What implications does this have for PvP? Sounds like Icarus on steroids.

It’s nice for PvP, but not crazy OP or anything. It’s more like the catalyst helps make up for the weapon’s worst weakness; it’s too slow to be much good at close range. It’s default rate of fire is 120RPM, and it typically requires 3 shots to get a kill (3 crits in most cases, 2 crits + 1 body against low resilience guardians). That puts its TTK at 1 second, which is decent but nothing crazy.

The catalyst boosts the hipfire RPM to 150RPM, or roughly 0.8 second TTK, which is more competitive with the faster TTK weapons in the sandbox. But it’s worth mentioning that this gun’s real PvP strength is as a mid-long range teamshot weapon. It has great handling, and some of the best target acquisition in the game. It makes it great for countering snipers or locking down sight lines that are just a bit too pong for hand cannons or pulse rifles.

But all of that is without getting into the gun’s main exotic perk; chaining quick crit hits applies a buff to the gun which stacks up to x5. With each stack, you increase the gun’s damage and reload speed. The damage boost is significant enough to be meaningful in PvP. At x5, you can potentially 2-shot kill low resilience guardians. So again, in teamshot scenarios where you have 1 or 2 guardians using Dead Man’s Tale (along with a friendly sniper, or some other Scout Rifle), you can very effectively lock down longer sightlines.

I actually played some MCC recently, just to check out the Series X upgrades (I played some Halo 3 and some Reach, both of which look absolutely gorgeous). Right away, I was struck by how much I missed the sensation of running and jumping while firing my weapons, all with a nice, open visual field. I like scoping in on targets when it feels appropriate, but Destiny has such an over-the-top accuracy penalty when hip-firing that you have to ADS with most weapons pretty much all the time.

Long story short, if you miss the more traditional Halo-style gunplay of hip-firing your weapons even at mid-to-long range, I’d highly recommend putting in the time to get yourself a Dead Man’s Tale, along with the catalyst.

ps

If you’re on a Warlock, Dead Man’s Tale + Chromatic Fire exotic chest piece = a real good time :)

Maybe they could do something similar to what they’ve done with Presage, where the default mission has no timer, but the Master difficulty level does?

Right on :)

I’d love more of those timed missions in the future as well

Counterpoint: After ten-ish attempts, I was never once able to finish the Zero Hour mission, and I blame that entirely on the fact that it was on a countdown timer.

When it first dropped, I was under-leveled / the enemies were too hard. Months (years?) later, before Beyond Light, every LFG group I joined would quit after any member fell more than two times. Never got further than the electric wall.

I really, really, really appreciate that these new missions aren't on a timer.

I fully agree with you on this point - I'm generally a 'slow but steady' guy, and the timer kills me.

As a minor counterpoint, though, we ran through the Master Presage last night (which HAS a 25 minute timer), and failed twice... the third attempt was successful. And it felt pretty satisfying. So sometimes, timers are good. :)

I think this is the best case scenario: the easy/default version is un-timed and the more skillful version has a timer. That seems reasonable to me.

I’d love more of those timed missions in the future as well

Counterpoint: After ten-ish attempts, I was never once able to finish the Zero Hour mission, and I blame that entirely on the fact that it was on a countdown timer.

When it first dropped, I was under-leveled / the enemies were too hard. Months (years?) later, before Beyond Light, every LFG group I joined would quit after any member fell more than two times. Never got further than the electric wall.

I really, really, really appreciate that these new missions aren't on a timer.

I fully agree with you on this point - I'm generally a 'slow but steady' guy, and the timer kills me.

As a minor counterpoint, though, we ran through the Master Presage last night (which HAS a 25 minute timer), and failed twice... the third attempt was successful. And it felt pretty satisfying. So sometimes, timers are good. :)

I’d love more of those timed missions in the future as well

Counterpoint: After ten-ish attempts, I was never once able to finish the Zero Hour mission, and I blame that entirely on the fact that it was on a countdown timer.

When it first dropped, I was under-leveled / the enemies were too hard. Months (years?) later, before Beyond Light, every LFG group I joined would quit after any member fell more than two times. Never got further than the electric wall.

I really, really, really appreciate that these new missions aren't on a timer.

Yeah, I totally get that. The time limit is one of those double-edged swords. IMO it’s a big part of what makes those missions so special, but it’s clearly a significant barrier to entry as well. Running with a fireteam of people you know is a huge benefit. It’s too bad those missions are gone now; I’d be happy to run them with you any time, if we could.

I think Bungie has done a great job creating Harbinger and Presage as missions that feel just as special as Zero Hour or Whisper, but are more accessible to a wider range of players. But I do also feel that these new missions aren’t the same thing as Zero Hour or Whisper... they don’t scratch the same itch. I’d love to see more of both in the future. Maybe they could do something similar to what they’ve done with Presage, where the default mission has no timer, but the Master difficulty level does?

I’d love more of those timed missions in the future as well

Counterpoint: After ten-ish attempts, I was never once able to finish the Zero Hour mission, and I blame that entirely on the fact that it was on a countdown timer.

When it first dropped, I was under-leveled / the enemies were too hard. Months (years?) later, before Beyond Light, every LFG group I joined would quit after any member fell more than two times. Never got further than the electric wall.

I really, really, really appreciate that these new missions aren't on a timer.

Stuff like this is absolute peak Destiny PvE for me. I put it right up there with Dungeons, Raids, and the secret/timed missions (Whisper and Zero Hour). I also think it’s worth pointing out that I appreciate the breadth of high-level PvE activities Bungie has created. Missions like Harbinger and Presage are distinctly not the same kind of mission as Whisper/Zero Hour (I’d love more of those timed missions in the future as well, but I think it was smart to do something different in this case). I think both Harbinger and Presage are more like dungeons than anything else, but a bit smaller in scale, with some clever replayability factors built in. 1 mission like this more than justifies the cost of a season pass for me.

• In the section with the double electric walls I found myself fruitlessly looking around back and forth for ultimately no reason because I thought I missed something. There is a door that I thought I needed to open, that turned out I did not.
  
• After going back and forth I finally gave in and looked online for "what switch I missed". Turned out I didn't miss any. Kind of stole some fun from the moment.

I'm a little lost on what you're griping about here - are you saying that it's Bungie's fault that you didn't notice the door you opened? (I'm not positive which section you had trouble with; both sides of the electric walls have puzzles, the first one is simpler than the second.) In all cases in this mission, if I found a switch or a fuse, and flipped it or shot it, it opened something. In one case, a shot fuse regenerated itself - which made me realize that whatever it opened was temporary. But if the switch stayed flipped, or the fuse stayed blown, I knew that there was a door open that hadn't been open before. It was just a matter of finding it. And I loved the fact that each time I had difficulty finding a fuse/switch, the information I gained when I finally DID discover it helped me in future sections.

See, you played Marathon so you had an unfair advantage :-p

• In the section with the double electric walls I found myself fruitlessly looking around back and forth for ultimately no reason because I thought I missed something. There is a door that I thought I needed to open, that turned out I did not.
  
• After going back and forth I finally gave in and looked online for "what switch I missed". Turned out I didn't miss any. Kind of stole some fun from the moment.

I'm a little lost on what you're griping about here - are you saying that it's Bungie's fault that you didn't notice the door you opened? (I'm not positive which section you had trouble with; both sides of the electric walls have puzzles, the first one is simpler than the second.) In all cases in this mission, if I found a switch or a fuse, and flipped it or shot it, it opened something. In one case, a shot fuse regenerated itself - which made me realize that whatever it opened was temporary. But if the switch stayed flipped, or the fuse stayed blown, I knew that there was a door open that hadn't been open before. It was just a matter of finding it. And I loved the fact that each time I had difficulty finding a fuse/switch, the information I gained when I finally DID discover it helped me in future sections.

• To the folks who designed this portion, please go back and study level 1-1 of practically any classic Mario game. Dishonor on You. Dishonor on Your Cow. Thank you.

I have to disagree here. This was quite a lot of fun, and if you leave aside the silly design (hell, you'd have to do that in any classic Mario game, too - none of that stuff makes any sense from a practical standpoint), I found the puzzles to be eminently solvable, and actually satisfying. Someone on a recent run mentioned that they liked the fact that ALL grates were shootable, not just the ones you needed to pass through; that's a fantastic touch that isn't always included in areas like this (in Destiny or other games).

Sorry you found it frustrating and contrived. :(

I felt the similarity to Halo as well, but aren't the hangers (and control room) in this mission basically straight copies of the Red War story mission where you kill Thumos?

I had totally forgotten about that. Yup, it’s basically the same geometry.

I got vibes from both of these locations on my playthrough. The end was straight up Keys though.

... on that note, this reminds me of something. I did feel some Halo flashbacks in the Hanger portion which has a very similar layout. Not 1-to-1, but very similar. At first I thought of it as a call back, because deep down I wanted it to be, but it's not (there is no door where the Hunters would be coming out). After all, it's a hanger. How many versions of it's purpose can there be?

Yeah, I noticed the similarity. Notes of the hangar in Cairo Station, too, I thought.

Also... I don't think you want the flood, but the thrill in fighting the flood. A mix of space magic meets Lovecraftian horror. I swear, if we get another "Spooky" infinite forest this year I'll... *wait*, can we? Mercury is gone. Hmm. Guess we'll see.

I genuinely love Halo 3 Flood. An expanded version of that with the reanimating mechanics and the different forms changing could be legitimately amazing.

Finally, with all the environmental tidings we have on this ship, I now feel like I can finally ask this; WTF is that thing behind Drifter in the room we are in before you spawn into a Gambit game? Or if that is too much, the stuff that was on the derelict that we now see all over this ship? What IS that?

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but . . . I hope it’s the Flood. Almost literally. I think a good space zombie enemy could be amazing in Destiny. The Taken feel like they’re supposed to be that, but it’s not quite the same. I think Halo 3 Flood almost exactly would be great in Destiny as a third party enemy in any encounter, especially with the reanimation aspect.

... on that note, this reminds me of something. I did feel some Halo flashbacks in the Hanger portion which has a very similar layout. Not 1-to-1, but very similar. At first I thought of it as a call back, because deep down I wanted it to be, but it's not (there is no door where the Hunters would be coming out). After all, it's a hanger. How many versions of it's purpose can there be?

Also... I don't think you want the flood, but the thrill in fighting the flood. A mix of space magic meets Lovecraftian horror. I swear, if we get another "Spooky" infinite forest this year I'll... *wait*, can we? Mercury is gone. Hmm. Guess we'll see.