So far I'm getting from the plot

racism = wrong
revolution = dangerous
sometimes black people can also be bad

None of which have been a great revelation, or dealt with nearly as well as some other games have.

Yeah, those end up being footnotes in the real plot :)

racism = wrong
revolution = dangerous
sometimes black people can also be bad

None of which have been a great revelation, or dealt with nearly as well as some other games have.

<b>eta -</b> that's a great article you linked to by the way, says all I've been wanting to say

I direct you to your own thread, where it seems pretty clear. They've been talking about this stuff for a long while and we've stats more recently than those screenshots.
I do mind a bit of accuracy leveling up. Feeling like I contributed is all well and good, but what if I want more than that?

Yeah that's fair. I think we're mostly saying that we don't know how much of an impact it'll have on gameplay. I am satisfied at least that in the gameplay they showed at E3 headshots seemed to take out every basic enemy, which is a worry I have from an RPG style game. It's fine when you build it into mechanics such as elites that take two shots to the head because they have shields, but it's frustrating when even basic enemies scale up and can take a sniper rifle round to the face without going down (which was one of my main frustrations in Borderlands) I'm guessing they even haven't figured out the balance on that yet though. I just hope they realize it is much more fun when skill is more important than stats.

No it hasn't. Bungie has barely said a word about the effects of leveling at all, as far as I know they haven't even so much as commented on what any of the numbers we've seen mean or do, while one of their most consistent messages so far has been that they know shooters and that Destiny is first and foremost a shooter. It's a legitimate fear (not one that I share, I don't mind a bit of accuracy leveling up) but it is a fear that is in no way, shape, or form, pretty much confirmed.

Not to mention they have stated a few times in the last couple of months that you can play with people much higher level than you and still feel like you contribute and still have fun.

I direct you to your own thread, where it seems pretty clear. They've been talking about this stuff for a long while and we've stats more recently than those screenshots.
I do mind a bit of accuracy leveling up. Feeling like I contributed is all well and good, but what if I want more than that?

I'm just astounded that you played this at all.

Considering how much I liked it, me too :)

No it hasn't. Bungie has barely said a word about the effects of leveling at all, as far as I know they haven't even so much as commented on what any of the numbers we've seen mean or do, while one of their most consistent messages so far has been that they know shooters and that Destiny is first and foremost a shooter. It's a legitimate fear (not one that I share, I don't mind a bit of accuracy leveling up) but it is a fear that is in no way, shape, or form, pretty much confirmed.

Not to mention they have stated a few times in the last couple of months that you can play with people much higher level than you and still feel like you contribute and still have fun.

that numbers you've racked up will have more influence, or just as much influence, on gunplay as your aim and choice of weapon, which has pretty much been confirmed (please don't make that part of the game Bungie)

No it hasn't. Bungie has barely said a word about the effects of leveling at all, as far as I know they haven't even so much as commented on what any of the numbers we've seen mean or do, while one of their most consistent messages so far has been that they know shooters and that Destiny is first and foremost a shooter. It's a legitimate fear (not one that I share, I don't mind a bit of accuracy leveling up) but it is a fear that is in no way, shape, or form, pretty much confirmed.

I know the game hasn't come out yet, and I know a lot of people have high hopes for Destiny, and I know I'm new to DBO, but I'm wondering, what are your biggest worries about what Bungie might do wrong?

Personally, I must praise the Halo-style combat filled with maneuvering and thinking (at least that's what the reveal gameplay seems to imply), but I immediately start cringing when I notice the immense amount of Star Wars influence. Once again, I know a lot of people like Star Wars, but for me, it's like nails on chalkboard - especially the original trilogy. So when I see how a lot of the characters are wearing what look like hybrids between Assassin's Creed and Star Wars, I start to wonder whether Bungie's actually doing the right thing.

Also, the Fantasy influences irk me a little bit, possibly for the same reason Star Wars does - cheesy, cliché, unenjoyable, and nonsensical. And the idea of 'I'm a Hero' in a Massively-Multiplayer-oriented game seems a little weird, though I'm sure that's been pointed out.

So, that out of the way, what are some of your worries?

my biggest worries are:
pretty much what you expressed about fantasy
that numbers you've racked up will have more influence, or just as much influence, on gunplay as your aim and choice of weapon, which has pretty much been confirmed (please don't make that part of the game Bungie)
stuff about competitive multiplayer
stuff about campaign/single-player/story mode

So, that out of the way, what are some of your worries?

My biggest worry is that Bungie is going to succumb to the shitty modern design philosophy of making rewards an important part of the game, through gear, experience, and player investment systems.

Imagine for a second that Bungie designed Destiny without a save feature. It would rule and here's why.

First of all, you'd probably wonder HOW such a thing could even work.

<snip>

Let's say at this point you stop playing.

Tomorrow, you turn on Destiny, and you find yourself at the start, with a bare slate since you can;t save anything. But you still have that information. So you go, and instead of doing the first quest again, you go access the hidden entrance. Maybe after completing this quest you get some story information, and hints on things to do next.

Congratulations, you've just re-invented the choose-your-own-adventure book.

What would this force Bungie to do? Well, first of all, it would force Bungie to perfectly pace missions / levels etc, and make sure that they are constantly engaging and novel, something that arcade designers generally mastered because you couldn't save. Second, it would force Bungie to create fun situations, by virtue of the fact that it would be impossible to tempt players with rewards, since you can't save exp, weapon progression, loot, or anything like that. The game itself has to be fun enough to play without bullshit player investment systems. Third, it would force impeccable planning and design in the scenario and story construction.

This limitation would force Bungie to discard all the bullshit that modern game design has heaped upon us, and distill the game to its most streamlined, pure, and elegant form. Is this mission fun without the ability to save? No? Then it's shit, we'd better make it fun!

How would that force them to do anything?

To answer your confusion about GOTY, it's very simple. Any game that touches on a serious subject like racism (no matter how clumsily) automatically gets praised. ZOMG LOOK AT THIS! GAMES CAN SAY SOMETHING IMPORTANT!

Meanwhile, everybody else laughs at you.

I don't think the racism part of the story is the reason it was praised. Obviously I'm not going to into spoilers here, but from pretty much any gaming site it was the last 30 minutes to an hour of the game that made everyone really love the story. I definitely don't agree that it deserves GOTY for a story that you don't even really appreciate until the end of the game, but I do love the story.

Cute idea, cute characters, some nice voice acting. I think the game aspects of it are absolutely appalling and I can't understand how anyone was throwing around GotY in reference to it.

You're saying all the right things.

To answer your confusion about GOTY, it's very simple. Any game that touches on a serious subject like racism (no matter how clumsily) automatically gets praised. ZOMG LOOK AT THIS! GAMES CAN SAY SOMETHING IMPORTANT!

Meanwhile, everybody else laughs at you.

Just rolling through Fink town till I stop for the night.

I'm enjoying it, but on the same level that I enjoyed Remember Me. Cute idea, cute characters, some nice voice acting. I think the game aspects of it are absolutely appalling and I can't understand how anyone was throwing around GotY in reference to it.

Just wait for the story to pick up.

I'm enjoying it, but on the same level that I enjoyed Remember Me. Cute idea, cute characters, some nice voice acting. I think the game aspects of it are absolutely appalling and I can't understand how anyone was throwing around GotY in reference to it.

Were you trolling me? Do you actually like this game?

The game was fun to play once because of its setting and aesthetic (or immersion if you will), but on a thematic and mechanical level it was garbage. I thought I made that pretty clear in the post you replied to.

My real worry is kind of strange. What if Destiny is mind-blowing? What if it is so awesome and includes such a wide range of exciting and fun things to do that not playing it feels like deprivation, as if you're avoiding your own birthday party or something. I know: it's a first-world problem. With things like public events I worry that I'll constantly fear I'm missing something. I'm a nearly 50-year-old man with a large variety of commitments and interests. Will I have time to be the space wizard that I want to be? Will I have time to be that AND be the real-life person that I want to be? It is kind of a strange worry, like I said. Bungie has explicitly commented that players with less time to play will find it enjoyable. That's good. Maybe the real worry is with me. Can I be satisfied being a casual player? (Those who know me know that I'm not using "casual player" to refer to skill level. In that regard I'll probably be a casual player no matter how much I play.)

Kermit

Heh, me too, though I couldn't quite express it like you just did.