D
Understandable then!
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Saturday, July 04, 2015, 16:36 (3230 days ago) @ Raflection
- No text -
I just don't like the way they are pretty much the best guns in game and players who have them all but rely on them for everything
I wouldn't go that far...
Hawkmoon is one of the top hand cannons for PvP, but it is outclassed by plenty of weapons for PvE. Monte Carlo is beautiful and fun to use, but we all know the troubles Auto Rifles face with the current balance levels. And Fourth Horesman is very cool in specific situations, but I rarely see anyone using it over the more versatile exotics.
PS guns
I mainly PvP and hawkmoon seems to be at the top of everyone's list.
Also, yes Monte Carlo is beautiful and is really the only gun I want
I mainly PvP and hawkmoon seems to be at the top of everyone's list.
Also, yes Monte Carlo is beautiful and is really the only gun I want
Yeah, there certainly was a time when Hawkmoon was THE gun for PvP, but that really isn't the case anymore. It's still great, but I think most would agree that Thorn outclasses it at the moment. Last Word can also be better at certain ranges, thanks to its insanely high rate of fire. I've been using Pulse Rifles lately, and doing better than I've ever done with Hawkmoon. The Messanger, Red Death, Bad Juju, Three Little Words, Spare Change.25... these and several others can go toe to toe with Hawkmoon in many situations :)
Then allow me to recommend my first exotic:Monte Carlo. Like a sweet song on the wind: say it out loud and feel the stress leave your body:
Monte Carlo!
This is funny.
I'll buy a can eventually and if the code doesn't work, I'll just email them until they give me a functioning one.
Still sucks that people are stealing codes, but people are going to be people.
"People suck" hardly justifies it
People are stealing content. It's shitty that this content is being gated, but that doesn't make it okay to sneak past the gate and help yourself. Some people will lose out because their code doesn't work and they don't know to email Red Bull.
Is that their fault for not knowing? Hell no.
Is it ActiBull's fault for making the code so easily cracksnle? Maybe partly.
Or is it the fault of the person using a code they obtained illegitimately to obtain content they didn't pay for and had no right to access? Yeah, I'd say it's their fault.
"People suck" hardly justifies it
I'm not endorsing the behavior in any way, just stating that I'm not surprised it is happening.
"People suck" hardly justifies it
by cheapLEY , Friday, July 03, 2015, 17:47 (3231 days ago) @ ProbablyLast
I'm not endorsing the behavior in any way, just stating that I'm not surprised it is happening.
Sums up my thoughts exactly. But also, it's free four months after TTK drops, so I'm content with just waiting and not worrying about it.
It's pretty funny in a really sad way
by Avateur , Friday, July 03, 2015, 17:52 (3231 days ago) @ ProbablyLast
Now that we know that Red Bull's system is totally stupid easy to crack, and considering all of the other bad PR hitting Destiny and Activision lately, I'm thinking Activision should somehow try to find a way to scrap the whole thing and release it day one to everyone. But of course that won't happen what with contracts and all, so oh well.
This entire thing is extremely unfortunate, especially for the people doing the actual purchasing of the Red Bull. I hope Red Bull does the right thing and updates the website with a contact number or email in the event that a code someone got from a purchased can doesn't work. No idea how they'd go about verifying that the code isn't one of the generated one, but they gotta try and make this right somehow for actual purchasers, right?
It's pretty funny in a really sad way
by Vortech , A Fourth Wheel, Friday, July 03, 2015, 17:58 (3231 days ago) @ Avateur
This entire thing is extremely unfortunate, especially for the people doing the actual purchasing of the Red Bull. I hope Red Bull does the right thing and updates the website with a contact number or email in the event that a code someone got from a purchased can doesn't work. No idea how they'd go about verifying that the code isn't one of the generated one, but they gotta try and make this right somehow for actual purchasers, right?
I think that contact info is already on the redeem page. it is on the site somewhere.
It costs them zero dollars and zero cents to approve a code. The proof they require from their aggrieved customers regarding their poorly designed redemption system should be commensurate with that cost.
Take a picture of the actual can & code as proof?
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, July 03, 2015, 18:11 (3231 days ago) @ Avateur
Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested in hearing anyone's ideas on how you'd run this kind of buy in stores unlock digital items promotion without it being hackable. Even super complex codes have to follow some sort of pattern...
Take a picture of the actual can & code as proof?
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Friday, July 03, 2015, 21:08 (3231 days ago) @ Ragashingo
Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested in hearing anyone's ideas on how you'd run this kind of buy in stores unlock digital items promotion without it being hackable. Even super complex codes have to follow some sort of pattern...
Most companies use longer codes, for every digit you add you increase the amount of possible codes by a significant margin and the number of valid codes is actually a small percentage the possible codes making it less likely that someone can guess a code.
They have a process for recovering your stuff from the code already used, but you have to have a picture of the code... However...I constantly get errors because it renames all your photo uploads to names it won't accept.
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/01uC2Qsl.jpg)
Victim --->
by Speedracer513 , Dallas, Texas, Friday, July 03, 2015, 20:26 (3231 days ago) @ Funkmon
I finally got around to putting in the code from the can I bought earlier this week. Of course it had already been redeemed. :-/
I submitted a claim through the process you just mentioned and didn't have any trouble attaching the image - although that is probably because I did it on a computer instead of a smartphone.