I do think it is. But it does have a few key differences. The game is actually completely free to play. You only pay money for new characters, and you can actually get those decently easy for free.

I've unlocked every single character without paying anything for them. So while you can pay with money, you can also pay with in game currency that you earn by playing.

That gets more difficult the more you play, as the rewards for leveling up drop off at a certain point. Get to a high enough level, and earning a new character is probably not super realistic. If you play that much though, spending $12 on a new character probably isn’t a huge ask. Other than that, money only gets you cosmetics.

Where, "dropping off" is that everything is randomly given, and if you are randomly given something you already own you instead get in game currency that you can just unlock stuff.

I’m not typically a fan of that argument, as I don’t think there’s a clear line between cosmetics and gameplay—I firmly believe that if you can dress up your characters and gear then that is inherently gameplay. Unlike Destiny, though, there are no gameplay implications tied to your gear at all. No perks, no stats. It is just a skin. All events are entirely free, you don’t have to buy the season pass to participate in anything, it’s only to buy into the seasonal reward track. I still think that’s silly—paying for the privilege to grind out cosmetics isn’t great.

Both for Apex, and Dota 2. I've always bought their season pass, or other things to support the game company. They are both free games and I like the game. I also play Marvel Contest of Champions on my phone, but that company is evil, so I won't give them a dime even if their game is great.

The game still heavily relies on fear of missing out and limited availability, and I think that is predatory and problematic. It’s not something I can explain away, but it does not bother me as much as how Destiny works. I can easily spend no money on Apex and still enjoy the entire game.

I honestly am curious on where exactly the line is drawn. Is it literally that you can't stand games that have limited event items? Or that there are also options to buy said items for money? If it's the later, than what about if there are events that have limited event items (like Apex free events) that you can't buy? Is okay for people to spend unhealthy amounts of time instead of money?

I know I've mentioned this before, but time and money are both currencies in my mind. Some people have more of one than the other. And both can be used unhealthily.

That’s not true in Destiny, and it really feels to me like Bungie is trying to play both sides of saying the game is free to play, but you also still have to pay for these totally amazing (give me a break) seasonal activities. If you don’t pay, you get a skeleton of a game and can’t actually play current content with your friends, but if you do pay you get a bunch of half-baked activities that just push you to spend more money in the Eververse.

I just won't condemn all timed events because some people feel "forced" to spend money to finish it. Nor do I say that all companies who use it predators. I gave Apex as an example of a game where I don't feel that is true. Yes, Destiny has felt more like it. But I don't think it's fair to just give a blanket statement to all Battle passes. Again, this is just my side of the story. I'm sure there are others who have different experiences and feelings that make it feel evil.

The game still heavily relies on fear of missing out and limited availability, and I think that is predatory and problematic. It’s not something I can explain away, but it does not bother me as much as how Destiny works. I can easily spend no money on Apex and still enjoy the entire game. That’s not true in Destiny, and it really feels to me like Bungie is trying to play both sides of saying the game is free to play, but you also still have to pay for these totally amazing (give me a break) seasonal activities. If you don’t pay, you get a skeleton of a game and can’t actually play current content with your friends, but if you do pay you get a bunch of half-baked activities that just push you to spend more money in the Eververse.

The season pass is completely disconnected from the actual expansions. They just give you the current season for free with an expansion purchase.

If you bought one on the last day of the season, I imagine you’re just out of luck. Just wait into the new season starts if that’s important to you. Otherwise each season is ten dollars.

Looking this all up I'm still getting conflicting reports. The season pass DOES seem to contain activities, and non cosmetic items.

Yes? Vortech already said that he buys the season pass specifically for the activities and doesn't really consider if he manages to get all of the season pass progression loot.

All the better I quit I guess.

If that works for you, I'm happy for you.

The season pass is completely disconnected from the actual expansions. They just give you the current season for free with an expansion purchase.

If you bought one on the last day of the season, I imagine you’re just out of luck. Just wait into the new season starts if that’s important to you. Otherwise each season is ten dollars.

Looking this all up I'm still getting conflicting reports. The season pass DOES seem to contain activities, and non cosmetic items.

All the better I quit I guess.

If you bought one on the last day of the season, I imagine you’re just out of luck. Just wait into the new season starts if that’s important to you. Otherwise each season is ten dollars.

So if you buy shadowkeep and the season you get ends, do you have to buy a new pass for the next season? What if you buy shadowkeep a day before the season ends?

No clue, but I'd strongly advise you to not do that.

If you miss the season pass, you'll still get the Shadowkeep campaign, Pit of Heresy, Vault of Grass, Nightmare Hunts, etc, but you'll miss whatever that season is putting out as exclusive (this current season has what, an Exotic that free players can't get?)

It’s a one time deal. If you bought Shadowkeep, you got that current season for “free.” You could also just buy the season without Shadowkeep.

If you happen to not have an expansion, they’ll also give you the current season if you buy an expansion.

So if you buy shadowkeep and the season you get ends, do you have to buy a new pass for the next season? What if you buy shadowkeep a day before the season ends?

You must play to get items from the season pass level progression, and AFAIK you can't buy your way into season pass items.

You can straight up buy levels in the season pass for a dollar a pop. Bungie thinks those items are ostensibly worth $100.

If you happen to not have an expansion, they’ll also give you the current season if you buy an expansion.

You get access to the current season pass whenever you buy one of the expansions listed above.

So if you buy the expansions, you don't need the season pass? Who buys the season pass? People who don't have the expansion? I'm still confused about what you get when you buy it and who needs to buy it. Do you have to buy a new season pass every season? How long are the seasons?

Last Wish, scourge and Crown of sorrow require forsaken. Garden Requires Shadowkeep. All earlier raids are free content.

Shattered throne needs Forsaken; Pit of sorrow requires Shadowkeep.

There are also some gear and weapons that will not drop unless you buy expansions.

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None of the above things require Season passes, and season pass activities (which only sometimes exist and are distinct from the free to all seasonal events) and gear are only available while the season is active. The vast majority of the seasonal gear is cosmetic, but the pre-determined gear unlocks sometimes also include gear introduced as new in a season but available from random drops. The Cosmetic items do not show up in random drops. You must play to get items from the season pass level progression, and AFAIK you can't buy your way into season pass items. You get access to the current season pass whenever you buy one of the expansions listed above. Some gear is not available from the season pass progression but will only be available from drops or bounties during that season. (I can only think of Mods, here?) Some weapons and gear are introduced in a season, but continue to be part of the loot pool after the season ends (I'm thinking mostly of exotics)

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I had never really considered the idea that I paid for something but didn't get to have it because the season changed. I don't think it feels all that different to me than when I missed out on one of the free events because I was too busy (Arbalest was but a dream for me for a while) But I do now see how it is, now that you mention it. I never felt like I was buying those items with my season pass money, though. I don't feel like they are owed to me. I don't know. In general I have felt it was a bit odd for them to lock out content based on date. The game is - in general - better for having more in it, though obviously more gear leads to balancing issues and more activities leads to matchmaking issues.

Does everyone have access to the same power cap now? I remember Korny being stuck at 750 for ages before crossplay, but I think I remember they opened that up to everyone. If not that would be the obvious issue with Trials, like it was in Iron Banner. Sure, it’s technically free for everyone, but if you can’t get to the appropriate power level, you can’t really play it.

I have two friends who are New Light players, just dipping their feet into Destiny for the first time. Both are above 950 at this point.

I think all the raids are still connected to whichever expansion they were originally paired with. You need to own Forsaken to do The Last Wish.

I'm pretty sure this is true, and that "Garden of Salvation" requires Shadowkeep, but not the current Season Pass.

The content of each Season Pass has mostly been:
1. A horde mode vaguely tied to some story stuff
2. Some sort of bounty station(s) to "upgrade" which give more drops and unlocks season-specific mods
3. An exotic "quest" or two
4. A 100 level reward sequence, which includes seasonal armor, weapons, and normal materials. Non-season pass owners also get a limited version of this with less drops.

For me personally, I got everything out of each season I could possibly get, and have no desire to ever return to the horde modes that have since been removed from the game. The mods have stuck around after the season, and it seems like the weapon and armor drops have sort of be re-added as world drops.

Does everyone have access to the same power cap now? I remember Korny being stuck at 750 for ages before crossplay, but I think I remember they opened that up to everyone. If not that would be the obvious issue with Trials, like it was in Iron Banner. Sure, it’s technically free for everyone, but if you can’t get to the appropriate power level, you can’t really play it.

So I am confused.

If I were to download Destiny today, and not pay for the battle pass, could I go into trials or a raid? In other words, the only thing paying gets you is a shot at earning cosmetic items?

Yes, you could play Trials (though that may change in a future season, see yesterday's TWAB). No, you couldn't raid (or at least not do the most recent raid - I'm not sure about older ones).

EF was talking about Battle Passes in general, not specifically Destiny's season pass. There are definitely non-cosmetics in that.

If I were to download Destiny today, and not pay for the battle pass, could I go into trials or a raid? In other words, the only thing paying gets you is a shot at earning cosmetic items?