If it took hours and hours to earn to a Bright Engram, you'd have a point, but as it doesn't . . .

They won't just get involved with the random/gambling aspect of it. For them to get involved it will get much, much deeper. And besides, there are already gambling laws on the books. I wouldn't be surprised if a legal case could be made around such things already.

Where's speedracer, isn't he a lawyer?

Your hypothetical where they just offer things for sale with no way to get them for fee would absolutely not be better. That’s all I’m saying.

But the whole 'earning them for free' part is a trap. It sounds good, but requires compromises to the game design. If you really can earn them for free by playing, and your game is good, nobody would buy anything because it would be more fun to play and not pay, than to not play and pay. Hence, the frictions.

This was wrong the first time you said it, and the second time, and the 1000th time. It's STILL wrong.

It will never be right.

There are tens of millions of gamers in this world. (Hundreds? Probably.) The idea that you can make a statement like that, and have it be right for all, or even a lot, of them, is ludicrous in the extreme.

Lots and lots and LOTS of people love to play, but have less free time than you have. Lots and lots and LOTS of people love to play, and have MORE free time than you have. Priorities are not set in a vacuum, and not everyone chooses to prioritize the same things. Multiple paths to the same goal is a POSITIVE situation, not a negative one. And you're 100% wrong when you say that if it's fun, some folks won't pay.

Your hypothetical where they just offer things for sale with no way to get them for fee would absolutely not be better. That’s all I’m saying.

But the whole 'earning them for free' part is a trap. It sounds good, but requires compromises to the game design. If you really can earn them for free by playing, and your game is good, nobody would buy anything because it would be more fun to play and not pay, than to not play and pay. Hence, the frictions.

You act as though they can’t include things to earn that are not available in the store. The progression is just never tied to real money. So earn away. It will be better because such a system would then be ostensibly designed with only fun in mind.

I don’t disagree with you. That would absolutely be better.

Your hypothetical where they just offer things for sale with no way to get them for fee would absolutely not be better. That’s all I’m saying.

I'm going to regret this, but... what frictions?

Cody thinks actually playing the game you paid for is a chore.

You're wrong on this one, Cody. People don't want to just buy things. Like it or not, folks like "earning" things by playing the game.

I would never spend $30 for a package of everything in the Eververse, and if we did it your way, I'd just never get to have any of that stuff. Bright Engrams are earned at such a reasonable rate, I would say calling it "friction" borders on hyperbole.

I can understand your hate for lootboxes and microtransactions, but your "compromise" is actively worse for tons of people.

You act as though they can’t include things to earn that are not available in the store. The progression is just never tied to real money. So earn away. It will be better because such a system would then be ostensibly designed with only fun in mind.

And I guess as a follow-up to my prior post on legislation:

https://kotaku.com/hawaii-state-rep-is-drafting-bill-barring-minors-from-b-1821136540

He wants people under the age of 21 to be prevented from buying games with loot boxes. This would be at the state level. And based on the age, Cody's idea of the ESRB smacking games with loot boxes into the AO category could be a pretty good alternative that keeps the government out of it. But it looks like this is definitely going to play out at the state level of government for the time being. The article goes into potential pitfalls and difficulties in regulation, too.

It's a good first step, and I also think there needs to be a gaming commission which gets to inspect the code and guarantee fair play in the loot rolls, as well as required gambling addiction pop-up warnings at the start of the games which include the number to a gambling counselor.

I'm going to regret this, but... what frictions?

Cody thinks actually playing the game you paid for is a chore.

You're wrong on this one, Cody. People don't want to just buy things. Like it or not, folks like "earning" things by playing the game.

I would never spend $30 for a package of everything in the Eververse, and if we did it your way, I'd just never get to have any of that stuff. Bright Engrams are earned at such a reasonable rate, I would say calling it "friction" borders on hyperbole.

I can understand your hate for lootboxes and microtransactions, but your "compromise" is actively worse for tons of people.

https://kotaku.com/hawaii-state-rep-is-drafting-bill-barring-minors-from-b-1821136540

He wants people under the age of 21 to be prevented from buying games with loot boxes. This would be at the state level. And based on the age, Cody's idea of the ESRB smacking games with loot boxes into the AO category could be a pretty good alternative that keeps the government out of it. But it looks like this is definitely going to play out at the state level of government for the time being. The article goes into potential pitfalls and difficulties in regulation, too.

Also I’m way too ugly to cheat on the dumb person dating me.

You are doing it right after all then ;-)

I for one think this is a terrible idea. I hate the idea of not being able to use my game time to get things over paying for it. I'm all for people buying stuff that they want to (as long as it doesn't affect the game and me) but I should be given the choice to spend any amount of hours of game time to get those same items.

Then have fun with a worse game because of the frictions.

With my idea, just buy the deluxe edition and you have everything.

I'm going to regret this, but... what frictions?

I get way too drunk twice a week, and the only long term benefit I get from that is liver damage.

You should also be getting sex. You must be doing it wrong.

But yeah, spend money on stuff you want to spend money on. I get way too drunk twice a week, and the only long term benefit I get from that is liver damage.

I for one think this is a terrible idea. I hate the idea of not being able to use my game time to get things over paying for it. I'm all for people buying stuff that they want to (as long as it doesn't affect the game and me) but I should be given the choice to spend any amount of hours of game time to get those same items.

Then have fun with a worse game because of the frictions.

With my idea, just buy the deluxe edition and you have everything.

I see this two ways:

1. Bungie is doubling down on their current crappy practices and is going full bore with more pay to win "features."

or

2. Bungie realizes that their current strategy isn't working and is looking for additional expertise/resources to do it better.

I'm inclined to think it is more 2 than 1, especially with all the negative sentiment regarding EA and their Battlefront screw ups. Bungie (and Activision) has to know that they could easily become the next microtransaction scapegoat and need to tread lightly.

I think the only sensible thing is this:

The Eververse and progression are completely separated. Items in the Eververse are cosmetic only, and cannot be earned in game. This eliminates the need to design 'frictions' into the game that make it worse for people who have no interest in cosmetics. This means doing away with Bright Engrams.

No boxes. Everything is purchased individually for a set price of real money. Do away with silver even.

The option to buy everything Eververse sells for a bundle price, perhaps 30 bucks. This should be included in special or ultimate editions of the game.

You're welcome Bungie. You can take that job posting down now, and it didn't cost you a thing!

I for one think this is a terrible idea. I hate the idea of not being able to use my game time to get things over paying for it. I'm all for people buying stuff that they want to (as long as it doesn't affect the game and me) but I should be given the choice to spend any amount of hours of game time to get those same items.

I see this two ways:

1. Bungie is doubling down on their current crappy practices and is going full bore with more pay to win "features."

or

2. Bungie realizes that their current strategy isn't working and is looking for additional expertise/resources to do it better.

I'm inclined to think it is more 2 than 1, especially with all the negative sentiment regarding EA and their Battlefront screw ups. Bungie (and Activision) has to know that they could easily become the next microtransaction scapegoat and need to tread lightly.

I think the only sensible thing is this:

The Eververse and progression are completely separated. Items in the Eververse are cosmetic only, and cannot be earned in game. This eliminates the need to design 'frictions' into the game that make it worse for people who have no interest in cosmetics. This means doing away with Bright Engrams.

No boxes. Everything is purchased individually for a set price of real money. Do away with silver even.

The option to buy everything Eververse sells for a bundle price, perhaps 30 bucks. This should be included in special or ultimate editions of the game.

You're welcome Bungie. You can take that job posting down now, and it didn't cost you a thing!