But, most importantly, I get $12 off if I pre order on Amazon. And it shows up release day!

I'm in Florida for the entire month of August using hotel internet, so I'm ordering Madden 18 to be delivered to my hotel from Amazon Prime, and I'm going to play Franchise mode offline.

So, I get to play it for less, I get the stupid bonuses, I get the disk, and I get it on release day. Zero reason to not pre order.

I don't think I'm even ordering far enough in advance to get much advantage of preloading; I just like having the game in the "ready to install" queue when I'm ready to start.

I usually only "pre" order by a couple days. It's a really minor advantage in convenience.

Yeah that's the number one reason I pre-order as well.

But if you buy digital there is zero reason to preorder. You can't preload games like you can on steam. There is zero benefit to buying the game before it launches.

Both XB1 and PS4 support preloading.

I don't think I'm even ordering far enough in advance to get much advantage of preloading; I just like having the game in the "ready to install" queue when I'm ready to start.

I usually only "pre" order by a couple days. It's a really minor advantage in convenience.

I like achievements and trophies. I really enjoyed getting my only Platinum trophy in Horizon Zero Dawn.

But why would I care if I earn an achievement and then return game? Why would anybody?

Depending on the game and the ease of the achievement, it's more than possible to accidentally earn an achievement within two hours of playtime. In fact, a lot of developers are counting on it. If you spend however long on an Xbox (or Playstation, I guess) game and you don't unlock something, you'll likely think "Oh man, this game must be really hard or something! Maybe I should quit before I get one and it's stuck to me forever!" (Looking at you, DOAX2.) So 90% of the time, they're going to put anywhere from one to plenty of easy achievements to get them committed, get them mollified, but most important, get them to keep going.

And I haven't even tipped the iceberg about people who win achievements accidentally. It's very possible! Let's be honest, not many people are going to be looking at achievement lists before they start a game anyway. Secret or not, there's a good chance you will be spoiled. Plus, unless you go to an external site, I don't think you even can look at them before you put the game in. So that's yet another factor to look out for.

As for the two hours? That is more than enough time. Anybody remember the Crackdown 2 demo? That was the world's first(and I can bet only) game in the world to have PRE-achievements; stuff you complete in the demo, then unlock and get your points en masse when you buy the actual game! Everyone LOVED it. Guess what the limited time for that demo was? Thirty minutes. And yet, people still "unlocked" ten achievements in that time frame.

Which makes my question even more pressing/valid, because it's more than possible—it's outright common.

(Sorry for the spelling errors, my keyboard's messing up, need a new one)

But if you buy digital there is zero reason to preorder. You can't preload games like you can on steam. There is zero benefit to buying the game before it launches.

Both XB1 and PS4 support preloading.

This is good news. I guess there is a benefit then.

But if you buy digital there is zero reason to preorder. You can't preload games like you can on steam. There is zero benefit to buying the game before it launches.

Both XB1 and PS4 support preloading.

It's been a good three or so years since I preordered anything months out, but isn't it usually the case that most retailers won't charge you until your product is very close to shipping? If money isn't leaving my account until, at most, a day or two before a game launches, then no, I'm not being used as an interest-free loan.

Surely some here have preordered Destiny 2 already. Have any of you been charged yet for your preorder yet?

Yes. If you buy at a place like GameStop they usually want 5 bucks or so to hold your preorder.

I generally agree with you.

That being said, Xenos' reply says that MS doesn't charge you until the game comes out, which may invalidate this particular case (though I'm still with you on pre-orders in general).

That would also be great. I probably still would not be pre-ordering games as a matter of habit, but at times when I might be inclined to do so, I'd have fewer reservations about it if it were billed at time of release.

Kudos to MS if that is what they are doing.

Surely some here have preordered Destiny 2 already. Have any of you been charged yet for your preorder yet?

Destiny.

I think it's a great idea, but what worries me is the achievements. Do you UN-earn them, or do they stay there forever. And does that open the door to gamerscore abuse?

I'd assume you keep them, but - really - how many acheevos are you getting in less than 2 hours of total playtime?

Let's press that magic rewind button back to 2008...

Y' never know with game developers, especially now. Some games, like Unravel, sneak achievements into their demos. Found that out the hard way. Now, luckily, I was interested enough in the game to want to buy it before I played the demo, but I was still livid at the tactic of sealing your record and gamerscore to a game whether you want it or not. I don't even play demos anymore because of that.

Destiny.

I think it's a great idea, but what worries me is the achievements. Do you UN-earn them, or do they stay there forever. And does that open the door to gamerscore abuse?

I'd assume you keep them, but - really - how many acheevos are you getting in less than 2 hours of total playtime?

That being said, Xenos' reply says that MS doesn't charge you until the game comes out, which may invalidate this particular case (though I'm still with you on pre-orders in general).

As most of you are aware, I stand staunchly against pre-orders for many, many reasons.

HOWEVER,

The possibility of a refund if you find that you received a product other than what you expected negates the reasons why I am against preorders. So, I am pleased to announce that you can now get refunds from the Xbox Live store for preordered digital content that is not up to snuff.

That's great!

Although I'd suggest there are other reasons to avoid preorders.

Preorders are allowing the amalgamation of retailers, publishers and (indirectly) developers to treat you like an interest-free bank.

They get your money, well in advance, for a thing that isn't even out yet, and in extreme cases, might not ever be. Refunding your money afterwards isn't actually fair compensation because of lost opportunity costs. They should at least pay you back your initial payment plus prime over the term for an item that is never released. (Rare, but it does happen.)

Generally I only preorder stuff I *know* I will play regardless of what happens (I preordered Destiny and expansions purely for my own convenience) or I preorder other things a day or so in advance so I don't have to wake up in the middle of the night to start a manual download.