I can't find the interview, but Bungie has already said that tools for Destiny might come later, but not on day one. Not the Destiny is Halo, but FYI Halo 1 didn't have forge, it didn't have theater mode, the community still managed to pull off great things like Warthog Jump without it.

Yep, and the bar for video capture and editing was higher (that said, not everyone is as talented as Randall Glass.)

Bungie will be on Destiny for at least 10 years. They are one of the most community focused developers out there, and have been since before Halo. I have no doubt that just because we don't have something on Day 1, doesn't mean that they won't provide us with awesome, given time.

Like I said, I am hopeful.

Bungie will be on Destiny for at least 10 years. They are one of the most community focused developers out there, and have been since before Halo. I have no doubt that just because we don't have something on Day 1, doesn't mean that they won't provide us with awesome, given time.

Is there something wrong with my hoping for theater mode? You've posted a variation of this before when I've mentioned it, and I don't get why it seems so unreasonable to include the feature, given Bungie's history with it (BTW, it's not a Halo thing. Marathon and Myth had films, too.)

No not at all, and in fact I've never disagreed with you that theater mode is an awesome tool and adds many possibilities to a game.

I've posted a variation of my views because you posted a variation of yours- you opened the discussion :P

The view I expressed is that I doubt Destiny will have theater mode, and we seem to agree on that. I didn't say we're entitled to it, or how dare Bungie not include it! Bungie SUX! OhEmGee! I didn't say including it would be a cakewalk, but it never was, and Bungie has pulled it off before, so it's not unreasonable to hope for it. There's a difference in hoping for it and saying it damn well better have it.

Where I think it is unreasonable is that this generation of console offers tools that the previous gen did not, and one of those is video recording (and while it is not as robust as Bungie's theater mode of Halo 3 and Reach, it's still better than the myriad of games that didn't offer it at all)

I disagree with this. Imagine what could be done with both! I predict that without theater mode we'll get more first-person, Halo-2-style highlight reels set to incredibly crappy music. I've seen enough of those to last a lifetime. For my interests, built-in video capture eliminates the need for Bungie Pro. That's it. (I also don't particularly like having to worry about what to capture while I'm playing.) Neither feature is necessary, but saying that video capture makes theater mode unnecessary is like saying you get a free toaster so an oven is unnecessary. There's more to life than toast.

Second, a good bit of my favorite fan-created content could not have been made with only video capture. Video capture simply does not replace theater mode.

I agree 100% with you.

But that doesn't change my reasoning as to why they may have decided to leave it out.

Your reasoning is speculation. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'll speculate that there are people at Bungie who understand the impact of theater mode on the community and what a force multiplier it is as compared with simple video capture.

Lastly, I don't think you understand how films worked. The game engine and assets are what take up space. I'm not saying Destiny doesn't present unique technical hurdles. Halo did, too, else the first two games might have had them.

Perhaps I don't, but on that same token, maybe the way Halo had saved films is not possible in Destiny for the exact same reasons you mentioned, and to expect Bungie to include them just because they did for previous games is unreasonable.

I never said I expect Bungie to include it because they have before. Odds are better that they would, though, than the odds would be had they never included it before. I've expected it only so far as the last five Bungie games have built on the features that came before, but I'm well aware that this is a different animal. I won't be angry about theater's absence, but I can't be talked out of being disappointed either.

Like I said, if the game is going to have them, we probably would have heard about it by now. Maybe they have other plan. Maybe it will come later as a patch or expansion. Maybe they're testing the waters. I don't know, and neither does anyone else until they tell us.

I agree. I'll remain hopeful until it's confirmed one way or another, and if it's not included this time, I'll hope for it in the sequels.

Forge does not make sense for Destiny.

When a game has a good sandbox, it is unfortunate to limit it to the developer's environments. Forge makes as much sense for Destiny as it did for Halo. There are huge opportunities for community content--Sparrow trick maps full of half pipes, the Vault of Flaming Ninja Glass, custom PvE scenarios, and PvP arenas.

You might not want to Forge, but given the tool, the community would make incredible things with it.

I don't recall saying I didn't want it.

When you say "Forge does not make sense for Destiny" - if you wanted Forge, you would not say things like that.

I do recall saying I don't think it applies the same way to Destiny that it did to Halo.

How? They're both FPS with fantastic sandboxes, competitive multiplayer and singleplayer/coop experiences. There is nothing about Destiny that makes it ineligible for Forge.

So Bungie made Destiny's singleplayer/coop a shared world, irrelevant. You couldn't Forge in Halo's singleplayer/coop either.

Look a few threads over where people are concerned that Destiny's 4 worlds are too few. Forge is infinite content.

I also lament Titanfall not having Forge, that would be fun with the game's movement mechanics.

PC mods.

What limited tools we get on console are infinitely better than nothing, but those kind of premium features are better suited for PC editing.

We're talking about a console game, not a PC game. And Forge did a fantastic job on a console. The existence of PCs does not make console games ineligible for map editors.

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Maybe these things will come later. Maybe they'll ship with the game this September- again, I don't know, because Bungie won't comment on it (which a month before release, is not a good sign that they'll be included).

At this point, I'm just irritated that we keep looking backward to things that Halo had and the expectation that Destiny must have them.

It's not just Destiny, these (Forge, theater) are great features that any game would benefit from. The fact that Bungie pioneered these features on a console so well in Halo, why shouldn't we optimistically anticipate or desire them in Bungie's next game? I don't see why that irritates you--these are good features for games to have. Do you want a game with less features?

That being said, Tyson Green basically said there will be no Forge in Destiny at launch back in that IGN interview months ago.

If you have Kinect you can say "Xbox record that". Done. If you don't have Kinect, well you're boned then aren't you? This also makes sense, because Bungie probably wasn't expecting Microsoft to do a 180 on the mandatory kinect.

Without Kinect, just open/snap the Game DVR app, which will then have the option to record the last 30 seconds of gameplay (or up to the next 5 minutes)

Ah! This is good to know!

Quack Quack! :)

Forge does not make sense for Destiny.

When a game has a good sandbox, it is unfortunate to limit it to the developer's environments. Forge makes as much sense for Destiny as it did for Halo. There are huge opportunities for community content--Sparrow trick maps full of half pipes, the Vault of Flaming Ninja Glass, custom PvE scenarios, and PvP arenas.

You might not want to Forge, but given the tool, the community would make incredible things with it.

I don't recall saying I didn't want it.

I do recall saying I don't think it applies the same way to Destiny that it did to Halo.

Look a few threads over where people are concerned that Destiny's 4 worlds are too few. Forge is infinite content.

I also lament Titanfall not having Forge, that would be fun with the game's movement mechanics.

PC mods.

What limited tools we get on console are infinitely better than nothing, but those kind of premium features are better suited for PC editing.

----------------------------------------

Maybe these things will come later. Maybe they'll ship with the game this September- again, I don't know, because Bungie won't comment on it (which a month before release, is not a good sign that they'll be included).

At this point, I'm just irritated that we keep looking backward to things that Halo had and the expectation that Destiny must have them.

Is there something wrong with my hoping for theater mode? You've posted a variation of this before when I've mentioned it, and I don't get why it seems so unreasonable to include the feature, given Bungie's history with it (BTW, it's not a Halo thing. Marathon and Myth had films, too.)

No not at all, and in fact I've never disagreed with you that theater mode is an awesome tool and adds many possibilities to a game.

I've posted a variation of my views because you posted a variation of yours- you opened the discussion :P

Where I think it is unreasonable is that this generation of console offers tools that the previous gen did not, and one of those is video recording (and while it is not as robust as Bungie's theater mode of Halo 3 and Reach, it's still better than the myriad of games that didn't offer it at all)

Second, a good bit of my favorite fan-created content could not have been made with only video capture. Video capture simply does not replace theater mode.

I agree 100% with you.

But that doesn't change my reasoning as to why they may have decided to leave it out.

Lastly, I don't think you understand how films worked. The game engine and assets are what take up space. I'm not saying Destiny doesn't present unique technical hurdles. Halo did, too, else the first two games might have had them.

Perhaps I don't, but on that same token, maybe the way Halo had saved films is not possible in Destiny for the exact same reasons you mentioned, and to expect Bungie to include them just because they did for previous games is unreasonable.

Like I said, if the game is going to have them, we probably would have heard about it by now. Maybe they have other plan. Maybe it will come later as a patch or expansion. Maybe they're testing the waters. I don't know, and neither does anyone else until they tell us.

An article where Jones himself says he's incorporating "luck" into Destiny's hit mechanics. Given how the article flows, it implies PvP already has 'always' had it, so it probably means they're giving at least the hit detection a lot more leeway than we're used to in PvE.

(I'd love to hear a real explanation on how they pulled it off when the two previous games were fairly crap with anything less than a perfect connection to your next door neighbor.)

I mean, my latency when connected to you guys should be above 150ms (if not 250ms), which gives, in the best case scenario, 183ms for the console to do its calculations AND render the player's frame while keeping a 30fps target framerate.