The Darkness benefits from the Traveller's actions.

The T terraforms planets - the D's followers take them over.

It is not in the interests of the D's followers to destroy the T as it is a benefactor for them. It would be in their interests to make use of the D's help to surplant the T's current allies but not to the point of destroying the T. Their interests would be best served by encouraging the T to move on and Terraform other systems.

It may also be more beneficial for those who have been helped by the T to let go of narrow minded territoriality and to join with the D to force the T to move on so that they could colonise more systems. They would have to fight for the new systems and, perhaps, share them with others but a twenty percent stake in 5+ systems is a net gain. If guardians are very good at fighting then they would flourish under those conditions.

Could a T be reprogrammed or persuaded to make more Ts and to terraform uninhabited systems?

And yet a silent and damage Traveler hangs over the City. Maybe the Darkness caught up to the Traveler too soon? Maybe Humanity fought back too well or refused to be turned to the Darkness' side? Maybe this time the Traveler fought back where as before it just moved on?

My current view is that Humanity and the Traveler did not fight the four lesser races, but fought the Darkness itself and just barely won. I think it was only Humanity & Traveler vs the Darkness seeing as a greatly reduced Humanity is able to strike out against the four lesser races during modern day Destiny. One would think that Golden Age Humanity would be able to crush all four at once if the Darkness was not around.

During the battle it sounds like we put up a fight, but on our own would have been no match. We were killed and driven off our worlds and colonies throughout the solar system until a final battle occurred. As a result of that battle both the Traveler and the Darkness were badly hurt, neither one able to continue the fight. Fortunately for the Traveler it still had what was left of Humanity and settled over us to protect us, yes, but also in the hopes that we could help it. Unfortunately the Darkness has its own allies who it has called in. Maybe the four races we are fighting aren't so much here for us, not that killing us isn't the ultimate goal they just have no access to the City at this point, but they're here picking through the remains of our Golden Age in an effort to restore the Darkness in much the same way as we are trying to restore the Traveler.

Perhaps now it's a race between Humanity and the allies of the Darkness to see who can piece their benefactor back together first.

Or several - dark versions of the other 3 classes. It fits with human nature ;-)

The T terraforms planets - the D's followers take them over.

It is not in the interests of the D's followers to destroy the T as it is a benefactor for them. It would be in their interests to make use of the D's help to surplant the T's current allies but not to the point of destroying the T. Their interests would be best served by encouraging the T to move on and Terraform other systems.

It may also be more beneficial for those who have been helped by the T to let go of narrow minded territoriality and to join with the D to force the T to move on so that they could colonise more systems. They would have to fight for the new systems and, perhaps, share them with others but a twenty percent stake in 5+ systems is a net gain. If guardians are very good at fighting then they would flourish under those conditions.

Could a T be reprogrammed or persuaded to make more Ts and to terraform uninhabited systems?

Although if they wanted to Bungie could have it made by some ancient humans, forerunners if you will, to make it a bit more mysterious.

:)

- Somehow we got the traveller to intervene.

I hadn't considered the idea that perhaps Humanity requested The Traveler's aid. I'd always thought of it as seeing our destruction and intervening. But we were a Golden Age system spanning people. It seems very possible if not tipping the scale slightly towards likely that our distress signals to each other, if not to The Traveler itself, are the things that got The Traveler's attention.

- Perhaps someone figured out how to control it?

That would be intriguing and a bit scary. Off that idea come the idea that controlling it was a bad thing and no wonder a group of aliens are now mad at us. It would also answer the question of what killing the last few million Humans would accomplish that killing the first several billion didn't.

- Or, perhaps the humans in destiny have forgotten, the traveller was a human creation all along and we sacrificed it to save ourselves. If that were the case, then the Traveller would likely have been some kind of top-secret project and everyone on board was killed in the final battle so that nobody knew it's true origins. Again, I'm thinking something kind of like Titan AE - the Titan was designed to create/terraform planets in that movie which is pretty similar to what the traveller did.

Yep. I'm thinking The Traveler was alien since it fits with my theory it is the thing that gave us FTL capability, but I agree that we can't rule out it being of Human design. Since it doesn't seem to have been designed in our system that would make its origin that much more interesting.

From looking at it I always felt like the bottom of the traveler was falling away due to good old fashioned gravity. I figure it got damaged, and over time the bottom started looking the worst of it because pieces are literally falling away in some of the pictures. Could be the Traveler is too damaged to upkeep or repair itself so, stuff is just over time (decades) slowly falling away.

...or are you falling towards it?"

Yep. While we have no evidence of this, I'd like to think this is what has happened.

From looking at it I always felt like the bottom of the traveler was falling away due to good old fashioned gravity. I figure it got damaged, and over time the bottom started looking the worst of it because pieces are literally falling away in some of the pictures. Could be the Traveler is too damaged to upkeep or repair itself so, stuff is just over time (decades) slowly falling away.

I prefer the idea of an outside power opposing the rise of humanity and the Traveler's mysterious aims in aiding us. Clearly, the galaxy is not devoid of life. If the various alien races are scavenging the ruins of humanity, for centuries if the quotes are accurate, then they cannot be sufficiently powerful in their own right. Otherwise the ability to mastermind the destruction of a solar system filled with people implies that they would have the resources to strip the conquered planets of everything of value in a relatively short time.

Right. What have these races been doing in our system for the past hundreds of years? If they just wanted our technology it seems like there'd be plenty in the ruins of our colonies. Why bother with the human city protected by the giant alien sphere at all? Either they're here specifically to wipe us out, or they want The Traveler and feel they can't get it (to protect it / destroy it / worship it / whatever) until they get rid of us. Or maybe something else is at work that we don't understand….

4. The fall took long enough that the great wall in old russia could be built, and was considered a viable defense.

The wall wasn't necessarily built after the fall started. Judging by its somewhat happy logo and the fact that its advertising says "Forward" or some such non-doom message I'd think the wall was built for other purposes. The recent Gamescon card about Old Russia, talked about how that spaceport was where man reached beyond the Earth and noting its promise (in the hopeful sense) is long gone. Perhaps it was built because of international tensions or because there were just too many wanting to colonize other planets. I don't think, however, it was built while Earth was under attack.

6. There is no debris from the force that engaged Humanity and the Traveler. Otherwise we would know more about them.

At least none that Bungie has told us about yet. I hope we do find remnants of the fall scattered about. Also, it's possible that races like The Fallen have already cleaned up most of said debris. I mean, if they can jump large warships and smaller dropships in above Old Russia why wouldn't they have scavenged the enemy's debris by now?

It would seem then that the enemy, for whatever reason liked to deploy units from orbit to the ground and did not engage in mass orbital bombardment, or maybe used WMDs sparingly (the cars outside old russia could have been hit by neutron bombs).

It's hard to say. All we've really seen of Earth beyond The City is one huge, tough looking wall, and a ton of old, possibly nuked cars. If the bulk of the enemy's forces were orbiting ships maybe they were smashed badly enough by The Traveler that the remains deorbited and largely burnt up / were lost in the oceans / scavenged by other races who apparently have at least some access to Earth's surface. The surviving enemy forces could have then retreated to where we wouldn't be able to easily find them.

Just thought about this: you're assuming the current bottom side of the Traveler has always been facing down. What if it was struck by such an orbital bombardment, got 'wrecked' while saving us, then turned the 'good' side up to keep up defenses?

If there was some massive civil war, why would the Traveler bother to intervene? Why now, and not at the other times human forces have battled during the Golden Age?

I prefer the idea of an outside power opposing the rise of humanity and the Traveler's mysterious aims in aiding us. Clearly, the galaxy is not devoid of life. If the various alien races are scavenging the ruins of humanity, for centuries if the quotes are accurate, then they cannot be sufficiently powerful in their own right. Otherwise the ability to mastermind the destruction of a solar system filled with people implies that they would have the resources to strip the conquered planets of everything of value in a relatively short time.

My thought is the current forces arrayed against humanity are the vultures of the universe, following along in the wake of the lion and stealing the scraps left behind.

So the real enemy has yet to reveal themselves. Yet from the art we've seen so far, we can deduce the following:

1. The enemy targeted humanity specifically, not caring about abandoned ships, cities, war material etc.
2. Humans thought they could escape via conventional (for the time) colony ships.
3. Humans fought using conventional weapons, i.e. tanks, planes, guns which only works if the enemy is somewhat susceptible to said weapons.
4. The fall took long enough that the great wall in old russia could be built, and was considered a viable defense.
5. Humans tried to escape from Earth, yet the last known survivors are on Earth with the Traveler.
6. There is no debris from the force that engaged Humanity and the Traveler. Otherwise we would know more about them.

It would seem then that the enemy, for whatever reason liked to deploy units from orbit to the ground and did not engage in mass orbital bombardment, or maybe used WMDs sparingly (the cars outside old russia could have been hit by neutron bombs).

I love this line of thinking. Why would we look up at the obviously damaged alien artifact hanging above our planet and place our trust in it? My first instinct would be to fear it!

Except, it does seem to be protecting The City. I think a good clue to look for will be how exactly Guardians get power from The Traveler. If it's some sort of process that The Traveler controls I'd put a bit more trust in its intentions. If it's more us Guardians tapping into its power or obviously stealing it then I'd be more wary. I'm personally hoping that The Traveler was / is on our side. It seems we have enough enemies already, I'd kinda like to have a friend, even if it is a silent one.

I like the idea of the Traveler being a sort of failed 2001-style Monolith. Something that comes to our system to raise us up out of the dirt and into a glorious existence, terraforming planets and creating new life forms. But perhaps he made a mistake, perhaps even gods can overestimate their powers, and what became the Fallen, Cabal, etc. turned against their creator and each other. To make up for his woeful interference, the Traveler sacrifices himself so that humanity, the original inheritors of the Sol System, can survive against an onslaught of his failed creations.

I'd love to journey into the sphere, finding some last glimpse of this regretful presence, that with his last few breaths is still trying to bestow some advantages to City's Guardians. Maybe that's why its time we have to journey out again and reclaim the Sol System, because very soon, we'll be truly on our own.

Except, it does seem to be protecting The City. I think a good clue to look for will be how exactly Guardians get power from The Traveler. If it's some sort of process that The Traveler controls I'd put a bit more trust in its intentions. If it's more us Guardians tapping into its power or obviously stealing it then I'd be more wary. I'm personally hoping that The Traveler was / is on our side. It seems we have enough enemies already, I'd kinda like to have a friend, even if it is a silent one.

Yep. At the bare minimum the Sol system went from one habitable planet to several. And yeah, I would agree the that The Traveler has probably traveled extensively.

What if the Traveler is an artifact from a civilization we've seen nothing else of yet? My thought is that the Traveler is a sort of terraforming drone that came to our system, and converted bodies in our system to be habitable, whether they be moons or planets, paving the way for the arrival of colony ships or the equivalent from its master race.

Now, the race could still exist, or could be extinct, and the Traveler could be carrying out all this work in vain. That aside, what if the Traveler had certain protocols to follow in maintaining the habitability of the bodies under its care?

What if humanity figured we just lucked out and took advantage of these newly terraformed (for free!) bodies? WOO GOLDEN AGE.

At a certain point, the environmental impact of our civilization would begin to degrade the habitability factor of these terraformed bodies. We could have tripped the Traveler's protocols and unwittingly initiated our own demise. The Traveler could have wrought havoc across the system and tried to stamp us out itself, simply following its protocols to maintain habitable environments for whenever its masters arrive. Letting nature reclaim all the "progress" we made.

Perhaps using its superior technology, it swept across our our colonies before we could react and burned us all the way down to the quick. Perhaps Earth just crippled it badly enough in the ensuing battle that it came to rest in its present location and couldn't fight any longer.

Now think about all the other opportunistic races that could have done the same thing Humanity did. The Fallen claim to have touched every place in the span of human civilization (paraphrasing). Maybe they just knew that program and swooped in after we'd been nuked to scavenge all our loot.

My guess is that maybe somehow someone in the city has determined either A) this whole truth, or at the very least B) that the Traveler is somehow continuing to wane in power, and that the City is on borrowed time, and the Guardians must venture out into the wilds in an attempt to either find a way to maintain the Traveler's power, or find a way for humanity to reach beyond Earth and begin the long slog to reclaim our system.

~M

It also would provide a gating mechanism for future expansion.

The old leaked Destiny contract talked about or referred to DLC as comets. Almost pure rampant speculation here, but maybe enemy forces are indeed blocked from entering our system but found a way to follow / ride comets in. Comets being naturally occurring objects that The Traveler might have marked as non-threats. By following them in from outside The Traveler's block maybe they cold then move about more freely.