Which a) is pretty douchey of me, and I apologise
And b) is irrelevant - Bungie have to make decisions fir their existing audience, not my hypothetical ideal MMO crowd.

Bungie doesn't have matchmaking now for the same reason they don't let you play certain difficulties until you reach a certain light level. For the raids that exist now, if Bungie were to add matchmaking, they would be setting up players for failure, which would be a problem. There would then naturally be pressure to fix the problem, but the only way to fix that problem would be to dumb down future raids.

It's been implemented since May. It's in the companion app, too. Tap More > Recruitment.

For some reason I thought that was purely for finding clans. TIL, thanks!

Imagine the scandal is Destinylfg.com sold their domain name to a porn company. Or what if the people running it decided to just embed some malware into their website? Maybe EA buys it and makes it just totally not work properly in order to tank Destiny. Companies should *never* rely upon 3rd parties to perform basic functionality of their games. It's risky as hell because it's out of your control.

How would Bungie have any responsibility for that scenario. How would that tank Destiny? I don't understand what you're saying at all.

DBO's FTB is a third-party product. If evil Beorn made it malicious, how would that be Bungie's scandal?

While Bungie wouldn't be legally liable in any way, it would hurt their players and community. Better to play it safe.

So I fully support 2Destiny2Furious including matchmaking. It's all about the implementation. My hope is that there will be some kind of feedback option, filtering for trolls and spammers, and an in-game message board that works just like LFG. "I'm a 398 warlock LFG for Wrath of the Machine Hard Mode (Fresh Run)." "Experienced raiders LF2M Vault of Glass Flawless attempts." "Streamer LTS 2 for Trials." Then you just browse and connect. That would be great.

Seamless matchmaking like in Destiny 1 would be awful, because it doesn't guarantee players are in chat. But something that streamlined the LFG process and cut out the middleman would be very, very welcome.

They're not relying on third-party sites now. Bungie has already implemented their own version of LFG, so I don't know what you mean about cutting out the middleman.

I had absolutely no idea. I've never seen or heard of this until just now. Good for them; I wish they'd advertise it.

-Disciple

Actually, you are drawing a false equivalency here. "Randos" who go to an LFG site are not the same as "randos" who select an activity through in-game matchmaking. Going to an LFG site takes more effort, therefore showing a greater level of commitment.

Exactly. Even though you're playing with complete strangers through an LFG site, they've at least marginally shown they're committed to trying to complete a raid.

I don't know if you ever played Gears of War horde mode, but I don't think I ever made it past wave 30 (out of 50) in a matchmade group because somebody would always quit early, which would cause someone else to quit, and before you know it the whole team is gone before the JIP function could replace anyone. And Horde Mode is infinitely simpler than any of Destiny's raids.

You don't even have to look outside of Destiny for evidence of matchmaking in raids being a bad idea. You only have to look at any strike playlist or Crucible match to see any number of quitters or AFKs.

Like I said, I won't be upset merely because raids are matchmade if that happens. I'll certainly never use matchmaking to find a group for a raid, unless raids get dumbed down. And then that's when I'll be upset.

Look, I'm all for as many as people as possible being able to play the raid. But at a certain point, if you can't even be bothered to put a group together, maybe raiding just isn't designed for you.

And for me, coming from the folks who I see as most hardcore into raiding, that adds extra rhetorical weight to their points.

It wouldn't be Bungie's problem or fault. But their game and fans would suffer without the crutch nonetheless. Much better and safer to run it in-house.

And they've done exactly that. Bungie has their own LFG site.

Anyone who's played basically any other MMO (including Luke Smith) knows that raid matchmaking is fine. The first few weeks after an expansion can be spotty as people learn, but it all trickles down and after 2 weeks you can hop in there with solid expectations of victory.

3:2 odds that within 2 years Luke Smith is no longer at Bungie. Bookmark this post and check in late 2018.

It would be a shame because his raids are great.

If Bungie don't want Raid Matchmaking its because it doesn't fit their vision. Which is fine! But it's definitely not because their raids are too complicated.

Are all the current Raids dumbed down because Bungie doesn't require the people you Raid with be your lifelong friends who are playing in the same room as you?

Actually, probably, yeah. You don't think the raids would be different if they could guarantee that? I bet they would.

I get why people want matchmaking for raids. I'll even give it the benefit of the doubt if it does happen. But I don't see it making anyone happy. If people wanted to raid, they would raid. It's not that hard to put a group together. On the other hand, Bungie will absolutely have to take the fact that complete randos will be raiding together into account when they design raids. I'm not sure that will be detrimental, but I also don't see how it can be good.

Complete randos raid together now. All this talk of absolutely is just silly.

No they don't. I'm taking the liberty of defining cheapley's "complete randos" as randos who will have simply followed the prompts Bungie provided them with to join a raid fireteam. Those randos are not the randos playing now.

Well then. You win. Because you defined winning to be whatever you say. Good job.

Actually, you are drawing a false equivalency here. "Randos" who go to an LFG site are not the same as "randos" who select an activity through in-game matchmaking. Going to an LFG site takes more effort, therefore showing a greater level of commitment.

I'm often the first person to complain when a game system or mechanic isn't "player friendly" in terms of convinience, but there are times when making things as easy as possible can backfire. With Destiny's raids, Bungie has created an activity that is far more demanding than the average co-op shooter experience. Demanding activity + instant matchmaking + playing with complete strangers is a bad combination.

I don't know if you ever played Gears of War horde mode, but I don't think I ever made it past wave 30 (out of 50) in a matchmade group because somebody would always quit early, which would cause someone else to quit, and before you know it the whole team is gone before the JIP function could replace anyone. And Horde Mode is infinitely simpler than any of Destiny's raids.

It won't be. Having accommodated the broader audience by adding matchmaking, other accommodations will sneak in, and raiding as we know it will end. I completely agree with Cody on this.

Absolute phrasing based on an opinion is still a stilly way to use words.

Words, Shmords. Raid matchmaking would suck, absolutely.

Are all the current Raids dumbed down because Bungie doesn't require the people you Raid with be your lifelong friends who are playing in the same room as you?

Actually, probably, yeah. You don't think the raids would be different if they could guarantee that? I bet they would.

I get why people want matchmaking for raids. I'll even give it the benefit of the doubt if it does happen. But I don't see it making anyone happy. If people wanted to raid, they would raid. It's not that hard to put a group together. On the other hand, Bungie will absolutely have to take the fact that complete randos will be raiding together into account when they design raids. I'm not sure that will be detrimental, but I also don't see how it can be good.

Complete randos raid together now. All this talk of absolutely is just silly.

No they don't. I'm taking the liberty of defining cheapley's "complete randos" as randos who will have simply followed the prompts Bungie provided them with to join a raid fireteam. Those randos are not the randos playing now.

Well then. You win. Because you defined winning to be whatever you say. Good job.