Reminds me of the justifications of Social Darwinists. I like it.

Kind of? The group he targets are the elite of human empires spanning hundreds of systems. Regular folk he doesn't really care about.

Interesting. Adds a sticking-it-to-the man component that could earn him folk-hero status. That being said, it seems as though he hasn't carried his ideology through if he's not also challenging the regular folk to "earn the right to experience the potential beauty of the universe." Just a thought...

Perhaps they have to want it, to? If you don't want it, you're not interesting, and probably not any fun to fight.

He also despises hypocrisy. "You strive for what you perceive as greatness, yet never risk sacrifice?"

Reminds me of the justifications of Social Darwinists. I like it.

Kind of? The group he targets are the elite of human empires spanning hundreds of systems. Regular folk he doesn't really care about.

Interesting. Adds a sticking-it-to-the man component that could earn him folk-hero status. That being said, it seems as though he hasn't carried his ideology through if he's not also challenging the regular folk to "earn the right to experience the potential beauty of the universe." Just a thought...

Reminds me of the justifications of Social Darwinists. I like it.

Kind of? The group he targets are the elite of human empires spanning hundreds of systems. Regular folk he doesn't really care about.

I've settled on at least one motivation.

He sees the universe as a brutally gorgeous happenstance. An uncaring, harsh place with the possibility of unimaginable beauty. However, he believes that any chance in seeing such beauty must be earned, and that sentient life either fights, or it dies. In his murderous way, he fancies himself a teacher.

That reminds me of General Marder from Titanfall 2. He sums up the motivations for the entire conflict in the series in a single four-minute-long speech about expendability and human progress:

He sees the universe as a brutally gorgeous happenstance. An uncaring, harsh place with the possibility of unimaginable beauty. However, he believes that any chance in seeing such beauty must be earned, and that sentient life either fights, or it dies. In his murderous way, he fancies himself a teacher.

I think this gmork is the embodiment of what you're looking for:

His motives are evil yet logical, and get right to the heart of what it means to be human.

If you are unfamiliar:

Fantastica is the world of human imagination, and there is a great nothing destroying it. The nothing is basically the despair, doubt, and lies in our heads. Gmork wants the nothing to destroy fantastica, since people without imagination, dreams, and hopes are much easier to control. So fighting the nothing means embracing our dreams.

Interesting. How does Gmork see himself? Is he on the side of the angles, for example? Or does he know his actions are a naked power grab?

The problem with this type of bad guy is that you need to be Heath Ledger to pull it off convincingly.

Just watched a "Too Young" documentary on him. What a loss!

Also reminds me of The Operative from Firefly. He knows what he does is deplorable but he does it because he truly believes that these actions will bring about a better life for the rest of society. He is the sacrificial lamb upon which the rest of existence can be built free of guilt and dirty hands.

Unfortunately we all know the cause he fought for was a sham...but for the longest time he didn't know that and saw himself as the hero.

I have always thought that a really cool story in the Halo universe would be as follows:

Somehow (pre reach), a Spartan discovers the truth behind the program. That they are kidnapped, mutilated (many just die), and replaced by clones who wither away. Wishing this upon nobody else, the Spartan attempts to find his parents and tell them the truth, so that everyone would know about the horrible things Oni did.

I don't understand. Don't all the Spartan IIs pretty much know exactly what happened? They know they were taken from home. They know they were conscripted into the UNSC. The survivors even knew what happened to those that didn't live through the final surgeries. They were at the funeral for their fallen friends! The only thing I can't remember off the top of my head is if the Spartan IIs knew about their short-lived clones.

The villain would be someone form Oni tracking him down. A Locke type guy. Turns out, because the covenant are going to completely wipe us out, a secret program is just what's needed. Panic, backlash, and the unwillingness to sacrifice children would jeopardize our survival.

In the end, the Spartan would come to accept that truth. The truth that his duty is to the survival of the human race whatever the cost. He'd surrender to the operative, only to be killed.

You could add a journalist similar to what's his name from hunt the truth, who works with the Spartan. The Spartan would then have to betray him to keep the secret.

But you know, 343 would never do that.

Well... except they did do that. Or pretty close to it. Have you never watched Homecoming from Halo Legends?

Also reminds me of The Operative from Firefly. He knows what he does is deplorable but he does it because he truly believes that these actions will bring about a better life for the rest of society. He is the sacrificial lamb upon which the rest of existence can be built free of guilt and dirty hands.

Unfortunately we all know the cause he fought for was a sham...but for the longest time he didn't know that and saw himself as the hero.

I have always thought that a really cool story in the Halo universe would be as follows:

Somehow (pre reach), a Spartan discovers the truth behind the program. That they are kidnapped, mutilated (many just die), and replaced by clones who wither away. Wishing this upon nobody else, the Spartan attempts to find his parents and tell them the truth, so that everyone would know about the horrible things Oni did.

The villain would be someone form Oni tracking him down. A Locke type guy. Turns out, because the covenant are going to completely wipe us out, a secret program is just what's needed. Panic, backlash, and the unwillingness to sacrifice children would jeopardize our survival.

In the end, the Spartan would come to accept that truth. The truth that his duty is to the survival of the human race whatever the cost. He'd surrender to the operative, only to be killed.

You could add a journalist similar to what's his name from hunt the truth, who works with the Spartan. The Spartan would then have to betray him to keep the secret.

But you know, 343 would never do that.

Hello, DBO.

I hope this post finds you all well. I'm working on a bit of a role play project involving villainy. Right now, I'm sort of fleshing out the character. I'd like some input on creating someone truly evil and worthy of strong feelings, yet allows space for his enemies to learn something positive about themselves.

I think this gmork is the embodiment of what you're looking for:

His motives are evil yet logical, and get right to the heart of what it means to be human.

If you are unfamiliar:

Fantastica is the world of human imagination, and there is a great nothing destroying it. The nothing is basically the despair, doubt, and lies in our heads. Gmork wants the nothing to destroy fantastica, since people without imagination, dreams, and hopes are much easier to control. So fighting the nothing means embracing our dreams.

Ever watch Unbreakable? The villain in that move was really well done but I won't say more in case you haven't seen it.

In general I think villains are better when they aren't strictly evil. When they are doing evil things, but for good reasons. Or perhaps when their past has caused them to become evil in some way. Especially if whatever caused them to become evil is directly related to what caused the heroes to become heroes.

Not necessarily. It can be just as fun or appropriate if you villain is just pure evil. I mean, can you imagine Rocky IV with Ivan Drago as a guy with a complex, nuanced psychology? If he felt something when he killed Apollo? No that would suck, because the film is about the evils of Communism and the strength of the American spirit.

Pure evil with no shades can work depending on what story you want to tell.

I would be so excited to see him wrestle with being a cog in an awful machine and have the death of an opponent weigh on him.

But then it would be a completely different movie - one where communism no longer removes your humanity. Thus my point. The theme of the film only works with a one dimensional villain.

Ever watch Unbreakable? The villain in that move was really well done but I won't say more in case you haven't seen it.

In general I think villains are better when they aren't strictly evil. When they are doing evil things, but for good reasons. Or perhaps when their past has caused them to become evil in some way. Especially if whatever caused them to become evil is directly related to what caused the heroes to become heroes.

Not necessarily. It can be just as fun or appropriate if you villain is just pure evil. I mean, can you imagine Rocky IV with Ivan Drago as a guy with a complex, nuanced psychology? If he felt something when he killed Apollo? No that would suck, because the film is about the evils of Communism and the strength of the American spirit.

Pure evil with no shades can work depending on what story you want to tell.

I would be so excited to see him wrestle with being a cog in an awful machine and have the death of an opponent weigh on him.