Oh, and Left Left Left Right Right Right Up Up Up.

Power Overwhelming

Cheese Steak Jimmy's

IDKFA

/Giveall

And Ragashingo--Up Up Down Down UP UP UP UP!

Oh, and Left Left Left Right Right Right Up Up Up.

ABCBCACAB

B A Down, B A Down, Left Up C

ABACABB

Not sure about Cody, but I highly support the use of cheat codes. :)

You like...just a second ago...earlier in this thread...are you trolling...I don't even?

Only if you consider a cheat code, something the devs programed in to be used by players (especially in the case of the GTA series), the same as physically modifying a controller to play a game while you are not around.

Back when I was a kid I haggled my parents to call the Sega of America pay per minute hotline to get the cheat codes to Sonic the Hedgehog 2. (Level Select: 19, 65,9,17, Hold A, Press Start, Select 1 Player, Debug Mode: 1,9,9,2,1,1,2,4 then Super Sonic: 4,1,2,6. From memory. 20+ years later.) I have the GTA IV codes written down. I used cheat codes in Sim City 2000. Those are just my favorite examples.

I would never find or construct a way to advance by not playing a game.

My personal feelings on this are: as long as it's single player, whom could it harm? He levels up a character to 20 in x number of hours--he still has to raid, strike and Cruciclast his way to better armor and stuff. He's just shortcutting the unnecessary B.S. we have to do to avoid the difficulty curve again. I don't see anything wrong with it.

And Ragashingo--Up Up Down Down UP UP UP UP!

Oh, and Left Left Left Right Right Right Up Up Up.

I was pleasantly surprised last night when it turned out that everybody in our Raid group had one, and boy did it change the experience.

Unrelated to the conversation, but man do I wish I'd recorded that. Watching a fleet of Gjallarhorn rockets hit a single target at the same time is one of the more epic things I've seen playing Destiny :)

I don't know all the answers. It's going to be different for PvE and PvP, which is also why it's an extra handicap given that weapons have to not be overpowered in either.

Or, maybe they found a happy medium.

I would start by having fewer weapons. A lot fewer. If you look at Halo 1, every weapon except the needler has a place in the game and a spot where it's useful. Of course in Multiplayer the pistol dominated.

And here we arrive at the sandbox problem again. It doesn't matter how small or large the sandbox is, there will always be some weapons that excel overall that a certain contingent of players will gravitate towards. A larger sandbox (with a proportionally larger pool of ideally-performing weapons) is going to allow for more players to play at that level without forcing them to use a specific weapon.

To Bungie's credit, the types of weapons seem relatively equal in PvP, pulse rifles excepted. There's a reason to use fusion rifles over shotguns for example. So the balancing would have to be making sure that no fusion rifle is better in every situation than any other fusion rifle.

Suuuure...but you still have the sandbox problem within each class of weapon. There will still be only a slim handful that anybody chooses to use. The fact that there is a range of weapon classes mitigates this, to degree, as each class of weapon will have some overlap with other weapon classes.

It's a super hard job, but the bottom line would be fewer weapons, more differences between weapons, and more diversity of situations in both PvE and PvP to bring out the usefulness of those differences. The differences have to manifest themselves in advantages in common situations. This is probably easier in PvE, which is why in my world regular crucible would be Quartermaster gear only, and Iron banner when you bring your own guns in. (However Iron banner would always be running).

Right, so fewer and more widely differentiated weapons isn't going to happen. That's not the game that was designed here. I will, however, take a second to posit that we need to see new weapon classes and more interesting weapon behaviors out of them in future expansions (think Grenade Launcher heavies, various alien faction weapons, etc), as even during the beta there was talk of the current stable of weapon classes feeling a bit...standard.

I think differentiating the weapon tasking is not only impossible, but would be far less fun than what we deal with now. More differentiation would turn it into a clear cut rock-paper-scissors scheme for weapon selection. That certainly works in some games (like Halo), but this isn't one of them.

Overall, I think the best possible balance has been struck between how weapons and their specific traits work between PvP, PVE, and in the Iron Banner. The current system doesn't force you to level your gear in each of those modes independently, it factors in the extra materials investment where appropriate, and it caters to the largest body of players possible without conferring unfair advantage. If Iron Banner ran all the time, I'd warrant most players interested in PvP would end up there, where ALL material investment confers advantages, and vanilla crucible would be largely shunned except by those who don't normally run PvP (unless they have bounties that demand it). I don't think many folks would end up bringing less-levelled gear in, as they'd get crushed by the polished killers with highly tweaked builds.

As it stands with special events occurring periodically, the community is focused on joint activities during those times and left to roam at their own discretion at others. I don't think Iron Banner or the Queen's Wrath bounties would hold as much allure if the loot those vendors hawk was available whenever the player liked. Sure, one could argue that this is artificial investment-gaming, but I'm not seeing microtransactions skewing ingame behavior yet; nor do I feel like the big bad Activision is shamelessly cleaning out my wallet every time my console loads a new area.

~m

Nope. I noticed an odd thing last night. When I was running Nightfall last night with Cruel and Cody, I simply switched Characters and ran it. They all have different weapons at their disposal, and it's fun to adapt and push through... Cody spent about ten minutes each time swapping over all of his gear between his identical Hunters, and by the time he was done and joining us, we were already done killing the Ogre right before Crota. He missed out on over half of the Nightfall just to optimize his characters to guarantee that he would have his "correct version of fun." despite the fact that the argument could be made that he was "wasting people's time" and "forcing the game to take longer"... Something that he claims to avoid.

Problem avoided if gear stayed in the vault (AKA inventory). He could equip his perfect gear set on all three hunters once and then not have to do anything again until he picked up a better piece of gear.

No waiting around for Cody. Yay!

I too agree. My Warlock alone has three distinct loadouts that I like to run, all play differently from one another, and it's frustrating sometimes to realize that I don't have the "right" loadout equipped, since I'll have to either adjust my entire strategy, or spend time in the menus swapping out perks and gear...

With a better vault you could switch faster - you could avoid the mini-game where you shuffle between characters and put stuff into and out of the vault to avoid space limitations. So things would be quicker on the days when you want to switch gear.

That doesn't help you switch perks so it would be nice if the game had loadouts. I imagine that you select a Create Loadout button and it displays a page that lets you:

• name the loadout
  
• select an image for it
  
• opt out of subclass/perk attributes

Then when you click create it saves the current setup of an alt to a loadout.

Maybe you could use the navigator to associate a loadout with a location, if you were feeling really lazy and stuck in your ways. You could have specific layouts based on:

• planet patrol
  
• story mission
  
• strike
  
• raid

What is this show and where can I watch it?

It's called Gravity Falls, and is up there with the Avatar series as possibly the best Western-animated series to ever yes.

It's actually incredibly clever, with a ton of depth and stuff to mull and puzzle over. There are hidden messages and subliminal things in each episode...

Also, the theme song is catchy as heck...

(Also, Linda Cardellini voices one of the characters, and she was my Ellen Page before there was Ellen Page.)

Well, working to have a 36 chest from Xur and Iron Banner gauntlets helped free up the need for 42 shards on My Hunter alone... Those shards go to my Titan. I also converted every single energy into Shards. It's all about managing your resources. But then, we already know you have trouble with that. ;)

Ah I see, that makes sense. But you know I can't convert shit since that requires Eris level 4 and I'm only 3.

I really don't put too much time into Destiny (the past week has been primarily Iron Banner and Warframe), but it's pretty irrelevant, as the rate at which one acquires Radiant Shards/Energy isn't dependent on time, but simply completing three Crota runs over the course of seven days, which I'm sure you do on a regular basis. That in mind, having hit level 4 with Eris, I have more than enough Shards for all three characters to hit 32 (though the class-specific materials hold me back), so someone like you should already have more shards than you know what to do with, unless you're holding on to all of the energies so that you can level every single weapon you get from the raid, in which case, once again, it's your fault that you're not 30 with every character.

I think I have 8 radiant shards right now having hit 32, and I'm only level 3 with Eris. How you have enough Shards to level three characters is completely beyond me!

Well, working to have a 36 chest from Xur and Iron Banner gauntlets helped free up the need for 42 shards on My Hunter alone... Those shards go to my Titan. I also converted every single energy into Shards. It's all about managing your resources. But then, we already know you have trouble with that. ;)

I really don't put too much time into Destiny (the past week has been primarily Iron Banner and Warframe), but it's pretty irrelevant, as the rate at which one acquires Radiant Shards/Energy isn't dependent on time, but simply completing three Crota runs over the course of seven days, which I'm sure you do on a regular basis. That in mind, having hit level 4 with Eris, I have more than enough Shards for all three characters to hit 32 (though the class-specific materials hold me back), so someone like you should already have more shards than you know what to do with, unless you're holding on to all of the energies so that you can level every single weapon you get from the raid, in which case, once again, it's your fault that you're not 30 with every character.

I think I have 8 radiant shards right now having hit 32, and I'm only level 3 with Eris. How you have enough Shards to level three characters is completely beyond me!

Also, you said yourself that rolling three characters has given you tons of raid gear. I don't see why you can't simply leave it on your alts. Completely unleveled, it still gets you to 30...

This I can answer. It's better to break them down into radiant materials, to level up the things that matter. I don't have the time, nor the inclination to put as much time as you do into Destiny. Maintaining one set of gear is simply head over heels easier and less time consuming than maintaining 1 plus 2 partial even.

I really don't put too much time into Destiny (the past week has been primarily Iron Banner and Warframe), but it's pretty irrelevant, as the rate at which one acquires Radiant Shards/Energy isn't dependent on time, but simply completing three Crota runs over the course of seven days, which I'm sure you do on a regular basis. That in mind, having hit level 4 with Eris, I have more than enough Shards for all three characters to hit 32 (though the class-specific materials hold me back), so someone like you should already have more shards than you know what to do with, unless you're holding on to all of the energies so that you can level every single weapon you get from the raid, in which case, once again, it's your fault that you're not 30 with every character.

-Disciple

How would you fix the Destiny sandbox so that there are no top-tier weapons?

I don't know all the answers. It's going to be different for PvE and PvP, which is also why it's an extra handicap given that weapons have to not be overpowered in either.

I would start by having fewer weapons. A lot fewer. If you look at Halo 1, every weapon except the needler has a place in the game and a spot where it's useful. Of course in Multiplayer the pistol dominated.

To Bungie's credit, the types of weapons seem relatively equal in PvP, pulse rifles excepted. There's a reason to use fusion rifles over shotguns for example. So the balancing would have to be making sure that no fusion rifle is better in every situation than any other fusion rifle.

It's a super hard job, but the bottom line would be fewer weapons, more differences between weapons, and more diversity of situations in both PvE and PvP to bring out the usefulness of those differences. The differences have to manifest themselves in advantages in common situations. This is probably easier in PvE, which is why in my world regular crucible would be Quartermaster gear only, and Iron banner when you bring your own guns in. (However Iron banner would always be running).

Munky was telling me that as more and more people get Hawkmoon, the more and more likely it is that Bungie will nerf it because it's so dominating in crucible, and everybody would use it.

Because it kills the sandbox. If you were to make weapons a guaranteed drop in any activity, people would gravitate only towards the top-tier weapons, and nothing else. You contradict yourself. On the one hand, you want to be guaranteed a Mythoclast for killing a hard Atheon, but on the other hand you complained that too many people were getting Mythoclasts... Wouldn't one problem cause/be a result of the other?

Only because the Mythoclast was designed with the intent that it be ultra rare. If a lot of people were expected to get it, it would have been designed to better fit in with the rest of the weapons. That's the whole point of my post. Doing the weapons right would mean redesigning them.

So let's look at the reality of how the game is, rather than the idealized version that you claim could exist in this game. How would you have balanced the Mythoclast in a way that would not fundamentally change what it is while making it both more powerful, and balanced in the game? Clearly you know something that no developer knows.

Again, a contradiction. Having the highest-tier weapons be a much easier reward would lead to a much narrower arsenal. Who would use any Hand Cannon besides TLW and Hawkmoon? Who would use any sniper besides Praedyth's Revenge/Ice Breaker? Who would use any shotgun besides 4th Horseman or Swordbreaker? Gjallarhorn, Zombie Apocalypse, or Jolder's Hammer?

Only if Bungie left things the way they are. The point, was that if the weapons were all obtainable in some non random fashion, Bungie would have to redesign them precisely so the situation you state does not arise. Hawkmoon is as dominating as it is because it's rare. There would ideally be no "top tier" weapons. There would be fewer weapons, with each being good for different scenarios, or cater to different playstyles. That's probably impossible, but many games have come very close.

No matter how small the sanbox is, or how much reiteration is intended to balance the sandbox, there will always be top-tier weapons.

Take Call of Duty, for example. No matter what game you play, any small tweak in the annual update results in top-tier weapons. The Models, the FAMAS, the AKS, the SVU... They are the only things that the "pros" use, and if they get nerfed even a bit, the balance of power shifts; not to the rest of the sandbox, but to another weapon that edges out the competition.

Even Warframe, a game where players themselves can customize, tweak, overhaul, and transform every single weapon in the game has "top-tier weapons". Boltor Prime, Dread, Soma, Castanas, Dragon Nikana... "Pro"players claim that you can't succeed without these, and as such, the masses follow, and though the game has a ridiculously expansive sandbox (Rifles, Bows, Snipers, Hand Cannons, dual-wielded shotguns, rocket-pistols, lasers, Power saws, Greatswords, whips, axes, claws, gauntlets, hammers, staffs, daggers, etc...), people feel like they need to have a specific "top-tier" loadout to succeed. And the crazy thing is that all of the weapons not only have very subtly nuanced and carefully balanced stats, they're all designed to appeal to any playstyle imaginable, and people don't take advantage of it. It's all "What do the pros use", and even Halo proved this, with the stupid love of the sandbox-killing BR.

How would you fix the Destiny sandbox so that there are no top-tier weapons?

Also, you said yourself that rolling three characters has given you tons of raid gear. I don't see why you can't simply leave it on your alts. Completely unleveled, it still gets you to 30...

This I can answer. It's better to break them down into radiant materials, to level up the things that matter. I don't have the time, nor the inclination to put as much time as you do into Destiny. Maintaining one set of gear is simply head over heels easier and less time consuming than maintaining 1 plus 2 partial even.