I would imagine it is one part not revealing the whole hand combined with not being fully locked in on what content they will fit in yet.

So, I agree with this and that's my thoughts as well. However, if this is true then they really shouldn't be offering it for pre-order if they can't give people a reasonable idea of what it actually is.

I'm pretty sure they are talking about it today in the TWAB (they said that didn't they?). I don't see too much problem with releasing it two days before they talk about it, I mean you can pre-order Fallout 76 RIGHT NOW, and that could be a Fallout-themed card game for all we know.

Yeah, and E3 is coming up so there will probably be clarification.

It's just that if they said "raid" I would already have my credit card out.

I would imagine it is one part not revealing the whole hand combined with not being fully locked in on what content they will fit in yet.

So, I agree with this and that's my thoughts as well. However, if this is true then they really shouldn't be offering it for pre-order if they can't give people a reasonable idea of what it actually is.

I'm pretty sure they are talking about it today in the TWAB (they said that didn't they?). I don't see too much problem with making it available for pre-order two days before they talk about it, I mean you can pre-order Fallout 76 RIGHT NOW, and that could be a Fallout-themed card game for all we know.

I would imagine it is one part not revealing the whole hand combined with not being fully locked in on what content they will fit in yet.

So, I agree with this and that's my thoughts as well. However, if this is true then they really shouldn't be offering it for pre-order if they can't give people a reasonable idea of what it actually is.

Play Rumble."

Well then...

I am really not experiencing what everyone else is.

Okay, Kermit.

Huh? What are you saying?

He's trying to invoke your name as if it's a slander rather than the compliment we all know it really is when one likens us to you.

Thanks for the compliment, and I suspect you're right about his intention. I prefer insults delivered explicitly and directly rather than in snide asides, though. All the better to acknowledge the fault or defend myself.

It's clear how he meant it, however you want to play your interpretation. And you know perfectly well why he puts it that way. There have been arguments outside this forum where you've taken a particular tack, much to his (and my) irritation. Given the same sets of facts, and similar intellectual abilities; you both draw disparate conclusions based on experience and perspective. As people do.

Let's not bring (or continue) the contention here, and let's not be disingenuous about recognizing the truth. The reason I (and I suspect many others) consider this place a home is the drastic difference in singal:noise.

Let's keep it that way.

~M

Is it clear?

Although I have my suspicions, I don't know perfectly well what Korny is thinking because I'm not psychic (similarly, I don't know what you mean by contention or truth). That's why I asked him for clarification--let's get to the nub of whatever it is he thinks my name is shorthand for.

No, this is precisely not the thing we're going to do. Because this is not the place. This is precisely what I warned you about. Take it elsewhere. I'm well aware that Korny invoked your name. It was not the comment that I would have made, but I've been granted some responsibility here, and I'm not about to let things devolve into a slugfest.

I mean, ban me for continuing if you must, and I wouldn't except I believe it's relevant to discussions here.

Except that you have the discretion to choose not to, and you press on anyway.

In my view, Korny's certainly guilty of the latter kind of arrogance in this thread, but I didn't engage him on that. I asked a simple question--what is he getting at by invoking my name?--a question I think I have a right to ask.

Do it elsewhere. The two of you go at it regularly enough outside of this forum, it should be clear by now. And if it's not and you want that clarity, sort it out like adults. Creating a spectacle here only serves to negatively impact this environment.

He can respond to me privately by the way.

Then I suggest you engage him privately.

Perhaps I need to be more explicit in my warnings; but then again, we're all reasonably intelligent individuals here. It shouldn't be necessary.

Thread locked.

~M

I would imagine it is one part not revealing the whole hand combined with not being fully locked in on what content they will fit in yet.

So, I agree with this and that's my thoughts as well. However, if this is true then they really shouldn't be offering it for pre-order if they can't give people a reasonable idea of what it actually is.

Play Rumble."

Well then...

I am really not experiencing what everyone else is.

Okay, Kermit.

Huh? What are you saying?

He's trying to invoke your name as if it's a slander rather than the compliment we all know it really is when one likens us to you.

Thanks for the compliment, and I suspect you're right about his intention. I prefer insults delivered explicitly and directly rather than in snide asides, though. All the better to acknowledge the fault or defend myself.

It's clear how he meant it, however you want to play your interpretation. And you know perfectly well why he puts it that way. There have been arguments outside this forum where you've taken a particular tack, much to his (and my) irritation. Given the same sets of facts, and similar intellectual abilities; you both draw disparate conclusions based on experience and perspective. As people do.

Let's not bring (or continue) the contention here, and let's not be disingenuous about recognizing the truth. The reason I (and I suspect many others) consider this place a home is the drastic difference in singal:noise.

Let's keep it that way.

~M

Is it clear?

Although I have my suspicions, I don't know perfectly well what Korny is thinking because I'm not psychic (similarly, I don't know what you mean by contention or truth). That's why I asked him for clarification--let's get to the nub of whatever it is he thinks my name is shorthand for.

I mean, ban me for continuing if you must, and I wouldn't except I believe it's relevant to discussions here. I've seen at least two kinds of arrogance on display--there's the old Cody kind of arrogance (that he doesn't indulges in as much anymore--that's a compliment, Cody), which is that my opinion is the absolute truth and no other point of view is worthy of acknowledgement. The second kind I'd characterize as assumed omniscience, not just about your own opinion and reasoning, but also about those who hold opposing opinions, their reasoning, their knowledge, their experience, the biases that led them to their wrong opinion, and what they really mean by what they say. People guilty of this kind often say things like "you know perfectly well why."

In my view, Korny's certainly guilty of the latter kind of arrogance in this thread, but I didn't engage him on that. I asked a simple question--what is he getting at by invoking my name?--a question I think I have a right to ask.

He can respond to me privately by the way. I'd like to hash it out because I think it could lead to a better friendship, and I'd rather not litter the forum with all this personal stuff, but he made it personal, and so did you.

One final point about argumentation in general. If I can't argue from both sides, if I can't summarize someone else's argument such that they agree with my summary, then I don't understand their argument, and I'm probably guilty of the kind of arrogance I've described. I state that from my point of view to remind myself that humility is a necessary component for listening and learning.

Kerm

The reference image has "endgame challenges" over top of the Raid icon. So I might extrapolate something of that nature.

Maybe. Prison of Elders was considered an 'Endgame Challenge', and I didn't find it even remotely as satisfying as a Raid (or even a Raid Lair).

(I'm not saying that's what's coming; I'm saying we don't have enough info to do any real extrapolation.)

Which is weird, because there really isn't enough info to know whether it's worth getting. My gut tells me it's probably going to disappoint (unless it contains a new raid), because whenever someone is vague about what they are selling it's probably because they want to hide something.

::sigh::

Or maybe they're being vague because it's June, and they don't want to shoot their wad quite yet.

But yeah, you're probably right, there's someone in the studio who said "we need to stay vague so Cody doesn't realize how disappointing this is before it's too late and he's bought it!"

You don’t have to shoot your wad to avoid being vague. You can say exactly what you are getting without giving it away. Are there new patrol zones and storm missions? That can be yes / no. Are there new raids? New PvP maps / modes? Record books? Etc. You can be specific about what you get without spoiling anything. The way Deej was talking about it was so dancing around the point and “PR” it was frustrating.

My biggest issue was simply staying alive. I feel like I had to focus so much on accomplishing that task, I could barely begin the task of actually observing what was happening and what we needed to accomplish collectively. The scoreboard on the wipe screen makes it pretty obvious what needs to happen, but we couldn’t keep a team alive long enough to attempt anything. No doubt we’d have gotten better with time, but here again, being underleveled adds another layer that I don’t find particularly fun or appealing. You’re right, in that I don’t feel a huge need to finish it now that I’ve seen it. We’re going to give it another shot on Sunday, but now I’m happy to wait until I level up some more.

It took us a long time to find a pattern that kept everyone alive long enough to do damage. I think we switched positions based on strengths and weaknesses, and made lots of other adjustments as well. Everybody had to execute perfectly. I think we played over at least two nights, too. I remember we had a very hard time doing the first round in the final room, but the next night we did it on the second try, maybe? So we got better. Sounds like you all did really well for your first night.

Sure, lost sectors were disappointments, but from a PVE perspective D2 improved greatly on most of D1. It's PVP that is the source of most of the complaints and most of the issue with Destiny. There are the hardcore streamer crowds that want "balance", grind, and prestige items.

This manifestly makes the game less fun for those whom cannot afford to play all week. D2 at launch was easier to get equipped then in D1, and so lots of the younger players got fed up and left after "achieving" everything they wanted in a month of relentless grinding.

The focus on these PVP players and their complaints has drowned out development of anything else in Destiny.

Play Rumble."

Well then...

I am really not experiencing what everyone else is.

Okay, Kermit.

Huh? What are you saying?

He's trying to invoke your name as if it's a slander rather than the compliment we all know it really is when one likens us to you.

Thanks for the compliment, and I suspect you're right about his intention. I prefer insults delivered explicitly and directly rather than in snide asides, though. All the better to acknowledge the fault or defend myself.

It's clear how he meant it, however you want to play your interpretation. And you know perfectly well why he puts it that way. There have been arguments outside this forum where you've taken a particular tack, much to his (and my) irritation. Given the same sets of facts, and similar intellectual abilities; you both draw disparate conclusions based on experience and perspective. As people do.

Let's not bring (or continue) the contention here, and let's not be disingenuous about recognizing the truth. The reason I (and I suspect many others) consider this place a home is the drastic difference in singal:noise.

Let's keep it that way.

~M

Play Rumble."

Well then...

I am really not experiencing what everyone else is.

Okay, Kermit.

Huh? What are you saying?

He's trying to invoke your name as if it's a slander rather than the compliment we all know it really is when one likens us to you.

Thanks for the compliment, and I suspect you're right about his intention. I prefer insults delivered explicitly and directly rather than in snide asides, though. All the better to acknowledge the fault or defend myself.

I'm with you and it's a bummer people couldn't wait, although I'm sure it's frustrating being ready and not playing (I've never been so far ahead for it to be an issue for me). I humbly suggest not fretting about everyone being at the official light level, which gives you the freedom to tackle it a wee bit sooner. Last week might have been the sweet spot, but it's hard to say.

Yeah... I'd disagree. Maybe for the first couple of encounters... but we were definitely underleveled this evening for the final encounter. (Well, what's PROBABLY the final encounter.)

375
384
369
368
383
376

I guess you could say "you can be lower than the official level for everything but the end"... but that's not really satisfying; you play, you get to a certain point, and you basically have to go earn some extra stuff so that you can play more. In instances like this, I can completely understand Cody's frustration with a grind.

If we'd waited until we were all at 380, I think it would have been playable all the way through, without a break.

With those light levels I think you could've have finished it with the proper care, practice, and plan, which I admit is hard work to formulate when everyone is still learning.

I say this having only gotten to the point of learning how to damage the final boss. All but two of us were below 370 (I think a few of us were in the 350s--nobody was 380 or higher). It took a bit to figure how to survive the ads, and it was certainly tough, but through strategic use of abilities and teamwork, we did it (I actually enjoy that situation and might have a greater tolerance for wipes than some). We realized that we did only about 1/6th damage and reasoned we needed to double it. We knew we couldn't finish, but we got what we came for, which was the blind experience. I've stated before that the latter is more important to me than killing the boss.

Big caveat: we had squid and Cruel when we were most successful--they're very talented players.

I'm with you and it's a bummer people couldn't wait, although I'm sure it's frustrating being ready and not playing (I've never been so far ahead for it to be an issue for me). I humbly suggest not fretting about everyone being at the official light level, which gives you the freedom to tackle it a wee bit sooner. Last week might have been the sweet spot, but it's hard to say.

Yeah... I'd disagree. Maybe for the first couple of encounters... but we were definitely underleveled this evening for the final encounter. (Well, what's PROBABLY the final encounter.)

375
384
369
368
383
376

I guess you could say "you can be lower than the official level for everything but the end"... but that's not really satisfying; you play, you get to a certain point, and you basically have to go earn some extra stuff so that you can play more. In instances like this, I can completely understand Cody's frustration with a grind.

If we'd waited until we were all at 380, I think it would have been playable all the way through, without a break.