DBO Forums - Agile https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/ Bungie.Org talks Destiny en Agile (reply)

A lot of people have been asking questions about why Destiny took so long to develop. I think it's because they've been building a lot of foundational architecture to support this kind of stuff. In addition to building a new engine that is capable of running on multiple platforms, they've had to build a lot of support tools to let them update the game much more dynamically than in the past.

This is a good point, and worth noting. It's possible that the released version of Destiny is really just an install base.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35971 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35971 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:50:14 +0000 Destinyyakaman
"Players help shape the world"? (reply)

A lot of that concept art was shown at the GDC panel which was talking about how they had been creating the game. At this point, the game was what, 17 months out? (Was it feb 2013?) Things change in development within a few months, let alone a year and a half. It would also make sense that concept art for a 10-year franchise would not all show up in the first year.

I was thinking specifically about the vidoc Bungie produced to announce the game.

implied many things without directly stating them

Maybe you just read into the things?

Well clearly, I did. What I'm saying is that I think Bungie intentionally marketed the game in such a way that people would do this. By creating an information vacuum and making a series of incredibly vague and lofty promises about the nature of the game, they encouraged this kind of insane speculation.

I am also of the personal belief that the conclusions I drew were purposely implied in the marketing, as it's clear that I am not the only one who drew those conclusions. I think Bungie sincerely wanted to make a game that lived up to those promises as well, but that they couldn't go through with it for whatever reason.

Or maybe they're just really, really bad at marketing. This kind of happened with the Halo games as well. Non-fans of the series have noted that the trailers and commercials are always way more cinematic and exciting than the game itself.

I don't know for sure. I do know that I am far from the only one to have drawn conclusions about the game based on Bungie's marketing, only to be let down by the finished product. Take from that what you will. Maybe that simply means that everyone read too much into Bungie's early comments, but then there is still a problem because Bungie failed at communicating. No matter how you slice it, there was a major failure of communication.

It feels small.

Ooh, I have to completely disagree there. It feels large--the locations are big, and more importantly, quite visually distinct.

The locations are physically large, but they are also mostly hollow. What can you actually do in Patrol mode? The same five basic mission types and no meaningful exploration.

Really? What other "standard FPS" game has this much content? It feels like it has more than Reach and I always thought Reach had a lot of content. Stories, Competitive MP, Strikes, the Tower, the Raid, explore, bounties, etc...

Story = campaign. Destiny's is short and void of story. Like most FPS games.
Competitive = competitive. Destiny's offers a similar variety of maps and modes compared to most FPS games.
Strikes = Firefight / Horde. Like most FPS games.
Tower and the Raid are unique.
Bounties are just challenges. They're "fake content" - permutations of existing categories.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35934 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35934 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:10:43 +0000 Destinycar15
"Players help shape the world"? (reply)

shown concept art of several locations ... as part of the marketing for this game

A lot of that concept art was shown at the GDC panel which was talking about how they had been creating the game. At this point, the game was what, 17 months out? (Was it feb 2013?) Things change in development within a few months, let alone a year and a half. It would also make sense that concept art for a 10-year franchise would not all show up in the first year.

implied many things without directly stating them

Maybe you just read into the things?

It feels small.

Ooh, I have to completely disagree there. It feels large--the locations are big, and more importantly, quite visually distinct.

In fact, it has about as much content as a standard FPS game

Really? What other "standard FPS" game has this much content? It feels like it has more than Reach and I always thought Reach had a lot of content. Stories, Competitive MP, Strikes, the Tower, the Raid, explore, bounties, etc...

I never expected .. I envisioned ... I suspected ... I did think

It seems that a lot of the grief you're feeling comes from your expectations.


I hope you can enjoy the game.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35915 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35915 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:17:31 +0000 Destinymarmot 1333
"Players help shape the world"? (reply) That dude makes me happy.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35913 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35913 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:10:55 +0000 Destinycar15
"Players help shape the world"? (reply) Did we learn nothing from how Bungie responded to the fans during the Halo days? The things we do and the things we say determine what they do next.

If one thing is more popular then something else, then that mode or what have you will get the attention. We all (as far as I can tell) enjoyed the mission "The Sword of Crota", and I wouldn't be surprised if they made more missions like that as a result of us saying "I liked this. It was fun."

We help shape the world, which they can change in practically any way at any time, with the data we create from playing. They take the data that we make and go "How do we make this better". Then after that - Sage nerfs it.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35906 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35906 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:59:00 +0000 DestinyINSANEdrive
;) (reply) https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35904 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35904 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:56:58 +0000 Destinyrliebherr Agile (reply)

Seems to me like Bungie is trying to move from Waterfall-style development to a more Agile-style development approach. In other words, instead of doing a bunch of big up-front design for the game and each expansion (which they still do some of I'm sure), they are moving towards an approach where they are constantly updating the game.

This is where my mind went as well. With Destiny, I think we're gonna see Bungie react more expediently to community feedback.

- CC

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35896 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35896 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:37:42 +0000 DestinyCaneCutter
Agile (reply) I have these hopes as well. My confidence that they will come to fruition just isn't as high as it is for many of you.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35886 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35886 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:47:25 +0000 Destinycar15
Agile (reply) You've done a good job articulating my hopes. Fingers and toes crossed.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35885 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35885 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:44:26 +0000 DestinyKermit
Agreed.. (reply) https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35884 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35884 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:44:15 +0000 DestinyRagashingo "Players help shape the world"? (reply) I didn't mean that. Destiny was advertised as a huge epic experience focused on exploration. We were told that the Solar System was our sandbox and shown concept art of several locations on Earth, along with Saturn, Europa, and derelict ships. I'm sure we'll visit all of those places eventually, but showing them to us as part of the marketing for this game heavily implied that they would be included in this game. And that's what a lot of the marketing was like, in retrospect; Bungie heavily implied many things without directly stating them. I guess they figured they could get away with implying things and then, when people complained about the missing content, they could point back and say "We never actually promised any of that!"

(Okay, I'm being slightly unfair. It wasn't all Bungie. A lot of it was Activision.)

The final game provides four playable spaces and offers mostly linear (and mostly identical) Dinklebot escort missions. It feels small. In fact, it has about as much content as a standard FPS game, not the epic quantity that was heavily implied in the marketing. It is not the experience that was advertised.

I never expected an epic Mass Effect style narrative, especially not with the open mission structure that I envisioned for the game. I suspected that much of the "meat" of the story would be told in supplemental media (i.e. the Grimoire). However, I did think we were going to get something more complete than what we ended up with. Almost every story point of interest, along with all of the back story and character motivations, is buried in the Grimoire.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35883 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35883 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:37:50 +0000 Destinycar15
Agile (reply) Seems to me like Bungie is trying to move from Waterfall-style development to a more Agile-style development approach. In other words, instead of doing a bunch of big up-front design for the game and each expansion (which they still do some of I'm sure), they are moving towards an approach where they are constantly updating the game.

(Assumptions below, we'll see how it pans out in reality)

One possible example of this might show up soon in the "Queens Wrath" event. I'm thinking that will introduce additional "story" type missions that take place in the same existing geometry. It's not a full expansion because of it's limited scope, but it still adds new things to the game for players to do so they keep coming back. Plus, because Bungie has set up the game to be easier to adjust and update on-the-fly they can keep an eye on how things are working out for players and make game-balancing decisions without releasing a whole new game. Halo Reach had a similar setup where 343 was able to make some adjustments to the gameplay after release. Destiny has even more capabilities for adjustments.

A lot of people have been asking questions about why Destiny took so long to develop. I think it's because they've been building a lot of foundational architecture to support this kind of stuff. In addition to building a new engine that is capable of running on multiple platforms, they've had to build a lot of support tools to let them update the game much more dynamically than in the past.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35882 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35882 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:24:40 +0000 DestinyBlackt1g3r
Well, not yet. (reply)

Otherwise, they were just lying to our faces, or being deliberately vague to foster false impressions of the game and sell mad unitz.


They did say we could go to Saturn. But you can't.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=30911

Did you see the Grim cards for Saturn? I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't found them (tell you the truth, I have no idea where I did, I just noticed I had them), but it hints at some environments we haven't encountered yet. Same for Jupiter.

Also an asteroid field.

No mentions or slots for Pluto, Neptune, or various moons yet. Probably see that stuff in Destiny 3 or DLC pack 47 yadda yadda yadda.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35866 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35866 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:26:48 +0000 DestinyRevenant1988
"Players help shape the world"? (reply)

Lets not get TOO negative.


I'm sorry. I'm just really jaded at the moment. This game, while fun, is nothing at all like it was advertised to be.

A solid foundation with weak architecture.

They advertised it as this romp around a bunch of world with your friends shooting things with the backdrop of this mysterious sci-fi fantasy. I didn't get much of a "this has a really impactful narrative" or "this is an amazing solo adventure" from the advertising. Hell, I think the "Become Legend" trailer super accurately described the game.

And to the earlier point, I took "players help shape the world" as to mean they will watch every metric and read comments and that we'll see more missions and refinements to the game after release than we have EVER seen before in a Bungie game. I'm hoping that an in game grimoire gets added and that's something I would have never expected them to change post-release before Destiny.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35844 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35844 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:12:02 +0000 Destinykidtsunami
"Players help shape the world"? (reply)

Lets not get TOO negative.

I'm sorry. I'm just really jaded at the moment. This game, while fun, is nothing at all like it was advertised to be.

A solid foundation with weak architecture.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35842 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35842 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:17:33 +0000 Destinycar15
"Players help shape the world"? (reply)

Otherwise, they were just lying to our faces, or being deliberately vague to foster false impressions of the game and sell mad unitz.

They did say we could go to Saturn. But you can't.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=30911

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35839 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35839 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 06:27:30 +0000 DestinyCody Miller
"Players help shape the world"? (reply) Or something changed during development. Lets not get TOO negative.

I kind of thought it meant some kind of economy system or something, obviously not since we can't even trade though.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35838 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35838 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 06:24:12 +0000 DestinySIX min WHISTLE
"Players help shape the world"? (reply) To what extent do we even have the ability to "create" fiction in this game? It seems like a fairly passive story to me...

I think Bungie was just being figurative. They meant we would "create" our own stories of fun times with our fellow Guardians.

Otherwise, they were just lying to our faces, or being deliberately vague to foster false impressions of the game and sell mad unitz.

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35836 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35836 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 05:53:04 +0000 Destinycar15
"Players help shape the world"? I remember in one of the earlier vidocs (it might have been the 20th anniversary doc they did), someone talked about how players would help to shape the world of their next game. People even speculated that that was literal, and people would be able to do stuff like build and share their own planets.

Now that the game's out... I'm not seeing it. Sure, we occupy the space. We fill the game world with life, but as far as helping to shape it, where does that come in? Is that why so much in this game is vague, because we're literally supposed to create the fiction ourselves to a certain extent? Or did Bungie just mean that we would populate the game, and just worded it much too grandiose?

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https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35835 https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=35835 Mon, 15 Sep 2014 05:50:41 +0000 DestinyPostmortem