I once got a triple with it in ToO when I was last man standing.

I am still praying for bungie to bring it back.
Knuckle head radar + P&T = forever radar

Now that I think about it, another potential solution for Destiny would be to increase sniper scope ranges. If your scope zooms you way in, it increases the tunnel vision effect and makes it more difficult to track moving targets or engage enemies that are within primary weapon range. It would help mitigate the "run and gun" snipers that are so deadly in Destiny.

You've got to think about how that will affect PvE. These things are so hard because weapons can be used in both PvP and PvE. I'd hate longer zooms in PvE.

I wonder what would happen if Destiny 2 simply had separate PvP and PvE weapons, sequestering them to their respective activities.

All good points. I think Titanfall managed to avoid sniper problems because of the player's speed and movement abilities. Simply hitting a target with a sniper rifle is a lot more challenging in that game.

Now that I think about it, another potential solution for Destiny would be to increase sniper scope ranges. If your scope zooms you way in, it increases the tunnel vision effect and makes it more difficult to track moving targets or engage enemies that are within primary weapon range. It would help mitigate the "run and gun" snipers that are so deadly in Destiny.

I've thought of this as well. It definitely would narrow the sight lines. It would also definitely eliminate sniper "camping" where snipers are constantly zoomed down a sight line.

At the very least, it would add a significant risk for players who want to camp hard-scoped down a sight line.

Can snipers get the perk that gives you radar in ADS? Because that would make the hard-scoping far less risky

Patience and Time has it, but I've never seen it on another sniper, personally.

Oops. Wrong P&T.

It's actually a decent sniper, but I've never been killed by it in Crucible.

All good points. I think Titanfall managed to avoid sniper problems because of the player's speed and movement abilities. Simply hitting a target with a sniper rifle is a lot more challenging in that game.

Now that I think about it, another potential solution for Destiny would be to increase sniper scope ranges. If your scope zooms you way in, it increases the tunnel vision effect and makes it more difficult to track moving targets or engage enemies that are within primary weapon range. It would help mitigate the "run and gun" snipers that are so deadly in Destiny.

I've thought of this as well. It definitely would narrow the sight lines. It would also definitely eliminate sniper "camping" where snipers are constantly zoomed down a sight line.

At the very least, it would add a significant risk for players who want to camp hard-scoped down a sight line.

Can snipers get the perk that gives you radar in ADS? Because that would make the hard-scoping far less risky

All good points. I think Titanfall managed to avoid sniper problems because of the player's speed and movement abilities. Simply hitting a target with a sniper rifle is a lot more challenging in that game.

Now that I think about it, another potential solution for Destiny would be to increase sniper scope ranges. If your scope zooms you way in, it increases the tunnel vision effect and makes it more difficult to track moving targets or engage enemies that are within primary weapon range. It would help mitigate the "run and gun" snipers that are so deadly in Destiny.

I've thought of this as well. It definitely would narrow the sight lines. It would also definitely eliminate sniper "camping" where snipers are constantly zoomed down a sight line.

At the very least, it would add a significant risk for players who want to camp hard-scoped down a sight line.

All good points. I think Titanfall managed to avoid sniper problems because of the player's speed and movement abilities. Simply hitting a target with a sniper rifle is a lot more challenging in that game.

Now that I think about it, another potential solution for Destiny would be to increase sniper scope ranges. If your scope zooms you way in, it increases the tunnel vision effect and makes it more difficult to track moving targets or engage enemies that are within primary weapon range. It would help mitigate the "run and gun" snipers that are so deadly in Destiny.

I've thought of this as well. It definitely would narrow the sight lines. It would also definitely eliminate sniper "camping" where snipers are constantly zoomed down a sight line.

Battlefield/Titanfall/COD made snipers and shotguns primaries, but put big limits on them. I don't think any of those systems got the balance right either, but I felt that Battlefield came the closest.

Bungie's model requires the secondary weapons to be dominant in their areas of expertise. The problem has been that the range of shotguns combined with the player speed due to jump/run/slide combos made them dominant in most map encounters, especially in objective based modes.

Bungie has dramatically limited the range of shotguns, and reduced blink which is the worst jump offender, but there is nothing they can really do about snipers, so they will always seem cheap. The best they could do is limit the aim assist at medium to short range, but the zoom on most scopes already makes those ranges difficult to be effective in anyway.

In theory, if fusion rifles weren't so hard to use they would push snipers back to long range, but a mid range one hit kill weapon caused major issues, if anyone remembers the glory days of Plan C and Pocket Infinity.

Battlefield tries to differentiate shotguns by limiting the long range and the number of pellets, so slower firing guns tend to be easier to hit with and get a single kill, while fast firing or full auto ones tend to require two to three hits to kill, even at close range. Likewise the faster firing snipers do less damage, so you need two to three body shots for a kill.

COD is similar, but has faster firing snipers with no sniper glint, and of course the auto aim no scope glitch so you can headshot with ease. What saves COD is the maps tend to be cluttered and people move very fast, so it is difficult to lock down areas.

Titanfall fell more into the classic ranges, with the weapons clearly at an advantage in their range bands, and little options for players other then choosing a different weapon or scope. Easy to balance but utterly generic.

I think the best bungie could do is add more flinch to snipers when they are ADS, and perhaps have bullets slow someone rushing with a shotgun. The charge time on fusion rifles was their balance, but the non-hitscan nature has been added difficulty since the 2nd patch or so.

All good points. I think Titanfall managed to avoid sniper problems because of the player's speed and movement abilities. Simply hitting a target with a sniper rifle is a lot more challenging in that game.

Now that I think about it, another potential solution for Destiny would be to increase sniper scope ranges. If your scope zooms you way in, it increases the tunnel vision effect and makes it more difficult to track moving targets or engage enemies that are within primary weapon range. It would help mitigate the "run and gun" snipers that are so deadly in Destiny.

Bungie's model requires the secondary weapons to be dominant in their areas of expertise. The problem has been that the range of shotguns combined with the player speed due to jump/run/slide combos made them dominant in most map encounters, especially in objective based modes.

Bungie has dramatically limited the range of shotguns, and reduced blink which is the worst jump offender, but there is nothing they can really do about snipers, so they will always seem cheap. The best they could do is limit the aim assist at medium to short range, but the zoom on most scopes already makes those ranges difficult to be effective in anyway.

In theory, if fusion rifles weren't so hard to use they would push snipers back to long range, but a mid range one hit kill weapon caused major issues, if anyone remembers the glory days of Plan C and Pocket Infinity.

Battlefield tries to differentiate shotguns by limiting the long range and the number of pellets, so slower firing guns tend to be easier to hit with and get a single kill, while fast firing or full auto ones tend to require two to three hits to kill, even at close range. Likewise the faster firing snipers do less damage, so you need two to three body shots for a kill.

COD is similar, but has faster firing snipers with no sniper glint, and of course the auto aim no scope glitch so you can headshot with ease. What saves COD is the maps tend to be cluttered and people move very fast, so it is difficult to lock down areas.

Titanfall fell more into the classic ranges, with the weapons clearly at an advantage in their range bands, and little options for players other then choosing a different weapon or scope. Easy to balance but utterly generic.

I think the best bungie could do is add more flinch to snipers when they are ADS, and perhaps have bullets slow someone rushing with a shotgun. The charge time on fusion rifles was their balance, but the non-hitscan nature has been added difficulty since the 2nd patch or so.

Similar to the way CoD balances certain weapons by making them affect the player's base stats (such as having a super awesome and powerful gun slow down the player's movements speed), I could see some potential in giving Fusion Rifles some kind of bonus effect other than pure damage to help them out.

I feel like Bungie has painted themselves into a bit of a corner with this system. The only way to make it remotely fair is to make sure everyone has it all the time, or make it extremely limited like Heavy ammo.

I almost suggested this, but then what about side arms & fusion rifles? I feel that my sniper ammo goes a long way. I can use a sniper almost all game exclusively. The same (almost) goes with shotgun ammo. I will run out if I'm exclusively running shottys & we're not controlling most/all of the secondary ammo crates. In fact, when running shottys I'm very aware of when secondary ammo drops and will try to deny the opposing team their secondary so I can shoot them in the face with it.

I would like Bungie to take a look at making secondary ammo more scarce & more difficult for 1 team to hog it all.

The speed of the game is really what helped keep snipers at bay way back when, and the ability to rapidly close distances. That has been rendered continually less effective as time goes on.

On the flip side, playing a 6v6 game mode on that same map can be a nightmare if you go up against a team of strong snipers, because 5 or 6 players working together can absolutely "shut down" the entire map with a network of sniper fire. It can be infuriating to go up against.

I think people are really good now at knowing where head level is, and already having their cursor there ready to go.

Let's talk about blink and shotgun and the like:

I think blink and shotgun is definitely a counter to sniping, however it was really strong close up. It definitely needed a bit of a nerf, but maybe not so much. What needed to happen was that Fusion Rifles be strengthened so that they are the counter to blinking in from mid range. Rock paper scissors:

Blink Shotgun beats sniper.
Sniper beats fusion rifle
Fusion rifle beats blink shotgun

Maybe I'm crazy, but stick with me for a moment.

Remember in Halo CE multiplayer the way Plasma weapons were generally less effective than ballistics in terms of time-to-kill and range, but had the bonus effect of slowing the target's movement speed as they took damage?

What if something like that got applied to Fusion Rifles?

Bungie clearly has a tough time getting FRs in the right place in terms of damage, range, accuracy, etc. Getting 1-shot killed by someone who pops out of cover 50 feet away the moment their shot is charged in no fun. But shorten the range and suddenly FRs can't compete with shotguns. So what if FRs kept their current stats, but had a slight bonus effect applied to them? Such as slowing movement speed, or delaying shield regen... something to counter the effectiveness of rushing shotgunners without making them devastatingly powerful in other situations?

Let's talk about blink and shotgun and the like:

I think blink and shotgun is definitely a counter to sniping, however it was really strong close up. It definitely needed a bit of a nerf, but maybe not so much. What needed to happen was that Fusion Rifles be strengthened so that they are the counter to blinking in from mid range. Rock paper scissors:

Blink Shotgun beats sniper.
Sniper beats fusion rifle
Fusion rifle beats blink shotgun

Something like that. Then design maps so that snipers are never completely safe, and you're golden. If a team is able to hold down a map such that their snipers ARE safe, then they deserve the huge advantage that brings.

I agree with the rock paper scissors. I think that if you want to try and fight rock with scissors, you are going to have be REALLY good to do that.

Also, Blink shotgun is a great counter to Sniper. However Titans are screwed.

I know that was being used as an example, but I still love to point it out because I hate blink shotgun as a Titan