The gun sucks in crucible. SUCKS.

Uh, no it doesn't... I mean, it's still a sidearm, but jesus christ in a wheelbarrow, does it pack a punch within range. Freezing people on command isn't too shabby either.

On another note, the catalyst quest for this ice pistol. Good grief. It's obviously a PvE weapon but you have to kill guardians in the crucible. The gun sucks in crucible. SUCKS. And I hate crucible, yet I've still killed 100 guardians with it. Somehow. Ugh. sucks.

My Titan looks like a titan (a la D1). My Warlock has a few really cool robes and helmets (Previous ornaments work for all other slots). My hunter functionally has two looks (an outlander rogue and a formal ceremonial outfit). I don't anticipate needing to chase things forever to unlock a deeper wardrobe.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of players are going to fit my experience.

I know, I know. It's a problem they manufactured. Bungie could have just made it all unlocked from the get-go. They are actively encouraging people to spend more time playing the game. The convoluted unlocking of materials is super-dumb. These are things that I would love to not be there. But... They probably are going to be losing money from seasonal ornaments as a result of this and it they're probably looking to supplement the loss from that.

On the other hand, I look the way I like (with zero effort), and I will easily get more options down the line (most of which I'll never need) just by playing. Eh. My experience is pretty different from what I was expecting when they initially announced the great material hunting hamster wheel of doom.

None of my experience discounts anyone else's and I'm not saying that it's not a problem because it doesn't impact me. My experience just feels a bit out of pace with the reactions I'm seeing online.

I reached a threshold long ago with Destiny where my eyes glaze over when things get too complicated. I'll try for the exotics I think I might need/sometimes want, but when I hear "play seven hours for a piece of armor," I know I'm already not going to go for that stuff. I simply don't play enough.

I've enjoyed the paper doll aspect of Destiny less as the years have rolled on (I do love the DSC armor). What was practical weighed more heavily, and I stopped caring what I looked like. Tranmog could have changed that, but as is, nothing has changed for me. I don't see more than my gloves 95% of the time, and could anyone who plays regularly with me recognize me in the Tower. I think not. Would I recognize anyone else? No. I used to play with shaders some, but I guess that's no longer just a funsie thing. Oh well.

It's funny that the last Bungie game where I felt my armor with integral to my character was when I imagined myself a special agent fighting insurgents on an ice planet.

Many fewer options then. And man, did I have fun. When the fun stops, I will stop playing.

I think it's becoming pretty clear that whatever they are doing over there at Bungie HQ, it costs a heck of a lot

And yet, the game went free to play. Why don't they just, you know, charge for the game and make money that way? Weird concept, I know.

Even WITH all the refunds, CDPR made an absolute assload of money with Cyberpunk 2077. It can be done clearly.

Maybe there point wasn’t clear.

If you want more and get more by playing more, it’s functionally the same as if the ornaments were priced in time. If you earn one synth thingy per 2 minutes, then it’s not really any different if you were just given the ornament after playing for X minutes. They are just abstracting the system in which the real currency is your time.

Again...

Letting people know "It will take about 7 hours to earn a piece of armor" will keep a lot of people from even starting.

Telling people "It will cost 150 Synthstrand to buy a bounty to earn enough Synthweave for a piece of armor" sounds far more reasonable.

Yes… this is my point. You are 100% correct. So they are dressing up something that they KNOW people would otherwise not like, rather than changing it to something they would that would require no subterfuge.

But c’mon, do they really have to monetize fucking everything? They already sell universal ornaments. Now they are going to sell me the ability to use sets I already have?

I’m not against microtransactions. I’ve bought plenty of eververse stuff, I’ve bought stuff in Warframe and Apex Legends. But this transmog system feels really egregious and it sucks. Especially since they were literally out there talking about making it a system that felt good. What happened to that?

I think it's becoming pretty clear that whatever they are doing over there at Bungie HQ, it costs a heck of a lot. I think they'd be better off acknowledging that and communicating in a way that would seem less disingenuous, but maybe that's too far outside the box.

The answer that is to avoid "farms" where people feel obligated to play differently to earn the most strand. Right now just playing normally gets you the most possible strand you can get.

Then why even have it? It's literally just an abstracted 'time played' counter at that point.

Do you REALLY need that question answered?

Because if you want more, you play more. That's good for the company. If you don't care about the product (or the feature that the product affects), you can skip the extra playing and simply not earn it. That way, Bungie can say "we're not forcing anyone to do anything - we're just giving people an incentive to play more."

That's hard to argue against (from the perspective of legality).

Did you really not consider that? Or were you just asking to stir up Cheapley?

If it wasn’t for the real money aspect, I actually think it would be a good system. The timer is smart, for the reasons squid said. There is no optimal way to play, you just play. They should look into that for leveling up.

But c’mon, do they really have to monetize fucking everything? They already sell universal ornaments. Now they are going to sell me the ability to use sets I already have?

I’m not against microtransactions. I’ve bought plenty of eververse stuff, I’ve bought stuff in Warframe and Apex Legends. But this transmog system feels really egregious and it sucks. Especially since they were literally out there talking about making it a system that felt good. What happened to that?

Maybe there point wasn’t clear.

If you want more and get more by playing more, it’s functionally the same as if the ornaments were priced in time. If you earn one synth thingy per 2 minutes, then it’s not really any different if you were just given the ornament after playing for X minutes. They are just abstracting the system in which the real currency is your time.

Again...

Letting people know "It will take about 7 hours to earn a piece of armor" will keep a lot of people from even starting.

Telling people "It will cost 150 Synthstrand to buy a bounty to earn enough Synthweave for a piece of armor" sounds far more reasonable. It doesn't matter that someone did the math, and that we're talkign about it now - next week, it won't be in anyone's face any more. And 150 Synthstrand... pfft, that's easy, I just ran a strike and earned 20! This is a piece of cake.

Are you asking "why is Bungie using the same techniques that advertisers have been using for centuries?"

Because the answer to that is "they work."

If you want more and get more by playing more, it’s functionally the same as if the ornaments were priced in time. If you earn one synth thingy per 2 minutes, then it’s not really any different if you were just given the ornament after playing for X minutes. They are just abstracting the system in which the real currency is your time.

Not that grinding or farming is good either, but at least time is not the only factor. In fact, you can CUT the time requirement through your skill and game knowledge.

The answer that is to avoid "farms" where people feel obligated to play differently to earn the most strand. Right now just playing normally gets you the most possible strand you can get.

Then why even have it? It's literally just an abstracted 'time played' counter at that point.

Do you REALLY need that question answered?

Because if you want more, you play more. That's good for the company. If you don't care about the product (or the feature that the product affects), you can skip the extra playing and simply not earn it. That way, Bungie can say "we're not forcing anyone to do anything - we're just giving people an incentive to play more."

That's hard to argue against (from the perspective of legality).

Did you really not consider that? Or were you just asking to stir up Cheapley?

The answer that is to avoid "farms" where people feel obligated to play differently to earn the most strand. Right now just playing normally gets you the most possible strand you can get.

Then why even have it? It's literally just an abstracted 'time played' counter at that point.

The answer that is to avoid "farms" where people feel obligated to play differently to earn the most strand. Right now just playing normally gets you the most possible strand you can get.

Then why even have it? It's literally just an abstracted 'time played' counter at that point.

I would honestly, with no judgement or anything because I just want to learn, hear and understand the reasoning behind why they are doing it this way. From the outside, it looks like a system so far outside of what is fun I'm baffled because there are sensible alternatives. But there has to be a reason.

I just want to know it.

It’s because you can just pay real money to skip all of that. I mean, really. There’s no other legitimate reason they don’t just let you click the button to do it like literally every other game that has a transmog system.

It's really sad. After seeing many of the developers that I always admired and enjoyed one by one crossing the line, I'd hoped Bungie wasn't going to be one of them. There's no hoping anymore. The fact that I haven't logged in for over 2 years speaks for itself.

I'm being serious. It's tremendously disheartening to see so much of this medium transform into something truly vile when you know it has so much creative promise.

I wish critics would do their jobs. I remember Total Biscuit defending loot boxes in Overwatch before he died by saying "I have more money than time" (He was dying from cancer), "So the system that lets me pay money to save time is worth it for me."

But it never occurred to him to simply wonder why the game wasted his time in the first place. He, and many other critics who lack even the most basic semblance of insightful thought, fail to see that this is the equivalent of purposefully introducing a problem, then asking for money to fix it. Don't design the problem into your game in the first place.

I cannot believe it's 2021 and you even have to tell a game developer to design in good faith for maximum fun (or some other type of meaningful positive experience).

Because it turns out that it’s time-gated. You can only earn up to one strand every two minutes at peak efficiency. It’s a minimum five hour grind for enough to get a single bounty (assuming you’re killing enemies non-stop for those five hours). Twenty-five hours minimum for one set, and 150 hours per season to get your free batches.

I would honestly, with no judgement or anything because I just want to learn, hear and understand the reasoning behind why they are doing it this way. From the outside, it looks like a system so far outside of what is fun I'm baffled because there are sensible alternatives. But there has to be a reason.

I just want to know it.

There actually 2 answers to your question. The first is, why aren't armors just unlocked as ornaments when you get a version of them? The answer to that is they want to have a way to make money off it it, that's quite obvious. The second is, given the system they've implemented to make money, why is it specifically set up the way it is where you get a strand every 2 minutes almost no matter what you are doing. The answer that is to avoid "farms" where people feel obligated to play differently to earn the most strand. Right now just playing normally gets you the most possible strand you can get.

So, on one hand, they've "compromised" the game, but on the other hand, they've tried to prevent it from being "compromised". I've previously said something like the people left playing Destiny are the most pragmatic in the community - we recognize the issues with the game, but enjoy the high points so much we are willing to deal with the issues. It's not super surprising that the people making Destiny are in a similar spot, but it would sure make this all a lot more palatable if they would just admit it.

I would honestly, with no judgement or anything because I just want to learn, hear and understand the reasoning behind why they are doing it this way. From the outside, it looks like a system so far outside of what is fun I'm baffled because there are sensible alternatives. But there has to be a reason.

I just want to know it.

It’s because you can just pay real money to skip all of that. I mean, really. There’s no other legitimate reason they don’t just let you click the button to do it like literally every other game that has a transmog system.

It's really sad. After seeing many of the developers that I always admired and enjoyed one by one crossing the line, I'd hoped Bungie wasn't going to be one of them. There's no hoping anymore. The fact that I haven't logged in for over 2 years speaks for itself.

I'm being serious. It's tremendously disheartening to see so much of this medium transform into something truly vile when you know it has so much creative promise.

I wish critics would do their jobs. I remember Total Biscuit defending loot boxes in Overwatch before he died by saying "I have more money than time" (He was dying from cancer), "So the system that lets me pay money to save time is worth it for me."

But it never occurred to him to simply wonder why the game wasted his time in the first place. He, and many other critics who lack even the most basic semblance of insightful thought, fail to see that this is the equivalent of purposefully introducing a problem, then asking for money to fix it. Don't design the problem into your game in the first place.

I cannot believe it's 2021 and you even have to tell a game developer to design in good faith for maximum fun (or some other type of meaningful positive experience).

I would honestly, with no judgement or anything because I just want to learn, hear and understand the reasoning behind why they are doing it this way. From the outside, it looks like a system so far outside of what is fun I'm baffled because there are sensible alternatives. But there has to be a reason.

I just want to know it.

It’s because you can just pay real money to skip all of that. I mean, really. There’s no other legitimate reason they don’t just let you click the button to do it like literally every other game that has a transmog system.