If it turns out that 3 runs per character is the new normal... well in theory I don't like that at all. But lately it's been so hard to even convince 2 others to run it with me, that I'm lucky to get 2 or 3 runs in total anyway.

I do it once (occasionally twice) a week. I feel no drive to complete it every week on every character.

That last bit's beside the point, though; I think my experience is closer to average than yours is. I'm not even sure HOW to get more than 90k/run - as far as I've been able to determine, a fixed number of enemies come out at fixed intervals, based on the boss's health. Killing most of them with whatever the bonus of the week is will get you close to 45k, maybe. You can add to that by ensuring that everyone gets a shot in on every baddie, using assists to bolster the score... but that's really hard to do in the heat of battle. (Usually, it ends up with someone dying.)

And I've done the runs with a bunch of different groups - NOBODY I've played with knew techniques that got us over 50k, much less over 90.

I just think your expectations for fun are too high, if it's not fun at less than 90k/run.

90k in 1 Run--All Easy, (I'm guessing) no fun.
90k in 2 runs--less easy, moderate amount of fun?
90k in 3 runs--not easy, not fun.

Multiply that by three and it gets lest magical each time, especially considering they're all the same modifiers/enemies/bosses each run. Not that there's any thing wrong with that, but when you have to formulate a specific strategy so often and avoid deviating from it at all costs, it becomes less fun each time, especially if you have to do more runs, or if the LFG's you find totally suck. Or if you ha--

...

nevermindforgetisaidanything!

I forgot who I said this to, but it was before April. I basically reiterated how much I love (Year 1) Prison of Elders, because there was no hardcore elements to think about, and virtually no communication needed. Just kill, kill, kill!

Yes, I'm aware Challenge of the Elders shouldn't be just that. But I also feel that it might be better to cut down the infractions a bit--so that most teams shouldn't "have to" do nine runs of CoE per week.

Maybe you're going off of ZackDark's comment about them getting tired of 100K+ point runs, but I don't think he really meant that Bungie thought the players were doing something wrong. Just that the Sigil wasn't meant to be completed in one run.

But yeah, I kind of agree with you. They clearly didn't put much thought into Varikis' impatience, since it used to be an extremely low amount of points.

I went looking through the Archives, and the heavy point penalty makes even less sense now. A couple of the updates specifically use the word "reward"--meaning pride and/or positive impressions from Bungie upon these players. None of them specify what the reward is(let's just assume it's an emblem for placeholder), but those top three teams get it, and no one else does. If Bungie didn't want us getting 90K+ at once, why plaster their names at the end of each update and give them rewards as well?

That's like praising a dog for pooping in your bed until he's trained to do it, then scolding him after it becomes routine.

While Destiny's shooting game is pretty damn good, abilities are what make Destiny really, really fun. Not having abilities is an absolute drag.

This past nightfall was just painful because of how slowly abilities came back.

But it requires more coordination than I'm willing to put in. And three runs gets boring, and I don't play frequently enough to just do it once per day I play.

That's fair. For me three runs isn't a big deal as I usually end up running it 4 or 5 times depending on which of my friends need help. CoE is a lot faster than PoE 41, and I really, really enjoy the friendly competition and optimization for points gathering.

I understand why and it's probably a good change, but that tiny little loot thing helped my desire.

I'd wager it's not going to be too noticeable, and probably will not take you past needing 3 runs to complete. 2 runs should still be doable, albeit with perhaps a tad more aggression and coordination.

Can we get someone to do the math on TTK for the various AR's now? curious as to which archetype will come out ahead.

Well, neither medium nor slow RoF ARs got a buff, so they're still going to be well behind the pulse rifles in general, with the exception of a "spinning up" spec'd Suros Regime.

I think the nerf to High RoF ARs will bring them more in line with the medium ARs, and again render them just shy of the TTK of a high RoF pulse.

When can a Striker kill with one melee? At best I thought it brought an enemy to basically no health?

I was of this belief as well. And I play Titans a lot.

I get OHK'd by "stormfist overcharge" once every few games. I think this is the "melee hits proc AoE damage" perk but I'm not actually sure. It definitely OHKs my 7 armor gunslinger though.

None of the Striker mellee abilities do extra damage above the normal overcharge amount. So it should be the same all around.

However, I want to say you can get "precision" damage on melee hits. Just like the golden gun can. It doesn't show it, but it definitely does more damage. I could also be wrong and it's something else.

I can confirm that melees get precision hits. I do find it *much* easier with a hunter to line those up, but I also have hundreds more hours of hunter playtime than striker or warlock.

However, I want to say you can get "precision" damage on melee hits. Just like the golden gun can. It doesn't show it, but it definitely does more damage. I could also be wrong and it's something else.

You know, I sometimes get that impression too. I'm sure I've had Fallen trigger the "headshot kill" animation a few times with melee and that most of these times I wasn't expecting to kill them.