OK. I read it last week. It's not so much that I disagree wit the main points, it's that I just am not nearly so impressed by the things that were there as he and in some cases I simply disagree VERY much about how successfully it was done (Finn's character development and Casino planet are the prime examples).

Personally, I liked Finn a lot and how they did her. She was different.

Eh?

Sorry, in my head I swap Finn and Rey sometimes for some reason. Just swap the names :D

And though I agree with you on the Casino scene, I also think people expect everything to tie into everything that is Star Wars. In my mind, that scene wasn't perfect but it was still good for what it was. It illustrated to me what some people fight for and how lopsided the galaxy is. It's not just always about the rebels and empire.

But it wasn't;t a scene. it was a sequence. Possibly the longest in the movie? I think much more than was needed to convey the idea that the poor and downtrodden dislike the wealthy who only think about them in so much as they exploit and abuse them (even despite American audiences seeming to have the opposite reaction in their own lives). Finn showed immediately in TFA that he was driven by empathy (and fear) I don't think we needed so much time for him to realize that economics can also oppress.

I hear a lot of people say that that entire sequence shouldn't have been in the movie. I disagree. I do agree with you that it could have been shorter, but it does add good substance to the entire movie as well as the universe.

More than any of it though, is I just never felt like I was really connecting to the characters very well. I know why they were doing things, mostly; and it made sense, mostly. It just felt kinda distant from me emotionally, and some of it seemed kinda unsupported by the earlier scenes (like Rose kissing Finn. I assume it was romantic, and if so, shoehorned in.). Many of these postmortems have referred to cut scenes that were informative, so I should go back and watch those on the Blu-Ray.

Personally I like the character development overall. I think they might have failed for some places, but overall good. And although people consider the original trilogy to be held as the standard, I never connected with Luke at all until maybe the end of Episode 5 and Episode 6. So I'm going to just keep going and see where the characters take us.

Agreed. Ep 4 Luke is a whiny exhaustion of a person. It works in the arc of his overall character, but it's tough to watch.

I want to say that I'm not a hardcore star wars fan. I just like the movies for what they are. And I'm always for improving things, but I'm not so zealous that I will condemn an entire move as horrible. I'm not saying you guys are, I've just heard it before.

OK. I read it last week. It's not so much that I disagree wit the main points, it's that I just am not nearly so impressed by the things that were there as he and in some cases I simply disagree VERY much about how successfully it was done (Finn's character development and Casino planet are the prime examples).

Personally, I liked Finn a lot and how they did her. She was different.

Eh?

And though I agree with you on the Casino scene, I also think people expect everything to tie into everything that is Star Wars. In my mind, that scene wasn't perfect but it was still good for what it was. It illustrated to me what some people fight for and how lopsided the galaxy is. It's not just always about the rebels and empire.

But it wasn't;t a scene. it was a sequence. Possibly the longest in the movie? I think much more than was needed to convey the idea that the poor and downtrodden dislike the wealthy who only think about them in so much as they exploit and abuse them (even despite American audiences seeming to have the opposite reaction in their own lives). Finn showed immediately in TFA that he was driven by empathy (and fear) I don't think we needed so much time for him to realize that economics can also oppress.

More than any of it though, is I just never felt like I was really connecting to the characters very well. I know why they were doing things, mostly; and it made sense, mostly. It just felt kinda distant from me emotionally, and some of it seemed kinda unsupported by the earlier scenes (like Rose kissing Finn. I assume it was romantic, and if so, shoehorned in.). Many of these postmortems have referred to cut scenes that were informative, so I should go back and watch those on the Blu-Ray.

Personally I like the character development overall. I think they might have failed for some places, but overall good. And although people consider the original trilogy to be held as the standard, I never connected with Luke at all until maybe the end of Episode 5 and Episode 6. So I'm going to just keep going and see where the characters take us.

Agreed. Ep 4 Luke is a whiny exhaustion of a person. It works in the arc of his overall character, but it's tough to watch.

OK. I read it last week. It's not so much that I disagree wit the main points, it's that I just am not nearly so impressed by the things that were there as he and in some cases I simply disagree VERY much about how successfully it was done (Finn's character development and Casino planet are the prime examples).

Personally, I liked Finn a lot and how they did her. She was different. And though I agree with you on the Casino scene, I also think people expect everything to tie into everything that is Star Wars. In my mind, that scene wasn't perfect but it was still good for what it was. It illustrated to me what some people fight for and how lopsided the galaxy is. It's not just always about the rebels and empire.

More than any of it though, is I just never felt like I was really connecting to the characters very well. I know why they were doing things, mostly; and it made sense, mostly. It just felt kinda distant from me emotionally, and some of it seemed kinda unsupported by the earlier scenes (like Rose kissing Finn. I assume it was romantic, and if so, shoehorned in.). Many of these postmortems have referred to cut scenes that were informative, so I should go back and watch those on the Blu-Ray.

Personally I like the character development overall. I think they might have failed for some places, but overall good. And although people consider the original trilogy to be held as the standard, I never connected with Luke at all until maybe the end of Episode 5 and Episode 6. So I'm going to just keep going and see where the characters take us.

Also, I simply disagree about his description of Ray's cave. It was not mirrors, it was slices of time, and as such none of the metaphor that he lays out makes sense.

Also, I can;t say how much it bothers me, but from the first showing I saw I continue to find it odd that so few character have so little agency in the story, and so many have none. I suppose that helps build a story of failure, but that's not how I feel when I see it. Success or failure, these are characters being tossed by the tides — forces they are too small to influence much at all. And that is weird.

To be clear, I still liked the film, but nowhere NEARLY as much as I like Force Awakens.

The cut in the film is perfect. Where's Han? --> Kylo Ren.

You don't need that scene.

Episode 3 only gets a pass because it's cool, because damn if it isn't bad at filling the holes between ep2 and ep4

I don't think it was meant to. The trilogy was meant to highlight the three most pivotal moments in Anakin's life that led him to become Vader. But we don't cover how we get from Day 1 Vader to A New Hope Vader...and it's sort of a hard sell. But we all accept it, because ANH Vader is OG and cool and stuff...

Exceptions made for reasons and all that.

You’ve seen Spider-Man Homecoming right? There were two scenes with Vulture that were cut out. Scenes which were good. Scenes which deepened his character and motivations. So why were they cut?

The scenes took place between the fight with the ferry and when Peter picked up MJ for the dance. Basically, with those scenes gone, the reveal when Peter opens the door is much more shocking and impactful. Because without those scenes, the audience ‘forgets’ about Vulture. So to have him come back that way made everything much more tense and unexpected than if you’d just seen him the scene before.

Now I don’t remember what it cuts to after Luke asks where Han is, but I do remember Luke’s feelings about Han’s death not mattering that much in the scheme of things. And that scene is all of 16 seconds. It’s not really enough to really let it sink in, but too long that it stops the movie while it’s happening.

It’s on Netflix, so maybe I’ll watch it again with this in mind!

The point is, even good scenes get cut because the movie has to come first.