I'm always wishing Patrol was more challenging and more rewarding. The Dreadnaught, too, was a small step in the right direction with its fairly large variety of interesting little activities and challenges. I expect even more of that in Rise of Iron, but it really need to go further than disconnected challenges, no matter how novel they are. I want direct story integration, where the Patrol spaces evolve along with the plot, instead of months or years later when expansions give us Patrol updates...

The thing about making patrol start changing depending on your progress is that then you have to join people into a patrol space based on that. Suddenly you have to categorize players into 100+ groups based on their progress. Also that means you will have to have that many map spaces depending on players progress. That could get ugly fast. But maybe not? maybe it's just too much work right now for Bungie to handle. Sure it's easy to say that they should have done it from the get go, but I'm more worried about what they can do from here on out.

The better way to do it, I think, would be to add more high-level patrol activities that require an "opt-in" approach. The Dreadnought had some stuff along these lines (activating the launch codes, for example). The problem with the Dreadnought is it became clear very quickly that none of the activities or secrets would reward high-level players with anything they could use.

I think it would be great to be able to go into patrol alone or with a fireteam and summon bosses or start little mini questlines that reward a nightfall-tier drop.

So.... basically you want more Court of Oryx?

Because that has both a mini quest line and a nightfall-tier drops

I was thinking more along the lines of the multi-step activities that lead you around the Dreadnought to several locations and culminate in a sort of boss battle. Court of Oryx is fine, but it's also the least interesting part of the Dreadnought to me.

I'm always wishing Patrol was more challenging and more rewarding. The Dreadnaught, too, was a small step in the right direction with its fairly large variety of interesting little activities and challenges. I expect even more of that in Rise of Iron, but it really need to go further than disconnected challenges, no matter how novel they are. I want direct story integration, where the Patrol spaces evolve along with the plot, instead of months or years later when expansions give us Patrol updates...

The thing about making patrol start changing depending on your progress is that then you have to join people into a patrol space based on that. Suddenly you have to categorize players into 100+ groups based on their progress. Also that means you will have to have that many map spaces depending on players progress. That could get ugly fast. But maybe not? maybe it's just too much work right now for Bungie to handle. Sure it's easy to say that they should have done it from the get go, but I'm more worried about what they can do from here on out.

The better way to do it, I think, would be to add more high-level patrol activities that require an "opt-in" approach. The Dreadnought had some stuff along these lines (activating the launch codes, for example). The problem with the Dreadnought is it became clear very quickly that none of the activities or secrets would reward high-level players with anything they could use.

I think it would be great to be able to go into patrol alone or with a fireteam and summon bosses or start little mini questlines that reward a nightfall-tier drop.

So.... basically you want more Court of Oryx?

Because that has both a mini quest line and a nightfall-tier drops

The thing about making patrol start changing depending on your progress is that then you have to join people into a patrol space based on that. Suddenly you have to categorize players into 100+ groups based on their progress. Also that means you will have to have that many map spaces depending on players progress. That could get ugly fast. But maybe not? maybe it's just too much work right now for Bungie to handle. Sure it's easy to say that they should have done it from the get go, but I'm more worried about what they can do from here on out.

Don't we already have this? Earth is level 1-7, Moon is 7-12, venus is 12-16, mars is 16-20 (Guessing based off of foggy memory), and dreadnaught is mostly 36.

There's just no associated rewards because we would never hang out in lower-level zones.

The thing about making patrol start changing depending on your progress is that then you have to join people into a patrol space based on that. Suddenly you have to categorize players into 100+ groups based on their progress. Also that means you will have to have that many map spaces depending on players progress. That could get ugly fast. But maybe not? maybe it's just too much work right now for Bungie to handle. Sure it's easy to say that they should have done it from the get go, but I'm more worried about what they can do from here on out.

This is definitely a problem that would have to be overcome. I wonder if "simply" placing the evolving areas of patrol in a separate instance would be sufficient. I see problems when you join up with players that haven't progressed through as much of the game tho'. I'm sure it could be handled somehow, but I question if it's possible without immersion breaking oddities.

I'm always wishing Patrol was more challenging and more rewarding. The Dreadnaught, too, was a small step in the right direction with its fairly large variety of interesting little activities and challenges. I expect even more of that in Rise of Iron, but it really need to go further than disconnected challenges, no matter how novel they are. I want direct story integration, where the Patrol spaces evolve along with the plot, instead of months or years later when expansions give us Patrol updates...

The thing about making patrol start changing depending on your progress is that then you have to join people into a patrol space based on that. Suddenly you have to categorize players into 100+ groups based on their progress. Also that means you will have to have that many map spaces depending on players progress. That could get ugly fast. But maybe not? maybe it's just too much work right now for Bungie to handle. Sure it's easy to say that they should have done it from the get go, but I'm more worried about what they can do from here on out.

The better way to do it, I think, would be to add more high-level patrol activities that require an "opt-in" approach. The Dreadnought had some stuff along these lines (activating the launch codes, for example). The problem with the Dreadnought is it became clear very quickly that none of the activities or secrets would reward high-level players with anything they could use.

I think it would be great to be able to go into patrol alone or with a fireteam and summon bosses or start little mini questlines that reward a nightfall-tier drop.

I'm always wishing Patrol was more challenging and more rewarding. The Dreadnaught, too, was a small step in the right direction with its fairly large variety of interesting little activities and challenges. I expect even more of that in Rise of Iron, but it really need to go further than disconnected challenges, no matter how novel they are. I want direct story integration, where the Patrol spaces evolve along with the plot, instead of months or years later when expansions give us Patrol updates...

The thing about making patrol start changing depending on your progress is that then you have to join people into a patrol space based on that. Suddenly you have to categorize players into 100+ groups based on their progress. Also that means you will have to have that many map spaces depending on players progress. That could get ugly fast. But maybe not? maybe it's just too much work right now for Bungie to handle. Sure it's easy to say that they should have done it from the get go, but I'm more worried about what they can do from here on out.

I think this post has enlightened me a little on the disconnect I feel in Destiny. It's normal for ME to go back and replay missions in video games. It's perfectly normal for ME to assault the control room again with Master Chief as he always was and forever will be the same character with the same progression when I start that level. However, in Destiny, when I replay a mission there's this strangeness because I'm not replaying it with my guardian as he/she was when I first started that mission, my guardian has changed and already done X. With Master Chief I don't feel weird, but it does with my Guardian because HE/SHE has already done that and progressed past it. I guess it comes from a deeper connection I feel with the progression of my character...

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just coming to a realization of a discomfort/disconnect/something that I have with Destiny and its mixture of RPG elements with the traditional shooter.

In a traditional RPG, the "grind" is done out in the open combat zones, not through story missions. This lets the player spend time levelling up without repeating the important story beats, which leads to the disconnect you're describing. Destiny is of course heavily skewed in the opposite direction. Things like Courtt of Oryx or the Taken Patrol invasions are little steps towards putting the focus back into patrol. I've always thought Destiny would benefit from a more fleshed out patrol mode with a greater range of challenges and activities. I feel like that is where we as guardians should be spending the majority of our time (makes sense within the in-game fiction, too). Having the option to replay missions or strikes is great, but I don't think it should be waited as heavily as it is now.

Many if not all of the year one rewards have not been updated with dynamic rewards. That's why everybody gets a rocket launcher at like 150 Light for beating the Crucible quest line even though many of us finished it at Level 40 and with more than 320 Light.

That's true. My reaction when that happens is, man, I shouldn't have ignored that quest. I probably could have used this a while back.

It's certainly a trade off.

In Halo, nothing you do in the future affects the way you replay past missions. You're always the Master Chief and there is a solidity and stability and ease of role play that comes from that. I'm leading these marines along this river beneath the African rain forest because I'm a noble, brainwashed supersoldier for whom completing the mission and bringing everyone home are my first and second most important priorities.

On the other hand, Destiny lets me play any mission as one of three characters that have the backstories and weapons preferences and superpowers and motivations of my choosing. I can be my tough experienced soldier far from home fighting to defend those who can't defend themselves. Or I can be my naturally talented but young and inexperienced street rat venturing beyond the walls who protected her all her life in order to provide for her sister. Or I can be my jaded robotic scholar who endured centuries of forced labor after our Golden Age collapsed and who fights to make sure no one claims him as a possession again. And you can choose to play as most any other kind of character you want!

I just want to say I like the way you engage your imagination while playing Destiny. I think you're doing it right, but I can understand other people not enjoying Destiny as much as they might enjoy a game like Halo because they're not accustomed to letting their own imagination fill in the blanks.

Bungie can improve Destiny's storytelling and I hope they do, but I have to admit that I kind of like that they require something of you to get the most out of the world they've created.

I do wish there was enough content in Destiny that I could completely level up, or even just get to a Light Level where I can do any normal activity without hinderance, without having to repeat anything. It does feel kinda odd to complete all the story content and not yet even be able to use a year two Legendary weapon or armor piece...

I totally agree. I've a similar but different quibble:

I played through the entire campaign with my brother-in-law & the refer-a-friend program. One thing that seriously bugged him (and mildly annoys me) is that the end-of-mission/quest-rewards were consistently below our current light level.

Quest-Rewards
A) Should be at or above our current light level. Drawback: could be seen as incentive to wait until you're near max light, especially for exotic rewards.
B) If not (A) then they should show what light the reward will be so players can do the quest at an appropriate time.
C) Possibly could benefit from light-level gating such that people don't skip to the highest rewarding quests thus accelerating their progression. (I believe this is currently possible, if you know the light level of the rewards).

End of Mission Rewards
A) Should be at or above our current light level.
B) Why don't we get rewards the 2nd time we play a story mission or strike? We get them when we play the strikes again in a playlist.

I thought there was a range of what rewards could be that were based on your light level, e.g., if you're light level was 300, the range might be 280-320. The perception might be that rewards were consistently below your light level, but statistically, that's unlikely. I don't have the right answer regarding how things should be, but I'm willing to bet they're trying to limit the amount of farming that goes on. It does seem like the harder the difficulty, the more likely you'll get something that's a higher light level. That makes sense to me.

I do wish there was enough content in Destiny that I could completely level up, or even just get to a Light Level where I can do any normal activity without hinderance, without having to repeat anything. It does feel kinda odd to complete all the story content and not yet even be able to use a year two Legendary weapon or armor piece...

I totally agree. I've a similar but different quibble:

I played through the entire campaign with my brother-in-law & the refer-a-friend program. One thing that seriously bugged him (and mildly annoys me) is that the end-of-mission/quest-rewards were consistently below our current light level.

Quest-Rewards
A) Should be at or above our current light level. Drawback: could be seen as incentive to wait until you're near max light, especially for exotic rewards.
B) If not (A) then they should show what light the reward will be so players can do the quest at an appropriate time.
C) Possibly could benefit from light-level gating such that people don't skip to the highest rewarding quests thus accelerating their progression. (I believe this is currently possible, if you know the light level of the rewards).

End of Mission Rewards
A) Should be at or above our current light level.
B) Why don't we get rewards the 2nd time we play a story mission or strike? We get them when we play the strikes again in a playlist.

In Halo, nothing you do in the future affects the way you replay past missions. You're always the Master Chief and there is a solidity and stability and ease of role play that comes from that. I'm leading these marines along this river beneath the African rain forest because I'm a noble, brainwashed supersoldier for whom completing the mission and bringing everyone home are my first and second most important priorities.

On the other hand, Destiny lets me play any mission as one of three characters that have the backstories and weapons preferences and superpowers and motivations of my choosing. I can be my tough experienced soldier far from home fighting to defend those who can't defend themselves. Or I can be my naturally talented but young and inexperienced street rat venturing beyond the walls who protected her all her life in order to provide for her sister. Or I can be my jaded robotic scholar who endured centuries of forced labor after our Golden Age collapsed and who fights to make sure no one claims him as a possession again. And you can choose to play as most any other kind of character you want!

Is a more set and structured character better than giving players the freedom to make up their own stories? Sometimes! It's often easier to slip into a specific place in a specific story as a specific character. And, it probably lends to making the stories you play though stronger and more impactful. Or at least it's probably easier for the developers to make impactful stories that way. But there is something to be said for having the freedom to approach a mission with huge variations in my strategy, loadout, and motivations.

I do wish there was enough content in Destiny that I could completely level up, or even just get to a Light Level where I can do any normal activity without hinderance, without having to repeat anything. It does feel kinda odd to complete all the story content and not yet even be able to use a year two Legendary weapon or armor piece...

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just coming to a realization of a discomfort/disconnect/something that I have with Destiny and its mixture of RPG elements with the traditional shooter.

Oryx is still there any time you please. Same with Crota and Aetheon. When you rid the black garden of it's literal heart of darkness, the Speaker gives you one. Mote. Of light. Thanks, buddy.

The Pillar of Autumn is still in space, captained by Jacob Keyes and is approaching an untouched Halo 04. Dr. Robotnik is still on the Death Egg with Metal Sonic in Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Muro and Shinatama are both still alive and Project STURMANDERUNG has yet to be put into motion in Oni. I mean, come on. Being able to replay levels and have them be the same as they were before is the hollowest of hollow complaints!

Furthermore, most of your complaints about our actions having no effect are at least partially incorrect. For instance:

- Killing Oryx as part of the TTK mission string is certainly commented on by stand around NPCs and mission dialogue and is in fact the basis of the entire Taken War questline. I think that qualified as having an impact. (And if your complaint is that killing Oryx in the King's Fall Raid had no impact, that just dumb. It was the end of this installment of Destiny similar how the final thing we did in Halo 2 was kill Tartarus. It will have implications going forward.)

- Killing Crota is what brought Oryx and his Taken to our solar system. That seems like an impact.

- Killing Atheon has had far less of an impact than killing the Hive king and his son, but it is commented on by Petra in the opening House of Wolves cinematic and we do return to the Vault of Glass multiple times where things have clearly changed based on our Raid. (No Templar when Skolas invades the Vault, for instance.) Not much in game impact? Ok, sure. But did it have "any impact on the world whatsoever"? Yes, yes it did.

- Our killing of the Black Garden's Heart hasn't lead to the Traveler healing, yet, as far as we know, but it too has affected the world. Not only do we start a Strike at the Heart's former home, stopping the Vex from reforming the Heart is mentioned as an objective in at least one mission during The Taken War quest line.

- To claim that the Wolves came and went had nothing to do with us is just plain silly. We were on the front line in that conflict. We prevented them from merging with the House of Kings. We kicked them out of the Vault of Glass. We fought through their time traveling army and captured their leader. Yes, we didn't see the results of our actions until The Taken King, but the scattering if not outright destruction of the Fallen House of Wolves (and the disappearance of their public events) very clearly is because of our actions.

- And yes, you caught yourself, but you missed at least one other in world change that is the result of our actions: Sepikis Prime laying dead in the cosmodrome. Oh, and Eris's ship disappearing from the Tower. That's kinda, sorta our fault... right? :p

This is not to say is wrong to be highly critical of the way Destiny's world has advanced. That same crashed Jumpship has been sitting in the first zone of the Cosmodrome for two years. I find that minor detail unacceptable, so you can imagine what I think about there being few, if any, updates to the unit composition and spawn points in the Patrol spaces. If all Bungie did was update those two things based on which mission you played last, we could have gotten this neat sense of pushing forces back, of other forces pushing in. That the world remained essentially static for two years is easily one of Destiny's biggest failings.

I do think it is wrong to ignore the things that did change like you (intentionally or unintentionally) did in your post, however. :(