I'd like to have more precise way to compare stuff, so I can judge compromises without having to go and test them extensively.

Just count some pixels.

;)

E.g. "Oh, this gun 30 more Stability, but 20 less Rate of Fire. Based on my previous experience, 30 points in Stability outweighs about 200 of Rate of Fire, so bye-bye!"

Explained math or not, I'd like to be able to tell the bars apart more precisely without going up to my TV and laying a ruler on it.

You can hold R2 to compare, and any differences in bar length between weapons will be red or green. It's pretty easy to see which has longer / shorter bars.

5, 10, 100, 1000, whatever.

I'd like to be able to understand the relationship between Attack and Impact. Where's the actual indication of how much damage these guns are doing? I think I have an idea after Cody's explanation, but it still to my mind is confusing. What he says implies math is going on behind the scenes. I'd like to be able to calculate that math for myself if possible. I can't do that if all I'm offered is one number and a bar. At least it certainly seems like I can't.

Well, the relationship between attack, impact and actual damage dealt is definitely something I'd like to understand more clearly. Maybe I'm idealising or misunderstanding how it works versus how I imagine it ought to work.

Explained math or not, I'd like to be able to tell the bars apart more precisely without going up to my TV and laying a ruler on it.

5, 10, 100, 1000, whatever.

I'd like to be able to understand the relationship between Attack and Impact. Where's the actual indication of how much damage these guns are doing? I think I have an idea after Cody's explanation, but it still to my mind is confusing. What he says implies math is going on behind the scenes. I'd like to be able to calculate that math for myself if possible. I can't do that if all I'm offered is one number and a bar. At least it certainly seems like I can't.

Well, the relationship between attack, impact and actual damage dealt is definitely something I'd like to understand more clearly. Maybe I'm idealising or misunderstanding how it works versus how I imagine it ought to work.

I'd like to be able to understand the relationship between Attack and Impact. Where's the actual indication of how much damage these guns are doing? I think I have an idea after Cody's explanation, but it still to my mind is confusing. What he says implies math is going on behind the scenes. I'd like to be able to calculate that math for myself if possible. I can't do that if all I'm offered is one number and a bar. At least it certainly seems like I can't.

Uh, what? The numbers being asked for would just gauge the length of the bar. They aren't asking for the Attack Rating to be replaced with an Impact number, they just want numbers attached to the bars which quite clearly have a hidden numerical component (hint: it's the length). I don't really have any idea what you were trying to say...

So you want a number out of 10 for each bar?

I can't tell if an enemy is above me or directly beside me.

It's a different color (dimmer) if they are above or below you.

Clear as mud.

This. In fact, I still don't get it, and if Impact is the actual damage rating of my weapon, I want a number for it, not a bar. Bars are fairly meaningless without context.

Not entirely. If you assume that in PvP with players of identical level, you'd always want a level playing field where weapons are concerned. In that case the bars are relative indicators of an individual weapon's strengths and weaknesses assuming a level playing field. This is, I'm pretty certain, the reason why there are no numbers shown beside these bars, as the numbers themselves are meaningless in PvP.

But we have kills and k/d ratio. Aren't deaths redundant?

I'm not that good at math, and no. I would rather see deaths than k/d.

Well, unless you hop out of matchmaking, you're staying on that screen for a LOT of time. Might as well brush up your math.

Bungie: teaching you stuff since 1991

On serious note, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't even need to take out the reward column to include death count. Just move stuff around a bit

It is solid red when they're in the same plane and dark red with a regular red outline when not.

In ordinary Crucible matches, NONE of that matters. Damage is based on weapon type only, just like in Halo. Your gear does not matter.

Not true. It takes everything things like rate of fire and impact into account.

Here's my sum of the radar:
You know when someone is coming, but you have to use the radar, your own eyes, and map knowledge to approach the situation - then you make your attack. It adds so much depth, and far more depth than "walk around the corner and get blasted by a shotgun camper."

Also, if you didn't know - crouching doesn't make you invisible, it just makes you ping half as often for the other team.

Unless its all in my head? Wish I could set up a custom game to test it all out and be sure.

I couldn't find it elsewhere in the thread, but the above only applies to PVE (campaign, story, explore, etc) and not to Crucible matches.

In ordinary Crucible matches, NONE of that matters. Damage is based on weapon type only, just like in Halo. Your gear does not matter.

In Iron Banner matches, some item stats matter, but others don't-- but as far as I understand, the ones that don't are the ones that affect damage-- so again, the above is not relevant. I believe the ones that are relevant are things like reload time, magazine size, etc.

Damage in the Crucible is still determined by your gun's impact, its fire rate is still determined by its fire rate bar, its magazine size is the same as is listed in its description, etcetera, and you still get the unique bonuses from Uncommon gear. As far as I know, the only stat that is equalized in the Crucible is its Attack number, which does not happen in the Iron Banner.

I feel like the biggest issue I have with Crucible at the moment is I feel like I'm doing something wrong because I'm lacking information.

When I find out things like guns with higher impact rating but a lower attack numerical value can cause more damage than guns with lower impact rating but a higher attack numerical value, I get confused.

In Crucible, when I'm shooting that dude and he's shooting me and I die first, I'm left wondering--did he just out play me, or does he have a gun with a slightly better rate of fire or impact rating or something.

I couldn't find it elsewhere in the thread, but the above only applies to PVE (campaign, story, explore, etc) and not to Crucible matches.

In ordinary Crucible matches, NONE of that matters. Damage is based on weapon type only, just like in Halo. Your gear does not matter.

In Iron Banner matches, some item stats matter, but others don't-- but as far as I understand, the ones that don't are the ones that affect damage-- so again, the above is not relevant. I believe the ones that are relevant are things like reload time, magazine size, etc.

I can't tell if an enemy is above me or directly beside me.

It's a different color (dimmer) if they are above or below you.

Too subtle to notice on 360 no matter how big the screen is.

When the center circle fills in, I think of that as meaning directly above/below me, but that's not true.

I think the radar as implemented works great in PVE-- better than using dots for individual enemies, since it gives you some information, but not too much. In PVP it's borderline misleading, and the range is far too short to be useful anywhere outdoors, or even in a large room.