I'm enjoying having multiple viable loadout now, part of that is due to the refresh of y1 guns with new perks (feeding frenzy / multikill clip last hope anyone? Yes please.)

Sun setting armor seems unnecessary to me. The mod option was enough to make someone decide if it was worth keeping that piece of masterwork armor around. It takes me forever to masterwork things because the shards are hard for me to get (just dont get the chance to run high lvl strikes much given the tiny size of the ps4 clan and my schedule).

I actually kinda miss the Thorn meta. Which maybe speaks to how Destiny isnt the pvp game for me. But I really liked the balanced playing field in Trials. Everyone had the same shit, which really made it a game of positioning, communication and skill.

Except for all the people who didn't have Thorn, or hated hand cannons. Which was this guy right here. So that was an especially trying time for me.

And remember when they made shotguns actually viable in PvE for like 10 minutes?!?!

I remember it was single-handedly responsible for my first relaxed VoG run. Every run before the shotgun buff was frantic as hell for me, even with good fusion rifles.

I also saw Scouts, Handcannons and ARs in ever game outside of Trials. Pulses less so but they were around for sure (Red death says hi)

The first (pre-crota, shotgun/AR meta) and second (post-crota, fusion/HC meta) sandboxes were also a tonne of fun, mind. And remember when they made shotguns actually viable in PvE for like 10 minutes?!?!

Those aren’t problem weapons by any measure, but they’re still being taken away because Bungie can’t be bothered to intelligently design Pinnacle weapon perks that aren’t broken.

I just don’t buy that as a good excuse. High level activities are the bulk of what you’re expected to do in Destiny. You can’t power up any other way, you can’t get Masterworking materials any other way. Like, great, I can go shoot some dregs on EDZ with my old weapons. Hurray! It’s a technicality that allows them to say that they’re not actually taking our gear away, they’re just taking it way from any activity that’s actually worth doing.

I'm not saying it's an excuse. And honestly It's hard for me approach what you are feeling about what they are doing to your pinnacle weapons. I can at least partially understand that. But what I'm saying is that this new way of doing things still allows you to play with a gun for a whole year at high level activities. After that, you can use it for everything past high level activities (or keep using it at a slight disadvantage).

They drop the light level of guns every season, but a single gun from release to dropping of light level is a year. I honestly can't think of a legendary gun I've used for a whole year due to meta and changes. Exotics? Sure, I've used several for more than a year, but they aren't going to be affected. I love my breakneak, but I honestly have changed auto rifles, my favorite type of weapon, at least once a year. And I honestly will probably change from my breakneak.

I know pinnacle weapons are different and they definitely will have to change how they are gotten to make it less of a heartbreak to separate from them for high level activities.

I’ve long been an advocate for just playing Destiny for fun and ignoring loot. That’s counter to the base design of Destiny, but it largely worked to make the bullshit inherent to Destiny feel less bad.

However, loot is obviously and important motivator for parts of Destiny. The season I got both Luna’s Howl and The Recluse was some of the most fun I’ve had in the game, and the season that taught me to love the Crucible. That journey was worth it for its own sake, but it’s also a journey I would not have undertaken if those guns weren’t at the end of it. Likewise, Loaded Question is one of my favorite guns in the entire series, and that’s a journey I absolutely would not have undertaken if the gun wasn’t there. Why would I continue to go on those journeys for weapons with a limited lifespan? Hell, I think Luna’s Howl was basically a year old when I actually got it.

While I’ve personally had to quit trying to cheat certain things to avoid the feeling of grind, I do think the rewarding weapons can work really well to push players to try things they otherwise might not. My Crucible journey for Luna’s and Recluse is the perfect example. It’s something I would never do again for gear with an expiration date.

And what if old activities. Forges will now reward gear that’s functionality useless. So will Reckoning. Will world drops even from old locations like The Dreaming City be updated to drop new weapons, or is it just not worth going there at all anymore?

I'm not really in the Destiny scene much anymore. But I guess I just want to add a couple notes to this. As someone who worked for and loves Loaded Question, I will be disappointed when I can't use it to its full effectiveness in the future. My two points to this is that We can still use it for anything that isn't really Light oriented. So no more raiding with it... but most other things like roaming the world we can still use it! And then my second point is that this will really depend on what kinda of new pinnacle weapons they create and also how hard they are to get. If they still make interesting weapons that aren't REALLY hard to get in a season, I could be okay with this.

However, loot is obviously and important motivator for parts of Destiny. The season I got both Luna’s Howl and The Recluse was some of the most fun I’ve had in the game, and the season that taught me to love the Crucible. That journey was worth it for its own sake, but it’s also a journey I would not have undertaken if those guns weren’t at the end of it. Likewise, Loaded Question is one of my favorite guns in the entire series, and that’s a journey I absolutely would not have undertaken if the gun wasn’t there. Why would I continue to go on those journeys for weapons with a limited lifespan? Hell, I think Luna’s Howl was basically a year old when I actually got it.

While I’ve personally had to quit trying to cheat certain things to avoid the feeling of grind, I do think the rewarding weapons can work really well to push players to try things they otherwise might not. My Crucible journey for Luna’s and Recluse is the perfect example. It’s something I would never do again for gear with an expiration date.

And what if old activities. Forges will now reward gear that’s functionality useless. So will Reckoning. Will world drops even from old locations like The Dreaming City be updated to drop new weapons, or is it just not worth going there at all anymore?

Tlaloc dominated my crucible highlights.

Wow, that's amazing you had access to Tlaloc in House of Wolves! And yeah, MIDA got good… AFTER HOUSE OF WOLVES. The context of my statement was in the House of Wolves meta.

Okay, I don't remember when Tlaloc dropped - but Mida was good IN YEAR 1.

Tlaloc dominated my crucible highlights.

Wow, that's amazing you had access to Tlaloc in House of Wolves! And yeah, MIDA got good… AFTER HOUSE OF WOLVES. The context of my statement was in the House of Wolves meta.

TTK saved the story and loot chasing mechanics.

TTK ruined the sandbox balance. It was perfect in Y1 HoW.

House of Wolves was CLOSE. But man, do you not remember the utter dominance of the exotic hand canons? If they had been toned down JUST A LITTLE BIT, it would have been perfect.

I remember the (un)Holy Trinity of Thorn, Last Word, and Hawkmoon absolutely devastating everything else... until Trials rolled in, and I got The Messenger :)

Thing is, as dominant as those hand cannons were, they kept special weapons in check. Taken King was where Bungie really leaned into the idea that primary weapons all needed to have super specific engagement distances, which basically turned them all into less effective special weapons. So Scout Rifles were only useful at sniper ranges, but they lost to sniper rifles. ARs were only good at Fusion Rifle ranges, but lost to fusion rifles, etc.

As a result of this though, hand cannons were by and large the best primaries to use in nearly every situation. Even legendary ones. You never saw scout or autos, and only occasionally pulses like Messenger. But at the end of the day, we may not have had complete balance, but we had FUN. And you always choose fun over balance.

Good lord, your memory is selective.

Mida NEVER stopped being great in PvP in D1. It was powerful in the early days, it was powerful when we stopped playing, it was powerful all the way through. I went back through my late D1 saved vids, and Tlaloc dominated my crucible highlights. I used pulses more than autos, but my Soulstealer's Claw has a couple of thousand crucible kills on it.

Your use of words like 'never' make me CRAZY. I saw scouts and autos in nearly every game. I saw almost EVERY weapon type in nearly every game.

TTK saved the story and loot chasing mechanics.

TTK ruined the sandbox balance. It was perfect in Y1 HoW.

House of Wolves was CLOSE. But man, do you not remember the utter dominance of the exotic hand canons? If they had been toned down JUST A LITTLE BIT, it would have been perfect.

I remember the (un)Holy Trinity of Thorn, Last Word, and Hawkmoon absolutely devastating everything else... until Trials rolled in, and I got The Messenger :)

Thing is, as dominant as those hand cannons were, they kept special weapons in check. Taken King was where Bungie really leaned into the idea that primary weapons all needed to have super specific engagement distances, which basically turned them all into less effective special weapons. So Scout Rifles were only useful at sniper ranges, but they lost to sniper rifles. ARs were only good at Fusion Rifle ranges, but lost to fusion rifles, etc.

As a result of this though, hand cannons were by and large the best primaries to use in nearly every situation. Even legendary ones. You never saw scout or autos, and only occasionally pulses like Messenger. But at the end of the day, we may not have had complete balance, but we had FUN. And you always choose fun over balance.

I mean, they like screwing us Drillers over every other update, but hey, ROCK AND STONE!

I think we all know the plasma charger needed a nerf. And you're the only ones with C4 now, so no complaining from you!