With specific exceptions (the role of music in ep. 3 and 7 and at the end of 1 and 6), I thought the show underutilized a great resource. I noticed that when the show strictly followed the game, they still felt the need to make it different, often by flipping the blocking of the characters. When it came to the soundtrack, when they copied the game, they seemed to have made it different putting music lower in the mix, muting its effectiveness. An exception is the final episode, where they had the right music playing above all else, but left out the crucial part (as Korny noted), where Joel is dodging an army of soldiers with flashlights while carrying Ellie. The resonance of that scene in the game can't be overstated, in no small part because of the version of "All Gone," which serves its purpose to recall the initial trauma of the game.

I know I've said some of this before, but it became clear when I listened to the show's soundtrack. The added tracks are unmemorable, whereas when listening to the soundtrack of the game nearly every track evokes a memory of a scene, which is what a good soundtrack is supposed to do. Bottom line: in my opinion, the show wasn't scored nearly as well as the game, and it's a shame, because this was an unforced error.

I loved the opening with Ellie's mother. I actually love the echo between her and Joel. Both made incredibly selfish decisions and lie to protect her. While we can debate the severity of those actions against each other, it's just a nice little touch that both of her protectors made a version of the same decision--she's more important than anyone else. The love a parent has for their child is hardly a revelation, but it just stuck out to me as something worth highlighting.

Totally agree. It's probably my favorite addition to the show. It was bittersweet, though. I know that it wasn't possible for Ashley Johnson to ever play Ellie in a live action version. I thought Bella Ramsey did a good job, especially in the later episodes. That said, Ashley IS Ellie, and she will always be Ellie to me.

I was slightly confused as to why Marlene was so… angry when she finished her off. Why so fast? Cold? She didn't want to do it. Felt like a weird choice.

I didn’t see her as angry. That completely worked for me. It was ripping off a scab. 1, 2, 3, BAM—done as quickly as possible.

I loved the opening with Ellie's mother. I actually love the echo between her and Joel. Both made incredibly selfish decisions and lie to protect her. While we can debate the severity of those actions against each other, it's just a nice little touch that both of her protectors made a version of the same decision--she's more important than anyone else. The love a parent has for their child is hardly a revelation, but it just stuck out to me as something worth highlighting.

Totally agree. It's probably my favorite addition to the show. It was bittersweet, though. I know that it wasn't possible for Ashley Johnson to ever play Ellie in a live action version. I thought Bella Ramsey did a good job, especially in the later episodes. That said, Ashley IS Ellie, and she will always be Ellie to me.

I was slightly confused as to why Marlene was so… angry when she finished her off. Why so fast? Cold? She didn't want to do it. Felt like a weird choice.

I loved the opening with Ellie's mother. I actually love the echo between her and Joel. Both made incredibly selfish decisions and lie to protect her. While we can debate the severity of those actions against each other, it's just a nice little touch that both of her protectors made a version of the same decision--she's more important than anyone else. The love a parent has for their child is hardly a revelation, but it just stuck out to me as something worth highlighting.

Totally agree. It's probably my favorite addition to the show. It was bittersweet, though. I know that it wasn't possible for Ashley Johnson to ever play Ellie in a live action version. I thought Bella Ramsey did a good job, especially in the later episodes. That said, Ashley IS Ellie, and she will always be Ellie to me.

Now, as for the finale itself, I think you all made great points. Joel actually having to get Ellie out of the hospital is sorely missed. I liked how extreme him getting to her was. He just completely disassociates and getting to Ellie is the only thing that matters, and anything in his way won't be there for long, no matter what it takes. I actually thing that segment was more effective in the show. For as much as we laud the heightened immersion of playing Joel, this is the one case where that was more harmful. As Korny mentioned, it's the first time we get an automatic rifle and tons of ammo. The game wants us to mow through the Firefly goons (and I did so with impunity, much as Joel did). But it felt too much like a video game moment too fully land emotionally. It turned into Uncharted in that moment, which actually served to downplay the real consequences of what was happening. That changed the minute I made it to the hallway leading to Ellie, but the gunfights weren't as impactful as they were probably supposed to be.

I loved the opening with Ellie's mother. I actually love the echo between her and Joel. Both made incredibly selfish decisions and lie to protect her. While we can debate the severity of those actions against each other, it's just a nice little touch that both of her protectors made a version of the same decision--she's more important than anyone else. The love a parent has for their child is hardly a revelation, but it just stuck out to me as something worth highlighting.

The true gut punch, act of desperation, and emotional weight, funny enough, was what happened after Joel's rampage. It was picking Ellie's unconscious body, and running blindly through the halls as Fireflies swarmed and blocked any possible exit while they shouted about trying to get a clear shot at you. In this segment, you are unarmed, you are lost, and you have Ellie at her most vulnerable. This is the moment that broke me during the game. It was the "what have I done? What am I doing? What do I do?" thoughts running through my head as I clung to Ellie, knowing that I was actively robbing her of her life's purpose, but knowing I needed to escape with her alive.

And yet, that was cut entirely from the show, skipping right to the last chance moment of making things right.

I remember this now! Yes, you are so right about that. Great observation.

I agree, and that's something I missed now that it's been mentioned. My original criticism about the music being less prominent during Sarah's death scene in the show was tied directly to this, and how the theme's prominence at this moment later was so affecting in the game. I'm positive on the show generally, but it seems the episode could've been a few minutes longer to give us that.

I don't think the latter is exactly true. The game requires interactivity to be a game. Remove that requirement, and you've got newfound freedom to show and tell different kinds of things in the universe that wouldn't be interesting presented in a puzzle (as gameplay demands). Examples would be Sarah's "normal" day, Jakarta, tasting strawberries--the list goes on.

All can be done just as in the show: as a cutscene. Play a Kojima game sometime. Cutscenes literally last as long as episodes of TV occasionally. Rarely, you'll get them as long as entire films.

Fair enough, but doesn't mean the narrative doesn't warrant an adaptation as purely cinematic. Everybody isn't a gamer, just as everyone isn't a reader, and that's okay.

I don't think the latter is exactly true. The game requires interactivity to be a game. Remove that requirement, and you've got newfound freedom to show and tell different kinds of things in the universe that wouldn't be interesting presented in a puzzle (as gameplay demands). Examples would be Sarah's "normal" day, Jakarta, tasting strawberries--the list goes on.

All can be done just as in the show: as a cutscene. Play a Kojima game sometime. Cutscenes literally last as long as episodes of TV occasionally. Rarely, you'll get them as long as entire films.

The true gut punch, act of desperation, and emotional weight, funny enough, was what happened after Joel's rampage. It was picking Ellie's unconscious body, and running blindly through the halls as Fireflies swarmed and blocked any possible exit while they shouted about trying to get a clear shot at you. In this segment, you are unarmed, you are lost, and you have Ellie at her most vulnerable. This is the moment that broke me during the game. It was the "what have I done? What am I doing? What do I do?" thoughts running through my head as I clung to Ellie, knowing that I was actively robbing her of her life's purpose, but knowing I needed to escape with her alive.

And yet, that was cut entirely from the show, skipping right to the last chance moment of making things right.

I remember this now! Yes, you are so right about that. Great observation.

It flew by. Everything just went so quickly when he went terminator on everyone

These are the words of someone I know who had not played the game. I for one agree. The finale dropped the ball. It did not work and unraveled it all.

Funny. My brother has not played the game, and hates the post-episode "recaps" that explain the creator's intent with the episodes (he literally walked out of the room after every episode so these summaries would not manipulate his own thoughts on the episode).
And yet, he understood how the show emphasized Joel's biggest character flaw throughout: his selfishness and willingness to manipulate his loved ones for his own gains. For as rushed as the episode was (and boy was it rushed), it did almost every character justice, except, sadly enough, Ellie.

Now, I haven't played the game in a while so my recollection might not be exact, but I think the criticism still holds here. Joel does indeed go 'Terminator', and the lack of emotion here is just ridiculous. I recall getting to Ellie being difficult; in the show it should have been possible only through sheer will and desire to save her. Also, the coldness of it all really came off very differently than the game. Before it felt like an act of despair. Now? Kind of… psychopathic. As a viewer I don't know if I'm 100% behind Joel the way you were when it was you playing. I mean shit, he just executes Abby's dad immediately.

Now, I HAVE played the game several times, and recent enough that I still have emotional context (and with the bonus hindsight offered in Part II), and I think the show did a good job establishing that Joel is a monster for what he is doing, especially since the show creates a more compelling explanation for how the "vacccine" works. It's feasable, and Joel, in his selfish refusal to lose another daughter, slaughters the world's last hope in order to hold on to her. It is truly psychotic, and the coldness with which he straight up murders people (even the ones who stand down) is captured perfectly.
That said, the game gave you way more time to bond with Ellie, and gave you way more "unimportant" scenes to get you to love her (I had a talk very recently about how the very last comic book in the game's collectathon for Ellie is found during Spring's emotional high point, coming after a tough fight with multiple bloaters, and after you get just comfortable enough that the bright and cheerful Ellie is back! And literally moments before it all comes crashing down and she drowns for Joel.
Knowing that the Fireflies who find you and knock you out before you can see or hear her awake and safe again made it much easier to kill them just for a chance to get that moment with her again does add a sense of "desperation" to the slaughter, but remember that this is where the game gives you your first fully-automatic rifle, and with plenty of ammo to boot. You are given the tools to make the rampage easier, and the body count higher. It is psychotic. Despair would have been if you had to claw tooth and nail to get to her, but the game itself made it explicit that that wasn't the case. It was always meant to be a bloodbath (and as Part II established, Joel wasn't the only one with something personal to lose here).

What was a gut punch in the game goes by just like another action scene, as does their conversation in the end.

The true gut punch, act of desperation, and emotional weight, funny enough, was what happened after Joel's rampage. It was picking Ellie's unconscious body, and running blindly through the halls as Fireflies swarmed and blocked any possible exit while they shouted about trying to get a clear shot at you. In this segment, you are unarmed, you are lost, and you have Ellie at her most vulnerable. This is the moment that broke me during the game. It was the "what have I done? What am I doing? What do I do?" thoughts running through my head as I clung to Ellie, knowing that I was actively robbing her of her life's purpose, but knowing I needed to escape with her alive.

And yet, that was cut entirely from the show, skipping right to the last chance moment of making things right.

Let down pretty hard IMO. But needlessly so. They wasted 2 episodes. The DLC episode just never should have happened. And while Bill and Frank's story was amazing on its own, it took too much time away from the main relationship. I really think it could have worked if things didn't have to happen at warp speed.

While I agree that Left Behind didn't need to be an episode, I don't think it deserved to be cut. I think they messed up by making Riley noticeably older than Ellie, but it did a number of things right, down to setting up how the Fireflies had Ellie in their possession in the first place. I think the biggest problem was that HBO gave them 10 episodes to work with, they trimmed it down to 9, and should have had 11. Winter and Spring being a single episode each was a huge mistake, while giving the Hunters an extended focus was well-meaning, but mishandled in the two episodes with them. That should have been time spent with the cannibals instead (and they should have included the section where Ellie had no choice but to build trust with David in the sawmill. It would have also reminded us that the infected are an ongoing concern, as they otherwise completely disappeared after episode 5. And would have endeared viewers to David, as the show has us completely on guard against him the entire time

As with all things, running a script through a third person to tighten up characters, dialogue, and interactions would have done wonders for the show, but as far as adaptations go, I've seen most people very happy with the show. It always comes down to "We know better", having played the game, but it's otherwise a very successful adaptation, and I loved Ashley Johnson's entire scene.

Also, did you catch Laura Bailey's cameo in the show? A very fitting place for her, all things considered. :)

As regards the show, what ultimately matters is how effective it was as a show, and I think the consensus is that it was very effective.

There are many major outlets criticizing the ending today. I don't think your statement is necessarily correct.

They don't care. They like the show, and the show is what they know. And they'll never experience the game. There's a gap between gamers and non-gamers, and I felt it intensely after playing The Last of Us. Here was this great story, and I had so many story-loving friends who could never experience it. Now they have experienced a form of it, and they seem grateful. I am, too.

The person I quoted had a very bad experience with the finale. I told her what playing the game was like, and she said "Yeah, I did not get that feeling at all watching this. It was just weird." And she was on board and invested into the show up to this point.

Not to doubt you, but was her opinion wholly hers uninfluenced by you? I don't think of you as shy about letting it be known what you think and your certainty regarding what you think. I've got my test subjects so I'll report back, but thus far they've bought into the characters and their relationship, even when I expressed concerns similar to yours.

But you NEED to compare it to the game. Due to the nature of AAA game to film adaptation itself. Remember, the move doesn't give you any new tools in your creative arsenal to tell the story with; it only removes them.

I don't think the latter is exactly true. The game requires interactivity to be a game. Remove that requirement, and you've got newfound freedom to show and tell different kinds of things in the universe that wouldn't be interesting presented in a puzzle (as gameplay demands). Examples would be Sarah's "normal" day, Jakarta, tasting strawberries--the list goes on.

It's not like a book to movie where the experience is so different it's not comparable. When you do this, you are saying "This story would have been better as an 8 hour cutscene", and so you have to actually see if that choice was valid.

I'm not saying that, so I don't have to proclaim one is better. Maybe they're more comparable than a movie and book, but it's still not really comparable because you can't have the immersion amplifier of interactivity in the show on the one hand, and on the other hand eight hours of cutscenes wouldn't be a game. I would say there are aspects of the game that better serve the narrative, and aspects of the show that better serve the narrative. Ultimately, I think it's best to say whether they work independently. Mileage may vary, of course. I'm looking forward to reading more reviews of the show that don't compare it to the game. Personally, for me, the game was better, but it has going for it the unalterable fact of being the first way I experienced this narrative. Many millions of people judged the narrative in show form as worthy on its own, else they would not have continued to tune in.

As regards the show, what ultimately matters is how effective it was as a show, and I think the consensus is that it was very effective.

There are many major outlets criticizing the ending today. I don't think your statement is necessarily correct.

They don't care. They like the show, and the show is what they know. And they'll never experience the game. There's a gap between gamers and non-gamers, and I felt it intensely after playing The Last of Us. Here was this great story, and I had so many story-loving friends who could never experience it. Now they have experienced a form of it, and they seem grateful. I am, too.

The person I quoted had a very bad experience with the finale. I told her what playing the game was like, and she said "Yeah, I did not get that feeling at all watching this. It was just weird." And she was on board and invested into the show up to this point.

But you NEED to compare it to the game. Due to the nature of AAA game to film adaptation itself. Remember, the move doesn't give you any new tools in your creative arsenal to tell the story with; it only removes them. It's not like a book to movie where the experience is so different it's not comparable. When you do this, you are saying "This story would have been better as an 8 hour cutscene", and so you have to actually see if that choice was valid.

It flew by. Everything just went so quickly when he went terminator on everyone

These are the words of someone I know who had not played the game. I for one agree. The finale dropped the ball. It did not work and unraveled it all.

Now, I haven't played the game in a while so my recollection might not be exact, but I think the criticism still holds here. Joel does indeed go 'Terminator', and the lack of emotion here is just ridiculous. I recall getting to Ellie being difficult; in the show it should have been possible only through sheer will and desire to save her. Also, the coldness of it all really came off very differently than the game. Before it felt like an act of despair. Now? Kind of… psychopathic. As a viewer I don't know if I'm 100% behind Joel the way you were when it was you playing. I mean shit, he just executes Abby's dad immediately.

What was a gut punch in the game goes by just like another action scene, as does their conversation in the end.

Let down pretty hard IMO. But needlessly so. They wasted 2 episodes. The DLC episode just never should have happened. And while Bill and Frank's story was amazing on its own, it took too much time away from the main relationship. I really think it could have worked if things didn't have to happen at warp speed.

I disagree with your experience of the game. :) I mean, I had a different experience. I didn't want to kill fireflies. I was torn about "rescuing" Ellie. I wasn't sure if I was doing what she would have wanted, but I had no choice in the matter, exemplified by the decision to kill or not kill the doctor, which wasn't a decision I was given (it sucks that I have to know who he is because apparently that's entered into the domain of "common knowledge." I'm sad for all the non-gamers who can't really live in the world without having season 2 spoiled. FU to YouTubers in particular, with their spoiler thumbnails.). Unlike the show, I didn't know what Ellie had been told and what she hadn't been told (what amounted to a plothole in the game). Although I think they could have had more Joel & Ellie time, and I tend to agree that the DLC content in particular didn't work as well as it did as add-on content, I'm not sure that would have made gamers such as yourself happy (and it definitely would have made a ton of people very unhappy). The bottom line is that the show can't replicate the experience of the game no matter what. What's interesting is that your experience of the show does align with my experience of the game in terms of what I felt. The difference of course is the in-game experience of controlling Joel killing "innocent" people--ostensibly the good guys.

As regards the show, what ultimately matters is how effective it was as a show, and I think the consensus is that it was very effective. And they took great advantage of it NOT being a game. They reduced Joel & Ellie's body count, which would have been numbing had it been the same in the show. They added amazing content--the flashbacks (especially in this episode), the plugging of potholes (there were too many instances to count where the show explanations worked better than those in the game), the way they upped the ante, either by making Sam deaf, or adding Joel's suicide attempt (the reveal of which was one my favorite scenes in the show). Not perfect, and I bet they've thought of ways it could've been better since making it, but pretty damn good and I'm happy with it. I've stopped making comparisons to the game for my non-gamer friends because they finally got it through my thick stull to stop. They don't care. They like the show, and the show is what they know. And they'll never experience the game. There's a gap between gamers and non-gamers, and I felt it intensely after playing The Last of Us. Here was this great story, and I had so many story-loving friends who could never experience it. Now they have experienced a form of it, and they seem grateful. I am, too.

It flew by. Everything just went so quickly when he went terminator on everyone

These are the words of someone I know who had not played the game. I for one agree. The finale dropped the ball. It did not work and unraveled it all.

Now, I haven't played the game in a while so my recollection might not be exact, but I think the criticism still holds here. Joel does indeed go 'Terminator', and the lack of emotion here is just ridiculous. I recall getting to Ellie being difficult; in the show it should have been possible only through sheer will and desire to save her. Also, the coldness of it all really came off very differently than the game. Before it felt like an act of despair. Now? Kind of… psychopathic. As a viewer I don't know if I'm 100% behind Joel the way you were when it was you playing. I mean shit, he just executes Abby's dad immediately.

What was a gut punch in the game goes by just like another action scene, as does their conversation in the end.

Let down pretty hard IMO. But needlessly so. They wasted 2 episodes. The DLC episode just never should have happened. And while Bill and Frank's story was amazing on its own, it took too much time away from the main relationship. I really think it could have worked if things didn't have to happen at warp speed.

You wrote and said you didn't agree, then made a reply to this telling me... you agree? I said the story felt rushed, and you just said it was because of "poor choices."

Correct. It's not rushed because there's not enough time as you said earlier. It's because the time that WAS there was not utilized correctly.

I know how to write. The issue with your comparisons is that they all fill different roles for their respective stories -- none are equivalent to the focus that Ellie and Joel's relationship receives, nor the development it's supposed to go through.

You may know how to write, but I’m not as sure about a lot of television writers today, as I see stumble after stumble. We are past the golden age. We are at a point where there are too few episodes to have the breadth that TV could previously offer, but have too many such that you have to stretch to fill time. You don’t HAVE to, but all so often I see it done.

Time and time again I see stories stretched to fill 6-8 hours that would otherwise be 2. It was especially bad with the binge model since episodes did not have to stand alone for a week, but it has been a problem with episodic too. And so stories are stretched and unfocused, rather than being redrafted and adjusted in density to fit.

I guarantee you if you made a movie about just Joel and Ellie, in 2 hours you could nail everything about them and how they have to grow and change. I know because I’ve seen feature films do it to an even greater degree with other characters.

James Cameron is a pretty good filmmaker yeah? On the subject of editing and pacing, he once said that if your movie is too long, rather than hack it up, it’s best to just cut out in their entirety the sub plots that work the least well. Don’t mess with the main narrative and what works; find what is the weakest and lift it. But don’t sacrifice the core story.

I think that’s great advice. The DLC episode had no place in this season and should have never been filmed. The very fact that it’s DLC and wasn’t in the game originally should clue you in as to its narrative relevance. Having it is the equivalent of cutting part of your main story, finding you’re short, and just passing time with a weak subplot you add to fill.

There was enough time. The time was just squandered with poor choices.

You wrote and said you didn't agree, then made a reply to this telling me... you agree? I said the story felt rushed, and you just said it was because of "poor choices."

Logically we can fill in those gaps and assume they had some shit to deal with along the way, but having to assume it isn’t good enough when I’m supposed to believe they’ve been through hell and back together.

You essentially have to imagine a world where the game doesn't exist. The show is now the only instance of this story being told.

Now go and make the show. Assume nothing, and give the audience everything they need right there in the work itself.

It's not over yet. There's ground to cover for the relationship. I'm reserving judgment.

Episode 9 is 43 minutes long. The final episode is the shortest one.

Ugh. Well, there's the Up example, right? I admit I was hoping for a return to episode 1's length, but a substantive amount of the content that remains is lotsa killin', and the show tends to leave that part out. We'll see. There better be a GD giraffe.

I think that’s part of the problem. Don’t get me wrong, we didn’t need extended combat every episode, but I genuinely don’t think we got enough of the trials and tribulations of Joel and Ellie, which is sort of the foundation of them growing together. As far as the show is concerned they had a leisurely stroll to Bill and Frank’s, then a nice drive all the way to Kansas City. They had an ordeal there, obviously, but then they made it all the way to Wyoming then from there to Colorado with zero resistance whatsoever. Logically we can fill in those gaps and assume they had some shit to deal with along the way, but having to assume it isn’t good enough when I’m supposed to believe they’ve been through hell and back together.

It's not over yet. There's ground to cover for the relationship. I'm reserving judgment.

Episode 9 is 43 minutes long. The final episode is the shortest one.

Ugh. Well, there's the Up example, right? I admit I was hoping for a return to episode 1's length, but a substantive amount of the content that remains is lotsa killin', and the show tends to leave that part out. We'll see. There better be a GD giraffe.

It's not over yet. There's ground to cover for the relationship. I'm reserving judgment.

Episode 9 is 43 minutes long. The final episode is the shortest one.