What's that? A buddy had me pick up Rocket League a bit ago, and I have yet to play it. I hear it's super fun. Do you have that game?

Elite: Dangerous. You fly around in space and do things of a space-y nature. It's in the same vein of Wing Commander: Privateer. Many have said it's a grown up version of No Man's Sky (which thanks to that Elite had a huge influx of new people).

I've hear nothing but good things about Rocket League. Something about cars and running around and soccer? I have no idea really haha.

There is a lot that I find obvious when it comes to games that others don't. Also in reverse. You can demean me all you want for that, but I'm not going to feel bad or change my stance here.

But in all seriousness, you seem to be confusing causality with responsibility. It's already been admitted to that we're culpable and at fault in some regard for taking time and so on and so forth. It's also been stated that none of us knew it would kick us to orbit without warning since it's never happened to any of us before. This is a group who has played "catch the person with the chalice" on numerous occasions after beating Crota for minutes and minutes on end without ever being kicked to space. And this very forum can't decide if it's a 5 minute orbit-kick timer or not or if it varies. Bungie's bad design is their responsibility, regardless of if we caused our own kick back to orbit by screwing around for 10 seconds too long as a direct result of their bad design and not being properly informed from it. Either way, lessons were learned and we won't be doing that again!

The question is, will Bungie learn from their mistakes? And as has been stated elsewhere, this is but one small one in a very large list of many! Also, Korny, real talk, you gonna Destiny on Xbox One or what? That offer is still there to get you Rise of Iron for it. Then you can direct-troll in person, which I also find hilarious. :D

I know that sigh. It was Zero and he was one table over! For some reason in my dream he looked like a fat Gilbert Gottfried with an Amish beard.

Headcanon Zero. True until proven otherwise (no nudes!).

My headcannon Zero is an old guy who sits on his front porch in Florida and yells obscenities at passing teenagers.

See, I'm the opposite...
MY headcannon Zero is a teenager (ok, 20-something) who sits on a bench in Leisure World yelling obscenities at passing old guys.

I'm > > > > > Teams beating a raid for the first time would be confused as to whether or not that was the final encounter. Not being taken to orbit after a long while would imply that there is something more that they are missing.

A big banner that pops up saying mission complete leaves no room for confusion.

And how many times does that pop up without the game automatically taking you to orbit?

Again, the issue is with the lack of visible timer. If players don't see that, they're going to assume that there is something more to do, when there isn't. However, three raids in a row should have taught players that after a period of time, they're sent to orbit.

Many people do not even know you are sent to orbit. Many people have never waited around long enough to be kicked to Orbit. I didn't even know this until someone told me during Crota flawless (so we could see the stat screen).

So imagine being a player like that, then playing this raid with no indication they are mistaken.

So no. It's not a good at teaching players. They do not have to cater to anyone. Only make sure the rules are established clearly.

Bad. Design.

So clearly you agree with what I said, that taking you to orbit is not bad design, but rather that they don't hold your hand and draw it out with crayon that 'yes, once again you will be taken to orbit' is bad design. Good to know.

The very first time that we beat Vault of Glass, we were looking at and comparing loot, and I can't remember what happened, but someone asked if we would get a postgame screen, and someone said that we did, but we had to wait it out, so apparently it wasn't that much of a revelation if it was already known of that early.

I thought you were one of those kids that watch streamers and crap. That somehow this basic information eluded you for so long is the only surprising thing here.

Man, I was typing up a reply but I had misread your handle as Kermit. Almost had me there.

I was like, dang, Kermit calling Cody a kid--what is happening here. Quality posting from DBO's latest admin.

I probably have called Cody a kid at some point. When you as old as me, you find yourself doing that.

A big banner that pops up saying mission complete leaves no room for confusion.

And how many times does that pop up without the game automatically taking you to orbit?

Again, the issue is with the lack of visible timer. If players don't see that, they're going to assume that there is something more to do, when there isn't. However, three raids in a row should have taught players that after a period of time, they're sent to orbit.

Many people do not even know you are sent to orbit. Many people have never waited around long enough to be kicked to Orbit. I didn't even know this until someone told me during Crota flawless (so we could see the stat screen).

So imagine being a player like that, then playing this raid with no indication they are mistaken.

So no. It's not a good at teaching players. They do not have to cater to anyone. Only make sure the rules are established clearly.

Bad. Design.

So clearly you agree with what I said, that taking you to orbit is not bad design, but rather that they don't hold your hand and draw it out with crayon that 'yes, once again you will be taken to orbit' is bad design. Good to know.

The very first time that we beat Vault of Glass, we were looking at and comparing loot, and I can't remember what happened, but someone asked if we would get a postgame screen, and someone said that we did, but we had to wait it out, so apparently it wasn't that much of a revelation if it was already known of that early.

I thought you were one of those kids that watch streamers and crap. That somehow this basic information eluded you for so long is the only surprising thing here.

Man, I was typing up a reply but I had misread your handle as Kermit. Almost had me there.

I was like, dang, Kermit calling Cody a kid--what is happening here. Quality posting from DBO's latest admin.

I know that sigh. It was Zero and he was one table over! For some reason in my dream he looked like a fat Gilbert Gottfried with an Amish beard.

Headcanon Zero. True until proven otherwise (no nudes!).

My headcannon Zero is an old guy who sits on his front porch in Florida and yells obscenities at passing teenagers.

Well, you got the Florida and yelling at teenagers part right. But I am not old, nor do we have a porch. I live in a basement suite in BC on a mountain or a foothill as the locals call it. Either way they deserved it, somehow. They always do.

I know that sigh. It was Zero and he was one table over! For some reason in my dream he looked like a fat Gilbert Gottfried with an Amish beard.

Headcanon Zero. True until proven otherwise (no nudes!).

My headcannon Zero is an old guy who sits on his front porch in Florida and yells obscenities at passing teenagers.

Teams beating a raid for the first time would be confused as to whether or not that was the final encounter. Not being taken to orbit after a long while would imply that there is something more that they are missing.

A big banner that pops up saying mission complete leaves no room for confusion.

And how many times does that pop up without the game automatically taking you to orbit?

Again, the issue is with the lack of visible timer. If players don't see that, they're going to assume that there is something more to do, when there isn't. However, three raids in a row should have taught players that after a period of time, they're sent to orbit.

Many people do not even know you are sent to orbit. Many people have never waited around long enough to be kicked to Orbit. I didn't even know this until someone told me during Crota flawless (so we could see the stat screen).

So imagine being a player like that, then playing this raid with no indication they are mistaken.

So no. It's not a good at teaching players. They do not have to cater to anyone. Only make sure the rules are established clearly.

Bad. Design.

So clearly you agree with what I said, that taking you to orbit is not bad design, but rather that they don't hold your hand and draw it out with crayon that 'yes, once again you will be taken to orbit' is bad design. Good to know.

The very first time that we beat Vault of Glass, we were looking at and comparing loot, and I can't remember what happened, but someone asked if we would get a postgame screen, and someone said that we did, but we had to wait it out, so apparently it wasn't that much of a revelation if it was already known of that early.

I thought you were one of those kids that watch streamers and crap. That somehow this basic information eluded you for so long is the only surprising thing here.

Teams beating a raid for the first time would be confused as to whether or not that was the final encounter. Not being taken to orbit after a long while would imply that there is something more that they are missing.

A big banner that pops up saying mission complete leaves no room for confusion.

And how many times does that pop up without the game automatically taking you to orbit?

Again, the issue is with the lack of visible timer. If players don't see that, they're going to assume that there is something more to do, when there isn't. However, three raids in a row should have taught players that after a period of time, they're sent to orbit.

Many people do not even know you are sent to orbit. Many people have never waited around long enough to be kicked to Orbit. I didn't even know this until someone told me during Crota flawless (so we could see the stat screen).

So imagine being a player like that, then playing this raid with no indication they are mistaken.

So no. It's not a good at teaching players. They do not have to cater to anyone. Only make sure the rules are established clearly.

Bad. Design.

Teams beating a raid for the first time would be confused as to whether or not that was the final encounter. Not being taken to orbit after a long while would imply that there is something more that they are missing.

A big banner that pops up saying mission complete leaves no room for confusion.

And how many times does that pop up without the game automatically taking you to orbit?

Again, the issue is with the lack of visible timer. If players don't see that, they're going to assume that there is something more to do, when there isn't. However, three raids in a row should have taught players that after a period of time, they're sent to orbit. Any group that has wanted to "explore" should have learned that by now. Any group that hasn't learned that likely never stays longer than a minute or two after completion, so it's irrelevant for them.

I do think that opening the last door should delay the timer by a minute, at least, because the end of the raid is slightly different this time around (the Outbreak Prime quest is really something that happens in tangent with the raid, but is not 100% part of the raid itself, so it should have been given a bit of leeway as far as end-of-mission behavior is concerned). But the behavior of Pete's group was something abnormal as well, and not something that Bungie should be inclined to cater to...

Teams beating a raid for the first time would be confused as to whether or not that was the final encounter. Not being taken to orbit after a long while would imply that there is something more that they are missing.

A big banner that pops up saying mission complete leaves no room for confusion.

If this isn't obvious, my mind is blown.

Teams beating a raid for the first time would be confused as to whether or not that was the final encounter. Not being taken to orbit after a long while would imply that there is something more that they are missing.
How many teams started looking around for an extra chest on Atheon before they were sent to orbit? The "rules" (according to Cody) of the raid so far have been that once a boss is defeated, you figure out the next step of the raid. The other established rule of the game is that once you have entirely completed a mission, you are sent to Orbit. Outside of the Outbreak Prime chest (which takes seconds to get to and from, and which contains no items that take up Inventory space at all), there have so far been zero instances of anything to do or see after the death of the final raid boss, so the five minute timer has been ridiculously generous. Want to explore a single room? Five minutes should be way more than enough.

The game does have invisible timers, though (duration of Swords of Crota, Wolves, Taken forces), so it's not entirely unheard of. The invisible timer is poor design, but taking you to orbit is not (however, it could be improved IF you had a way to delay/cancel the Return to Orbit, or if you could accelerate the timer).

Everything aside, this is far too much discussion over a single, isolated case of people doing dumb stuff and being surprised by the consequences of their dumb actions. I say they all deserved it (except you Rowboat and Wilshire, you two kind of just got caught in the crossfire), and it was a hilarious and facepalm-inducing experience for the rest of us. MotW right there.

I know that sigh. It was Zero and he was one table over! For some reason in my dream he looked like a fat Gilbert Gottfried with an Amish beard.

Headcanon Zero. True until proven otherwise (no nudes!).

Here's the vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrSJrQWObRU

Psst you should buy Elite.