DBO Forums - Luke has always been a giant butt https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/ Bungie.Org talks Destiny en Luke has always been a giant butt (reply) https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169661 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169661 Tue, 05 May 2020 14:50:44 +0000 Destinysomeotherguy “Fix Trials” indeed (reply) I miss the D1 weapon loadout system tbh

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169660 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169660 Tue, 05 May 2020 08:13:54 +0000 DestinySpec ops Grunt
“Fix Trials” indeed (reply)

Would you be cool with custom Shaders for the Flawless run? Naturally would prob need a little more than that, but would that give you that "meaningful" need of the Adept without the game breaking features?

I like shaders, and that would be cool, but for me it wouldn’t be enough. Just my personal opinion here, but I think it really has to be weapons. Adept weapons specifically. And while I do understand the fear that you can’t make them truly special without making them too good, Bungie has pulled it off in the past. Like many things related to Trials, the very first batch of adept weapons in D1 were perfect, because the “adept” perk didn’t give them a PvP bonus at all. The adept weapons were all elemental primaries. They just took the standard versions of the primaries, which were already fantastic PvP guns, and gave them a little PvE boost. This was such a smart approach, for several reasons. It gave the adept weapons an extra level of desirability without giving them any kind of PvP advantage, plus the elemental damage played well into the whole “trophy” aspect of loot because anyone playing with you could see by the colour of your ballistics that you were using an elemental primary. It stood out and looked special. But then Luke Smith decides that elemental primaries had to go, and we started getting adept weapons with intrinsic PvP perks, and it was never as good after that. Man, that dude really seems to enjoy taking my favourite things about Destiny and removing them, lol.

Now, I know we can’t just have “elemental primaries” as adept weapons in D2, since the whole system is different now. But something in that spirit would, IMO, be the right move. Something that takes great PvP guns and makes them a little better than they currently are for PvE.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169608 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169608 Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:19:45 +0000 DestinyCruelLEGACEY
Fix it in Post (reply)

That said, with six years of making this "loot" game, it's kinda shocking how they missed the mark. It's all just pretty damning either way I suppose. Shame.


There is a key component here in understanding whether something is "testable," which I supposed would be obvious -- but I guess I presumed too much...

We all do it, no hard feelings. ;D

Sure, they could obviously test the "1s and 0s" of loot drops in a test environment, BUT they could not truly use that environment to actually see what the real players' actions would be in the live version in a case like this (where we're talking about top-tier loot from end-game activities). The players that are driven to farm Trials of Osiris for that pinnacle loot are not going to treat a placebo loot drop from a test realm the same way (and those players generally aren't even going to bother with playing on the test realm anyway). It's like playing poker for a material sum of real money vs playing for no money at all -- it's psychologically impossible to treat both the same.

Indeed, in this case the very root of the problem here is that in the current Trials reward system, you have no real incentive to keep going for flawless tickets throughout the weekend; you're actually incentivized to keep resetting your ticket after three wins to more efficiently farm the loot table; which results in the playlist population remaining saturated at the lower levels with players that should be in the higher levels, and thus disincentivizing your average player to even keep trying.

This is a situation which, while I believe it should have been obvious to the designers from a basic philosophical standpoint, is not something you can chalk up to "they should have used the test realm to figure this out."

Does that make sense?

So... in short, "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy"? No no, I should be more blunt, YES, it does make sense. I get it, I got it, and yet I disagree. It's odd, I get the sense that we are both aiming at the same thing, but in an angle which is slightly different. You're telling me the elephant is a like rope, and I'm saying it's like a tree-trunk. Perhaps, a difference philosophical motivation? Yours in rule & scripture, and mine in the infinitude of imagination & possibilities. Yes? Eh.

Boiling this down, the (inital) question was this; How does one create the environment to test what is required for the intended result? I was even so inclined to bother giving a (brief?) answer to it for the sheer fun of it. Yet, with consideration, I must indeed ask (thanks to your post) did Bungie even need to?

Bungie should have had out from years of experience a ballpark to aim for in what sociological action was to occur with their system as it launched at the start of Season of the Worthy. And that doesn't even need a test realm! That's a thought experiment at minimum. Existing data! 6 or 7, I keep mixing it up, years of 24 hour data. The actions we the players made alone in D1 with the "Loot Cave" was enough of a hint for that. (Which I use in example since I can't seem to recall all the other instances, other then that there were instances.)

It is unfortunate, among all this supposition of what happened & what could have been done better, there is little further data to go off of. I at least can't say what they did internally, and why they tested what they did externally. All I have to go off of is what experience I have and the instinct which grew from it, which sadly doesn't seem to translate very well as some random (some times too much :P) internet poster. So I will just say this; For a digital industry where problem solving is a core aspect, PLUS the time they had to use (which I recall in years), PLUS importance of the task for the health of the game... the end result we got is as surprising as it is disappointing.

Should, would, could. My, how exhausting.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169604 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169604 Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:20:19 +0000 DestinyINSANEdrive
“Fix Trials” indeed (reply) Would you be cool with custom Shaders for the Flawless run? Naturally would prob need a little more than that, but would that give you that "meaningful" need of the Adept without the game breaking features?

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169594 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169594 Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:00:11 +0000 DestinyChrisTheeCrappy
Fix it in Post (reply) But didn’t they know? Remember that video where they said they wanted players to find the fastest way to farm glimmer? When your game is made on acquiring loot people are going to try to acquire loot as quickly as possible.

So just design your activity so the absolute most efficient way to accomplish whatever goal you set out of the player is to play the activity normally.

If you are giving the player one super per match, and telling the player to get super kills in rumble, then the most efficient thing is to use your super once, quit, and start a new game ASAP. So, it means go back to the drawing board. Oh, the best way to get tokens is to keep resetting a card? Back to the drawing board.

You can easily imagine how players will try to optimize, and if it’s a shitty thing just change it.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169593 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169593 Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:14:25 +0000 DestinyCody Miller
Fix it in Post (reply)

The idea that they have a test realm, but they couldn't test something is... well, aforementioned. Pure Glmmer. White Green & Blue kit. Detestation materials or bright dust of different amounts. All that is needed is something to fill in the slot. Shoot, it could be be nothing! Placeholder pink, purple, and green cards with a "Thank you" on it. It's a place to TEST! But you can't test something in it!?!?

Oh! They couldn't test the loot system of the loot game! SURE.

That said, with six years of making this "loot" game, it's kinda shocking how they missed the mark. It's all just pretty damning either way I suppose. Shame.

There is a key component here in understanding whether something is "testable," which I supposed would be obvious -- but I guess I presumed too much...

Sure, they could obviously test the "1s and 0s" of loot drops in a test environment, BUT they could not truly use that environment to actually see what the real players' actions would be in the live version in a case like this (where we're talking about top-tier loot from end-game activities). The players that are driven to farm Trials of Osiris for that pinnacle loot are not going to treat a placebo loot drop from a test realm the same way (and those players generally aren't even going to bother with playing on the test realm anyway). It's like playing poker for a material sum of real money vs playing for no money at all -- it's psychologically impossible to treat both the same.

Indeed, in this case the very root of the problem here is that in the current Trials reward system, you have no real incentive to keep going for flawless tickets throughout the weekend; you're actually incentivized to keep resetting your ticket after three wins to more efficiently farm the loot table; which results in the playlist population remaining saturated at the lower levels with players that should be in the higher levels, and thus disincentivizing your average player to even keep trying.

This is a situation which, while I believe it should have been obvious to the designers from a basic philosophical standpoint, is not something you can chalk up to "they should have used the test realm to figure this out."

Does that make sense?

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169592 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169592 Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:49:12 +0000 DestinySpeedracer513
I dunno dude (reply)

I think it's totally fair to respond to the contents of the post specifically.

Like, you're right that he doesn't need to quote the whole article verbatim. But if you highlight some key points, and someone responds to those key points that's abaolutey on you. You don't get to be indignant that someone reaponded to the information you gave.

The real play would be to own it and just provide the missing information, rather than get uppity.

Edit: Damn, I forgot uppity has some darker connotations in the US. Only learnt that recently. Sorry about that word use.

I mean, I think that is more personal forum etiquette. If you don't choose to follow the link that the OP linked then how are you supposed to know what he is talking about? As you said, he can't quote the entire article, or even most of it. And if you don't follow the link, that's your personal choice to not know exactly what is being discussed. But I think it's bad form to call someone out on it.

I mean, it's honestly how much convenience he is giving you.

1. He writes everything down in his post (is there a character limit?)
2. He links the article
3. He lets you find the article

I personally think it's silly to copy paste the entire article. So he is doing the next, most convenient thing for his reader.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169588 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169588 Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:33:19 +0000 DestinyMacAddictXIV
I dunno dude (reply) I think it's totally fair to respond to the contents of the post specifically.

Like, you're right that he doesn't need to quote the whole article verbatim. But if you highlight some key points, and someone responds to those key points that's abaolutey on you. You don't get to be indignant that someone reaponded to the information you gave.

The real play would be to own it and just provide the missing information, rather than get uppity.

Edit: Damn, I forgot uppity has some darker connotations in the US. Only learnt that recently. Sorry about that word use.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169586 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169586 Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:25:09 +0000 Destinysomeotherguy
Thank you MacAddictXIV. (reply) https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169585 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169585 Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:10:01 +0000 DestinyINSANEdrive Fix it in Post (reply)

This is where Overwatch does something that I would love Bungie to create; PTR (Public Test Region). A server/Mode with the main purpose of testing in-progress code. Then again, they do have something like that don't they? If I'm recalling that right, I wonder why they didn't use it? I guess it would be for the glory of surprise, but it was a pretty open secret that Trials was to return in one form or another.


Indeed, Bungie does this already and openly used Crucible Labs last season for this purpose by featuring different variations of Elimination all season long -- specifically so they could figure out which iteration would be best for the return of Trials.

The problem here is that the game mode itself isn't the problem.

As Cruel said earlier, the original 3v3 Elimination mode is still great! It's the structure of the bounties and reward system that are destroying the playlist - and that's something that you can't really test in a "PTR" in a live, loot-based game like Destiny. ...

Balderdash. Hogwash. Complete and utter nonsense. ...I get ahead of myself. Thank you for the reminder of the name. Crucible Labs!

The idea that they have a test realm, but they couldn't test something is... well, aforementioned. Pure Glmmer. White Green & Blue kit. Detestation materials or bright dust of different amounts. All that is needed is something to fill in the slot. Shoot, it could be be nothing! Placeholder pink, purple, and green cards with a "Thank you" on it. It's a place to TEST! But you can't test something in it!?!?

[image]

Oh! They couldn't test the loot system of the loot game! SURE.

That said, with six years of making this "loot" game, it's kinda shocking how they missed the mark. It's all just pretty damning either way I suppose. Shame.

...Unfortunately, that isn't enough to excuse Bungie in this case either, because the things we all hate about the way Trials is right now should have been obvious consequences of the structure they decided to go with.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169584 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169584 Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:03:48 +0000 DestinyINSANEdrive
Breath (reply)

Did you read the part where it says; "For example, you may be asking 'What about Adept weapons?'"


You mean the bit that isnt mentioned in your post at all?

He linked the article as the very first thing in his post. Then he summarized some points from said article. If you didn't read the article that is being discussed, that's not on him.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169563 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169563 Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:14:31 +0000 DestinyMacAddictXIV
Breath (reply)

Did you read the part where it says; "For example, you may be asking 'What about Adept weapons?'"

You mean the bit that isnt mentioned in your post at all?

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169559 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169559 Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:57:00 +0000 Destinysomeotherguy
Fix it in Post (reply)

This is where Overwatch does something that I would love Bungie to create; PTR (Public Test Region). A server/Mode with the main purpose of testing in-progress code. Then again, they do have something like that don't they? If I'm recalling that right, I wonder why they didn't use it? I guess it would be for the glory of surprise, but it was a pretty open secret that Trials was to return in one form or another.

Indeed, Bungie does this already and openly used Crucible Labs last season for this purpose by featuring different variations of Elimination all season long -- specifically so they could figure out which iteration would be best for the return of Trials.

The problem here is that the game mode itself isn't the problem.

As Cruel said earlier, the original 3v3 Elimination mode is still great! It's the structure of the bounties and reward system that are destroying the playlist - and that's something that you can't really test in a "PTR" in a live, loot-based game like Destiny. Unfortunately, that isn't enough to excuse Bungie in this case either, because the things we all hate about the way Trials is right now should have been obvious consequences of the structure they decided to go with.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169555 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169555 Sun, 26 Apr 2020 15:26:17 +0000 DestinySpeedracer513
“Fix Trials” indeed (reply) ViDocs are marketing videos. They are not documentaries that accurately reflect the process and feeling of making the game. At least not anymore.

Treat everything you hear from a ViDoc these days as marketing hype.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169552 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169552 Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:11:36 +0000 DestinyCody Miller
Fix it in Post (reply)

I think they thought they'd nailed it. Hence the whole “We want to make sure we really stick the landing with Trials. It’s important that this doesn’t come out half-baked” line from the ViDoc (boy, I bet they regret that one, lol). I think the Trials community's near-unanimous outcry over what a huge blunder this has been is impossible for Bungie to ignore at this point, so they have no choice but to say that they're looking into it, at the very least (I'm also sure there have been more than a few "I TOLD YOU SO!"s going around within Bungie). Again, I could totally be wrong here. But if I am wrong, that would mean Bungie knew that Trials was coming out half-baked.

Knowing it was "half-baked" is plausible, though the phrase I'd use is good enough. Running with this idea, the downside of creation in a bubble (since you can't say anything to the internet in a official capacity without it suddenly becoming a "guarantee" where none exists) is that the ideas grow in their own ecosystem. I'd be one to wager that, if one of us had the chance to NDA up the ability to test in house, that it would feel ready out of sheer sample size. Fun, among one another. "No Plan Survives Contact with the Enemy", or in Bungies case, the sheer range in numbers. It has to be good enough to play well, then fix what is missed with the new data.

Problem is, it wasn't good enough, and they had two years to get it there. Woof.

This is where Overwatch does something that I would love Bungie to create; PTR (Public Test Region). A server/Mode with the main purpose of testing in-progress code. Then again, they do have something like that don't they? If I'm recalling that right, I wonder why they didn't use it? I guess it would be for the glory of surprise, but it was a pretty open secret that Trials was to return in one form or another.

Besides the fact that this would make them bold-faced liars...

It's not a lie if you actually believe it. Marketing or not, I want to say they believed it. They put their names on it.

...it also strikes me as unlikely due to the fact that they really need Trials to be a hit. This season is the thinnest chunk of content they've ever released. They needed Trials to carry it. I don't think they would have shipped it unless they thought it was ready. And that right there is the cornerstone of all my concerns around Bungie right now. It worries me that a studio like Bungie, with all their talent and creativity, would look at this iteration of Trials and say to themselves "It's ready. Lets ship it". Because if their collective judgement is in fact that far off the mark, then I can't trust anything they say. If they come out next week and say "we've got it figured out! We've got a whole overhaul ready for Trials, it will go live next season, and it'll be awesome", well, I'll just be waiting for the first day it goes live and the community finds a bunch of equally obvious problems as we have right now.

Amen on that.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169550 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169550 Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:06:24 +0000 DestinyINSANEdrive
“Fix Trials” indeed (reply)

Bungie: “We want to make sure we really stick the landing with Trials. It’s important that this doesn’t come out half-baked”

Trials loot table for April 24:

• 3 Wins (Powerful): Chest
• 5 Wins (Powerful): Eye of Sol, Sniper Rifle
• 7 Wins (Pinnacle): Exile's Curse, Fusion
• Flawless (Pinnacle): Chest

That’s right, the reward for going Flawless this week is literally the exact same drop as the reward for 3 wins.

Sorry guys, but if the devs responsible for bringing back Trials have so little understanding of the activity that they allowed it to ship like this in the first place, I don’t trust them to know how to fix it. I hope they do, but I’m not holding my breath.


All three of my characters are at 1009, missing exactly one piece to advance to 1010. (Boots on my Titan and Warlock, Helmet on my Hunter.)

They were all there before I did any pinnacle activities this week.

I've gotten 22 pinnacle drops so far this week (8 on my Warlock, 7 each on my Titan and Hunter), and none of them filled that missing slot on any character.

Chappy is in worse shape than I am - he's at least one full week ahead of me (maybe 2) in terms of being one piece short, and he gets more pinnacle drops than I do (he does the raid 3 times, adding 12 drops/week).

The idea of a guaranteed pinnacle drop in a SPECIFIC SLOT would make me work really hard to get to the lighthouse. (This week there's no point, but if boots or helmet show up before I complete...)


I’d have a huge problem with this entire approach, were Bungie to shift that way. I’m totally with you when it comes to the frustration of reaching the level cap when RNG just wont give you the drop you need, but there are other, better ways to overcome that problem (like some kind of automatic slot prioritization when it comes to pinnacle drops). The problem with this bring THE primary reward for going to the Lighthouse is that 2-3 months later, it’s gone. Meaningless. Heck, it might be even faster than that. You might get the drop in the slot that you needed a few days later.

My Adept Trials weapons in D1 meant something. They were great guns, but they were also trophies, pieces of memorabilia. Every single time I equipped and used any of those weapons, my experience of earning them was brought to the forefront of my mind. And that’s very compelling for me. It’s the same reason I use Not Forgotten all the time, even in high-level PvE activities where it is FAR from the most effective option. It’s because the climb to Legend meant something to me. It’s an experience that I’m happy to hold on to, and having an in-game physical avatar for that experience that I can use while fighting the darkness is, IMO, one of the best things about Destiny. Replacing stuff like that with a slightly more efficient way to climb to the top of an ever resetting and repeating light level climb reduces it to the point of being meaningless, IMO.


Hey, I'm with you on this. I love the idea of adept weapons coming back. (Apparently, so does Bungie - there's discussion of them as Trials rewards in the latest TWAB.) I wasn't saying that a fixed pinnacle roll is the perfect long-term solution - I was saying that it's not even remotely stupid at this particular stage in the season. (I'm ahead of probably 95% of destiny players in terms of maxing light, and I'm not there yet.)

You suggested that it's idiotic that the 3-win reward and the 7-win reward this week were the same, except for light level. I was simply pointing out that a different perspective might see that situation as less than idiotic. I wasn't for a minute suggesting that that should be the way it goes every week. I don't think Bungie is, either.

There are a few big unknowns that make it tough for me to say anything with certainty. So what I'm about to say is based on several educated guesses and partial assumptions :)

In a vacuum, I totally agree that a path towards a specific pinnacle in a specific slot is a fine, perhaps even a great idea. But I don't believe for a moment that this was Bungie's intention. It looks to me like all the Trials loot items are put into a pool, and each week the 3, 5, 7, and Flawless rewards are pulled at random. I don't think that the pinnacle drop being the same item as the 3 win drop is intentional... I think Bungie's loot system for Trials is a trainwreck in part because it makes situations like this week's loot selection possible. It could just have easily been the chest piece at 3 and 7 wins, or 3 and 5, in which case you wouldn't even have the benefit of one of these drops being higher level than the other. So while I could get behind the idea that Bungie knows the current loot setup isn't ideal, but this is something they're trying in the meantime, I see no evidence to support the possibility that this is what's happening. As I already mentioned, it looks to me like the evidence points towards the loot being totally random in its distribution from week to week (for example, the class item has only ever been available once, but the chest piece has been available 4 times now). So I think the whole idea of this being by design is a non-starter.

Even if I'm totally wrong about all that, it still seems kinda crappy to me. What we're basically talking about here is the latest iteration of the whole "forever 29" problem from vanilla D1. It's a problem that absolutely does not need to exist, aside from the fact that Bungie keeps designing it into their progression system. It could be countered any number of ways. Drop slot protection, cross-slot infusion, slot selection when completing pinnacle activities, etc. The only reason this problem exists is because Bungie wants it to exist, because it keeps people logging in more hours to repeat activities more than they otherwise might. So the whole idea of them saying "As a reward for completing one of the greatest challenges in the game, we're going to let you get passed this arbitrary barrier that we've put into our progression system to juice more playtime out of our players" just strikes me as scummy. Stuff like that would make me want to stop playing, not play more. Just my personal thoughts on that, no shade intended on anyone who feels differently <3

On the subject of Adept weapons, this is where my skepticism of Bungie could very easily come across as overly negative, but hear me out :) I'm sure there are plenty of discussions and conflicting opinions within the studio about all of this stuff. When when it comes to the powers that be (the ones who get final say on this stuff), I don't believe for a moment that they "love the idea of adept weapons coming back". I think they thought they'd nailed it. Hence the whole “We want to make sure we really stick the landing with Trials. It’s important that this doesn’t come out half-baked” line from the ViDoc (boy, I bet they regret that one, lol). I think the Trials community's near-unanimous outcry over what a huge blunder this has been is impossible for Bungie to ignore at this point, so they have no choice but to say that they're looking into it, at the very least (I'm also sure there have been more than a few "I TOLD YOU SO!"s going around within Bungie). Again, I could totally be wrong here. But if I am wrong, that would mean Bungie knew that Trials was coming out half-baked. Besides the fact that this would make them bold-faced liars, it also strikes me as unlikely due to the fact that they really need Trials to be a hit. This season is the thinnest chunk of content they've ever released. They needed Trials to carry it. I don't think they would have shipped it unless they thought it was ready. And that right there is the cornerstone of all my concerns around Bungie right now. It worries me that a studio like Bungie, with all their talent and creativity, would look at this iteration of Trials and say to themselves "It's ready. Lets ship it". Because if their collective judgement is in fact that far off the mark, then I can't trust anything they say. If they come out next week and say "we've got it figured out! We've got a whole overhaul ready for Trials, it will go live next season, and it'll be awesome", well, I'll just be waiting for the first day it goes live and the community finds a bunch of equally obvious problems as we have right now.

I do hope I'm 100% wrong about all of this. I know I'm coming down hard on them right now, but that's only because they're one of the great development studios, and they've set their own bar high. The past ~year of D2 has looked like amateur hour in a lot of ways. I know they can do better, and frankly, they need to do better because they're bleeding players.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169549 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169549 Sun, 26 Apr 2020 01:18:21 +0000 DestinyCruelLEGACEY
“Fix Trials” indeed (reply)

Bungie: “We want to make sure we really stick the landing with Trials. It’s important that this doesn’t come out half-baked”

Trials loot table for April 24:

• 3 Wins (Powerful): Chest
• 5 Wins (Powerful): Eye of Sol, Sniper Rifle
• 7 Wins (Pinnacle): Exile's Curse, Fusion
• Flawless (Pinnacle): Chest

That’s right, the reward for going Flawless this week is literally the exact same drop as the reward for 3 wins.

Sorry guys, but if the devs responsible for bringing back Trials have so little understanding of the activity that they allowed it to ship like this in the first place, I don’t trust them to know how to fix it. I hope they do, but I’m not holding my breath.


All three of my characters are at 1009, missing exactly one piece to advance to 1010. (Boots on my Titan and Warlock, Helmet on my Hunter.)

They were all there before I did any pinnacle activities this week.

I've gotten 22 pinnacle drops so far this week (8 on my Warlock, 7 each on my Titan and Hunter), and none of them filled that missing slot on any character.

Chappy is in worse shape than I am - he's at least one full week ahead of me (maybe 2) in terms of being one piece short, and he gets more pinnacle drops than I do (he does the raid 3 times, adding 12 drops/week).

The idea of a guaranteed pinnacle drop in a SPECIFIC SLOT would make me work really hard to get to the lighthouse. (This week there's no point, but if boots or helmet show up before I complete...)


I’d have a huge problem with this entire approach, were Bungie to shift that way. I’m totally with you when it comes to the frustration of reaching the level cap when RNG just wont give you the drop you need, but there are other, better ways to overcome that problem (like some kind of automatic slot prioritization when it comes to pinnacle drops). The problem with this bring THE primary reward for going to the Lighthouse is that 2-3 months later, it’s gone. Meaningless. Heck, it might be even faster than that. You might get the drop in the slot that you needed a few days later.

My Adept Trials weapons in D1 meant something. They were great guns, but they were also trophies, pieces of memorabilia. Every single time I equipped and used any of those weapons, my experience of earning them was brought to the forefront of my mind. And that’s very compelling for me. It’s the same reason I use Not Forgotten all the time, even in high-level PvE activities where it is FAR from the most effective option. It’s because the climb to Legend meant something to me. It’s an experience that I’m happy to hold on to, and having an in-game physical avatar for that experience that I can use while fighting the darkness is, IMO, one of the best things about Destiny. Replacing stuff like that with a slightly more efficient way to climb to the top of an ever resetting and repeating light level climb reduces it to the point of being meaningless, IMO.

Hey, I'm with you on this. I love the idea of adept weapons coming back. (Apparently, so does Bungie - there's discussion of them as Trials rewards in the latest TWAB.) I wasn't saying that a fixed pinnacle roll is the perfect long-term solution - I was saying that it's not even remotely stupid at this particular stage in the season. (I'm ahead of probably 95% of destiny players in terms of maxing light, and I'm not there yet.)

You suggested that it's idiotic that the 3-win reward and the 7-win reward this week were the same, except for light level. I was simply pointing out that a different perspective might see that situation as less than idiotic. I wasn't for a minute suggesting that that should be the way it goes every week. I don't think Bungie is, either.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169545 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169545 Sun, 26 Apr 2020 00:06:03 +0000 DestinyClaude Errera
“Fix Trials” indeed (reply)

Bungie: “We want to make sure we really stick the landing with Trials. It’s important that this doesn’t come out half-baked”

Trials loot table for April 24:

• 3 Wins (Powerful): Chest
• 5 Wins (Powerful): Eye of Sol, Sniper Rifle
• 7 Wins (Pinnacle): Exile's Curse, Fusion
• Flawless (Pinnacle): Chest

That’s right, the reward for going Flawless this week is literally the exact same drop as the reward for 3 wins.

Sorry guys, but if the devs responsible for bringing back Trials have so little understanding of the activity that they allowed it to ship like this in the first place, I don’t trust them to know how to fix it. I hope they do, but I’m not holding my breath.


All three of my characters are at 1009, missing exactly one piece to advance to 1010. (Boots on my Titan and Warlock, Helmet on my Hunter.)

They were all there before I did any pinnacle activities this week.

I've gotten 22 pinnacle drops so far this week (8 on my Warlock, 7 each on my Titan and Hunter), and none of them filled that missing slot on any character.

Chappy is in worse shape than I am - he's at least one full week ahead of me (maybe 2) in terms of being one piece short, and he gets more pinnacle drops than I do (he does the raid 3 times, adding 12 drops/week).

The idea of a guaranteed pinnacle drop in a SPECIFIC SLOT would make me work really hard to get to the lighthouse. (This week there's no point, but if boots or helmet show up before I complete...)

I’d have a huge problem with this entire approach, were Bungie to shift that way. I’m totally with you when it comes to the frustration of reaching the level cap when RNG just wont give you the drop you need, but there are other, better ways to overcome that problem (like some kind of automatic slot prioritization when it comes to pinnacle drops). The problem with this bring THE primary reward for going to the Lighthouse is that 2-3 months later, it’s gone. Meaningless. Heck, it might be even faster than that. You might get the drop in the slot that you needed a few days later.

My Adept Trials weapons in D1 meant something. They were great guns, but they were also trophies, pieces of memorabilia. Every single time I equipped and used any of those weapons, my experience of earning them was brought to the forefront of my mind. And that’s very compelling for me. It’s the same reason I use Not Forgotten all the time, even in high-level PvE activities where it is FAR from the most effective option. It’s because the climb to Legend meant something to me. It’s an experience that I’m happy to hold on to, and having an in-game physical avatar for that experience that I can use while fighting the darkness is, IMO, one of the best things about Destiny. Replacing stuff like that with a slightly more efficient way to climb to the top of an ever resetting and repeating light level climb reduces it to the point of being meaningless, IMO.

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169536 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169536 Sat, 25 Apr 2020 21:17:42 +0000 DestinyCruelLEGACEY
“Fix Trials” indeed (reply)

Bungie: “We want to make sure we really stick the landing with Trials. It’s important that this doesn’t come out half-baked”

Trials loot table for April 24:

• 3 Wins (Powerful): Chest
• 5 Wins (Powerful): Eye of Sol, Sniper Rifle
• 7 Wins (Pinnacle): Exile's Curse, Fusion
• Flawless (Pinnacle): Chest

That’s right, the reward for going Flawless this week is literally the exact same drop as the reward for 3 wins.

Sorry guys, but if the devs responsible for bringing back Trials have so little understanding of the activity that they allowed it to ship like this in the first place, I don’t trust them to know how to fix it. I hope they do, but I’m not holding my breath.

All three of my characters are at 1009, missing exactly one piece to advance to 1010. (Boots on my Titan and Warlock, Helmet on my Hunter.)

They were all there before I did any pinnacle activities this week.

I've gotten 22 pinnacle drops so far this week (8 on my Warlock, 7 each on my Titan and Hunter), and none of them filled that missing slot on any character.

Chappy is in worse shape than I am - he's at least one full week ahead of me (maybe 2) in terms of being one piece short, and he gets more pinnacle drops than I do (he does the raid 3 times, adding 12 drops/week).

The idea of a guaranteed pinnacle drop in a SPECIFIC SLOT would make me work really hard to get to the lighthouse. (This week there's no point, but if boots or helmet show up before I complete...)

]]>
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169533 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=169533 Sat, 25 Apr 2020 19:23:53 +0000 DestinyClaude Errera