Not the phenomal FPS mechanics. Nah, those don't matter.

And you don't think those are discoverable? What guns and perks to use? What skills to use where? And in what combinations?

About spoilers, I get that it’s not a big deal. I get that studies show that people actually enjoy stories more when they know what’s going to happen. (It’s probably one reason why I enjoyed Stranger Things so much—I felt like I knew what was going to happen in the next minute throughout that show.)

But the opposite is true of game challenges. It immediately eliminates the pleasure / thrill of discovery when you know the solutions and strategies ahead of time. Film doesn't work that way because you are not overcoming the challenge yourself, but watching someone else. The "how you get there" is precisely what is ruined when you tell someone how a boss mechanic works.

I can't explain the level of satisfaction I had when we all realized "Oh, the back of the pillars light up" after spending an unnacceptable amount of time guessing the order on Warpriest. I mean, it's those moments of sheer accidental discovery of a hilariously simple mechanic that make Destiny great.

Not the phenomal FPS mechanics. Nah, those don't matter.

About spoilers, I get that it’s not a big deal. I get that studies show that people actually enjoy stories more when they know what’s going to happen. (It’s probably one reason why I enjoyed Stranger Things so much—I felt like I knew what was going to happen in the next minute throughout that show.)

But the opposite is true of game challenges. It immediately eliminates the pleasure / thrill of discovery when you know the solutions and strategies ahead of time. Film doesn't work that way because you are not overcoming the challenge yourself, but watching someone else. The "how you get there" is precisely what is ruined when you tell someone how a boss mechanic works.

Did you get to the part that began "with raids" or did you just stop reading and start typing? :)

It's not just applicable to raids, but every aspect of a video game.

About spoilers, I get that it’s not a big deal. I get that studies show that people actually enjoy stories more when they know what’s going to happen. (It’s probably one reason why I enjoyed Stranger Things so much—I felt like I knew what was going to happen in the next minute throughout that show.)

But the opposite is true of game challenges. It immediately eliminates the pleasure / thrill of discovery when you know the solutions and strategies ahead of time. Film doesn't work that way because you are not overcoming the challenge yourself, but watching someone else. The "how you get there" is precisely what is ruined when you tell someone how a boss mechanic works.

Did you get to the part that began "with raids" or did you just stop reading and start typing? :)

About spoilers, I get that it’s not a big deal. I get that studies show that people actually enjoy stories more when they know what’s going to happen. (It’s probably one reason why I enjoyed Stranger Things so much—I felt like I knew what was going to happen in the next minute throughout that show.)

But the opposite is true of game challenges. It immediately eliminates the pleasure / thrill of discovery when you know the solutions and strategies ahead of time. Film doesn't work that way because you are not overcoming the challenge yourself, but watching someone else. The "how you get there" is precisely what is ruined when you tell someone how a boss mechanic works.

I truly don't get why people do this. It's mean-spirited and disrespectful.

It's a reaction to feeling as if we're being silenced whenever we want to discuss anything with a story. I hadn't had a water cooler chat about Black Sails or any of those high drama shows airing recently because someone says "SPOILERS" in the physics room, for ages. This year I got tired of it and I just do it anyway, plus usually throw in the ole Kylo Ren kills Han. I want to talk too, and I deeply resent being obliged to put things in spoiler tags.

It's s pain and sometimes seems silly but talking to hundreds of people at once is a power not that many people had 25 years ago, and with power comes responsibility.

About spoilers, I get that it’s not a big deal. I get that studies show that people actually enjoy stories more when they know what’s going to happen. (It’s probably one reason why I enjoyed Stranger Things so much—I felt like I knew what was going to happen in the next minute throughout that show.) All that said, staying unspoiled about stories in popular culture is harder than it’s ever been. And even though the delight that comes from surprise is one of the lesser pleasures of good storytelling, that experience DOES have value, and I think it’s rarer than ever to get that experience if, say, you’re active on the internet. And that’s too bad. In fact, to me, being genuinely delighted by a surprise in a story is so rare I value it more than ever. I used to argue with one of my roommates who avoided trailers or really knowing anything about a movie before he saw it. “It’s not where you go but how you get there,” I’d say. i get that argument. Now I lean in his direction. I want the surprise the first time, and then if the story's decent, I’ll get the nuances that knowledge brings the second and third time. With raids, I like going into an experience that feels epic because I don’t know what sights I might see, and I like not knowing what I’m seeing at first, and having to figure out what I’m seeing. I like having my brain engaged that way, and I like being with others who are engaged in the same way and the collective reasoning that happens because no one knows anything going in.

Yeah, saying things like "the missing kid was to lure someone to the island for a sacrifice," is disrespectful and mean-spirited, but that's why people do this. The catharsis is great, even though I know it angers people I like, and also Kermit.

Heh. What a jerk. We'll always have fountain pens.

No context, so thus no spoilers! See? I'm totally respectful.

No, you think you're a lovable and clever little imp (or something similar) that delivers to people funny chaos and says what everyone is thinking, when you're actually being a glib dick and pleasing no one but yourself (and maybe one or two people that just don't like other people as a rule). There are other people around here that take on one or several of those traits more strongly or more often than you, but you take on all of it, and you've been on this kick for the last several years.

No context, so thus no spoilers! See? I'm totally respectful.

It's not good enough to discuss Destiny? You just had to continue this thing where people try and piss other people off for no reason, huh?

<snip>
Save your false and disingenuous outrage, or find something real to get upset about. Your reaction to bluerunner's post says everything about your little show of a reply to me. Much like with a Cody or a petetheduck, you gotta feign that outrage or come at someone you don't particularly like. You're boring. Your false rage, informed by that reply to bluerunner, only leaves this yawn and your favorite thing ever of all time:

Well how about me then? I can't muster up rage at your little antics nor do I want to, but you are really annoying. You know that, and you know how to avoid it, but not only do you refuse, you sometimes double down on it. You're also disappointing, because you engage in this despite seeming like a pretty good person (unlike some other people I could name that do or did hang around this site that will intentionally piss people off).

So hey, sorry dude. I've said in the past in previous spoiler threads that I do feel like there's a genuine statute of limitations on spoilers, and I definitely don't think I agree with just spoiler tagging any and all things no matter how far we are from them, but I basically never go out of my way to spoil things (aside from Sixth Sense and Harry Potter). My go-to is and always has been Snape or Bruce Willis. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure I have a few "Snape killed Arbiter" posts at HBO. Fun times?

It's not good enough to discuss Destiny? You just had to continue this thing where people try and piss other people off for no reason, huh?

It's not like we don't have spoiler tags. It's not like we haven't gone round and round about spoilers recently. Doesn't even matter if everyone knows about Harry Potter and The Sixth Sense, you didn't have to do that... but being a jerk was apparently more important to you than respecting others' opinions.

I used my post to be somewhat dismissive of the eruption that occurred at Bungie daring to show their own game in their own ViDoc and, for all we know, not spoiling shit about the Raid or how it's going to play or what else we're missing from what was shown. I also showed respect by not commenting further on what exactly was shown or describing it in any way. So I used two of the most well known and made fun of and obvious spoilers in my post as a tool.

So you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time? You didn't mean to be associated with the larger debate about trying to piss people off by randomly posting spoilers? Fair enough.

Save your false and disingenuous outrage, or find something real to get upset about. Your reaction to bluerunner's post says everything about your little show of a reply to me. Much like with a Cody or a petetheduck, you gotta feign that outrage or come at someone you don't particularly like. You're boring. Your false rage, informed by that reply to bluerunner, only leaves this yawn and your favorite thing ever of all time:

If you hadn't noticed, Funkmon decided to meltdown today and he really made multiple people angry. Is it any surprises that you picked up some flack when you, intentionally or not, did much the same thing with spoilers as he was doing? And in the very same thread? Consider that rather than demonstrating false and disingenuous outrage about the same topic that got someone else banned, I just happen to be the first person to address you with a point of view that I and others had already shared with (at least) two others in the last couple of days.

I'm gonna take you at your word that you were reacting to the posts about Bungie spoiling things and not to the wider debate about spoilers. So take me at mine: I don't feign things. Aside from the occasional step too far, I mean and believe in what I say. That I end up criticizing the same people more often than others has much more to do with them espousing the same ideas that I strongly disagree with over long periods of time and far less to do with any personal dislike.

As for the reply to bluerunner... I was far more unhappy with his post than yours and I really let him have it. But then I edited it (both title and content) to what you see now about twenty minutes later. Check the time stamps. It's hardly representative of false outrage. More like restraint after the fact... That and I got Luke's quote wrong. :(

It's a shame I can't read your post because it contains unhidden spoilers.

I truly don't get why people do this. It's mean-spirited and disrespectful.

I was using some mean satire to lambast the reaction to what Bungie showed. I'm sorry if that upset you. I still feel my post served a purpose. Priorities. For the record, I don't agree with Funkmon's stuff below. So, without the Harry Potter obviousness and Sixth Sense obviousness, here's what I said (assuming you care to read it):

I'll be buying this thing. All this spoiler talk is hilarious to me because it's not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. [Clarification: The Bungie spoiler talk. That's not particularly made clear in my original post, especially considering all the talk of movie spoilers and things. So, I apologize for the lack of clarity, too, while still contending that the Bungie outrage is/was ridiculous.]

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to the new Raid. I also really can't wait for Destiny to be over with. I want Destiny 2. I'm really hoping that Destiny 2 will finally give us some real story progress, especially when it comes to the Traveler, the Speaker, the Exo who doesn't have time to tell me why she doesn't have time to tell me things, and hopefully letting me experience the story progress by visiting all sorts of new places (Chicago swamps?). But until then, whatever, I'll Raid away with all the buddies ever because it's awesome and fun and I love it even though I don't care about the gear at all (because I love my Trials gear too much to care about swapping it out for this other stuff outside of the Raid where the perks may matter).

It's not good enough to discuss Destiny? You just had to continue this thing where people try and piss other people off for no reason, huh?

It's not like we don't have spoiler tags. It's not like we haven't gone round and round about spoilers recently. Doesn't even matter if everyone knows about Harry Potter and The Sixth Sense, you didn't have to do that... but being a jerk was apparently more important to you than respecting others' opinions.

I used my post to be somewhat dismissive of the eruption that occurred at Bungie daring to show their own game in their own ViDoc and, for all we know, not spoiling shit about the Raid or how it's going to play or what else we're missing from what was shown. I also showed respect by not commenting further on what exactly was shown or describing it in any way. So I used two of the most well known and made fun of and obvious spoilers in my post as a tool.

Save your false and disingenuous outrage, or find something real to get upset about. Your reaction to bluerunner's post says everything about your little show of a reply to me. Much like with a Cody or a petetheduck, you gotta feign that outrage or come at someone you don't particularly like. You're boring. Your false rage, informed by that reply to bluerunner, only leaves this yawn and your favorite thing ever of all time:

there's a reason I didn't state it that way.

Cody doesn't need to be encouraged that his opinions represent objective truth. In this case, however, his opinion is his true opinion and we're in agreement on this one.

It just gets to me, because this thread can basically be summed up as some people telling others they're wrong for not wanting to know anything about a new raid, no matter how minor the detail. It doesn't matter what anyone's personal opinions are on what constitutes a spoiler--you don't get to define that for another person.

Nobody is wrong if they say with honesty they like spoilers. I struggle to see how people like Funkmon could not enjoy figuring out the raid, yet still want to play it being told exactly what to do (instead of just not playing it). I simply do not comprehend how that is fun for a human being. But he isn't wrong.

bullshit
You are not that autistic/socially stunted/unempathetic/whatever, you have to know how that works.

there's a reason I didn't state it that way.

Cody doesn't need to be encouraged that his opinions represent objective truth. In this case, however, his opinion is his true opinion and we're in agreement on this one.

It just gets to me, because this thread can basically be summed up as some people telling others they're wrong for not wanting to know anything about a new raid, no matter how minor the detail. It doesn't matter what anyone's personal opinions are on what constitutes a spoiler--you don't get to define that for another person.

No, but it gets prickly when their statements revolve around a word without defining that word. It's kind of like if someone told you they were giving you a new fridge and it's big, but then you saw it and it wasn't that big and said "Thanks for the fridge, but is this the right one? You said it was big", and then they got upset because it was a big fridge, for them. You had no frame of reference other than your own to go by so you were expecting something else (and asking people what they mean before you respond to them every time is a good way to get people to not want to talk to you any more).

There's another level to it too, in that people are pretty plainly exaggerating what the video shows, one person (Cody) even admitted they were probably going too far.

Anyway I don't think "your definition is wrong" or "your opinion is wrong" are driving points here, I think it's more people saying "your opinion is dumb"-- which is itself an opinion.