Everything the previous two said is true, but I think it's worth noting that even if you do not push the stick AT ALL on that jump, you still don't make it. There seems to be a bug and/or undocumented behavior where once you have the pitch control perk enabled, it automatically pitches forward a bit or something on that Mars jump. Consequently, you MUST pull back slightly in order to get enough height to make it across. Why it only affects that one jump, I don't know.

Maybe it affects ALL jumps, but that's the only one that's long enough to see the effect? (That is: it's a pretty minor change. I'll agree with you that it's there; the day I unlocked that perk, I crashed two or three times until I figured out that I NEEDED to pull back to make it. But it took 2 or 3 times, instead of 1, because I couldn't really SEE the difference, outside of the fact that I was crashing. :) )

I agree, it doesn't have to be e-Sport level, but it shouldn't allow for cheating. But to me that just sounds like they are saying "we care more about adding more content than making the PvP experience fair" So what is the point of adding more content to PvP if it's not even fun to play?

Because it's a box to tick and helps sell games.

I'm not trying to be cynical, but seriously, a game that exists in the space Destiny does won't sell as well without PvP.

Lag-switching is definitely a thing but it seems like now that the knowledge is out in the world, people yell it when ANY latency-related things happen at all. Like lag can't just be a thing on its own, without intentional manipulation.

(As an aside, I've found that pulling back right as I enter that jump, then pushing forward halfway to the landing, I can actually pass people who entered the jump before me before we land. Not paying attention, though, will get you killed. :) )

I thought that helmet perk would be stupid when I first read it, but it's invaluable. And you're right about how you hold the stick before you even enter the jump. It absolutely changes your launch trajectory out the other side, and actually effects height more than what you do mid jump, though you can certainly effect your height mid jump. Same is true of the shorter Venus jump after the short cut, I've just about hit the top of the arch by accidentally holding the stick back.

I swear that thing always throws me short and turns my 1st place into last when I slide off the edge of the cliff even when I hit it at full speed.

That's almost certainly whatever gear you're wearing that gives you the Air Control perk. (Pitch forward to fall faster, pitch backward to fall slower.) On flat ground, pushing the stick forward tends to keep your speed at max - but in the air, with that perk active, pushing forward makes you miss that jump. ;)

(As an aside, I've found that pulling back right as I enter that jump, then pushing forward halfway to the landing, I can actually pass people who entered the jump before me before we land. Not paying attention, though, will get you killed. :) )

I've seen Destiny do some weird stuff just based ion DBOers with Internet known to be terrible. ShedNet and for a while ChewieNet were epically disruptive to Crucible matches for a while. Claiming cheating and lag switching with proof that consists of not much more that what one can observe from normal (if extreme) lag just doesn't cut it for me.

The big exception, however, is in Trials of Osiris, which is supposed to prioritize “connection quality” above all else (at least according to what we were told last year). Given that foundation, the number of red-bar opponents we have encountered in the last couple weeks on both PS4 and XB1 is surprising. And the number of times we’ve solidly won the first two rounds and then had opponents “conveniently” become red-bar (and un-damageable) until the end is just astonishing.

The cards fall one of two ways: If these are legitimate connection quality problems, then the Matchmaking system is not doing its job. And if the Matchmaking system is doing its job, then these opponents are specifically causing networking disruptions to gain an advantage. Either way, there’s something that needs fixing.

On top of it all, the new Trials matching system that attempts to match you against similarly-performing teams means that the further along you are on your Card, the more likely you are to run into cheaters. So that’s fun. :-\

The front/back end thing seems somewhat plausible too, though I think odd lag spikes can cause problems too. One too many times I've pulled apart from people and missed a gate because some invisible something bumped into me.

Instead of making it impossible for cheaters to cheat, they allow it and then bring out the ban hammer.

To be fair, it sounds like the route Bungie went makes for a better and more fair game if not one cheats.

Sort of... but if people just have normal lag, it looks (and feels) like cheating in the bungie game, whereas it actively hampers the lagger in the CoD game.

The alternative (used by esport games) is inherently less fair, but makes it harder to cheat.

I think you mean *more* fair, right?

I'm not sure I can blame Bungie for designing a system that is better if everyone is a good person. Perhaps they thought they could catch people faster/better than they currently do. Perhaps they are banning ten thousand people per day for cheating. Who knows...

Again, I dispute that it's better, ever. It's prettier, but when your bullets aren't actually hitting what you're aiming at because what you're aiming at may not be there, you have a problem. Cheating makes it obvious, but even average latency can cause you to miss what appeared to be a dead on headshot.

I still don't buy that it's as simple as you make it sound

It's not simple at all. I mean, the theory behind it is, but to implement would be a complete and total overhaul of their existing netcode. It's like writing half of the game over again.

SRL races seem to be Crucible matches yet have fully functional AI enemies. Crucible matches can have their scripting hang temporarily when a player exits (example: you can't pick up heavy ammo or motion sensing doors won't trigger) which seems a lot like the scripting renegotiation described by Bungie that happens when your host leaves your world bubble during Patrol.

Yess.... They're borrowing the same net code back and forth. It's really good for the purposes of PvE, but really poor for the purposes of PvP. The two types of game mode have very different requirements.

I also question how much lag switching is really going on. I've seen Destiny do some weird stuff just based ion DBOers with Internet known to be terrible. ShedNet and for a while ChewieNet were epically disruptive to Crucible matches for a while. Claiming cheating and lag switching with proof that consists of not much more that what one can observe from normal (if extreme) lag just doesn't cut it for me.

Cheating aside, normal or extreme lag would behave completely differently in a CoD pvp environment.

Does legitimate lag and even cheaters occur and cause problems? Sure. But all in all Destiny does a much better job than say the past Halos where you'd see no enemies, take random damage from seemingly impossible directions, then keel over for no reason and watch your body drift down a river for three minutes before the entire match went to another minute of the dreaded black screen before the finally getting around to ending.

I mean, this is very similar to my recent experiences with Destiny's PvP. I've been rocketed by a ghost, shotgunned through walls, and suddenly died when there was no one near me, no shot fired, no sound effect, and the "death cam" showed a dead body halfway across the map (with lots of geometry between us).

It seems I'm always the one bouncing off of opponents, yet they never seem to be moved by my sparrow. I suspect my opponents really are being bounced around, but I don't see it because of the netcode & latency, they probably don't see me getting jostled by them either.

We could test that theory by recording and analyzing a few DBO SRL matches.

I also question how much lag switching is really going on. I've seen Destiny do some weird stuff just based ion DBOers with Internet known to be terrible. ShedNet and for a while ChewieNet were epically disruptive to Crucible matches for a while. Claiming cheating and lag switching with proof that consists of not much more that what one can observe from normal (if extreme) lag just doesn't cut it for me.

Does legitimate lag and even cheaters occur and cause problems? Sure. But all in all Destiny does a much better job than say the past Halos where you'd see no enemies, take random damage from seemingly impossible directions, then keel over for no reason and watch your body drift down a river for three minutes before the entire match went to another minute of the dreaded black screen before the finally getting around to ending.